Converting .BUP, .IFO, .VOB files for iDVD

[GregN]

After reading some threads on this forum, I'm getting the impression (or some Mac users have out-and-out said it) that you're better off using a PC if you wish to take recordings from a standalone recorder and "gussy" them up with editing and thumbnails, etc. You don't have as many hoops to jump through and/or there are less degrading reconversions involved. I don't want "my stuff still looks like VHS quality", as cbkilner states below. I want better!

Am I getting the correct picture? Or with the links for programs provided at the bottom of cbkilner's post, can the Mac platform limitations be overcome to provide just as convenient and just as good image quality afterall?

As a longtime PC user and seriously considering Mac converter, the negative vibe I'm getting from perusing this forum has bummed me out! Tell me I'm wrong!!!

Dear Newbie:

If you have a MiniDV camera, it might have an analog-to-DV passthru that you can use between your DVD player and your iMac to transfer the TV shows to iMovie for editing, then iDVD for burning the edited material.

This is sort of the hardware equivalent of DVDxDV that I use when I need to edit an unecrypted DVD. There is a slight quality loss due to all the conversions (MPEG2-to-analog-to-DV-back to-MPEG2), but my stuff still looks VHS quality.

Also, I know that there are programs that can cut/splice edit MPEG2 files, which would help preserve the quality of the MPEG2 material:
http://www.versiontracker.com/dyn/moreinfo/macosx/15987
http://www.mpeg2works.2ya.com/

[pixeljammedia]

After reading some threads on this forum, I'm getting the impression (or some Mac users have out-and-out said it) that you're better off using a PC if you wish to take recordings from a standalone recorder and "gussy" them up with editing and thumbnails, etc. You don't have as many hoops to jump through and/or there are less degrading reconversions involved. I don't want "my stuff still looks like VHS quality", as cbkilner states below. I want better!

Am I getting the correct picture? Or with the links for programs provided at the bottom of cbkilner's post, can the Mac platform limitations be overcome to provide just as convenient and just as good image quality afterall?

As a longtime PC user and seriously considering Mac converter, the negative vibe I'm getting from perusing this forum has bummed me out! Tell me I'm wrong!!!

Okay, you're wrong. This place has taught me more about Mac video conversion than any other place on the web. If we posters at times lose patience it isn't because we're negative it is simply because there are only a handful of posters who take it upon themselves to help. The PC world has a huge thronging mob. It is a marketplace thing. When the ten or so active posters type away, they see the same questions over and over again. It can get annoying. I'll take this last post of yours at face value and try to believe it isn't a "PC's are better and you are all mean post."

There is no reason why PCs will do a better job at this than Macs. The problem with editing mpegs is that you cannpt cut on non b-frame sections without experiencing problems at the point of edit. This is due to the mpeg format and is true regardless of platform. Using DV allows it to be frame-by-frame editable. With that said, there are programs that cut mpegs available. Then just run straight to Sizzle, build menus, and you have a freeware menued dvd with no loss. If you need more control in editing then we address those steps as we go.

As for the quality of DVD menus etc. I would put DVD Studio Pro up against anything on the PC, and Sizzle up against any freeware DVD mastering on the Wintel platform. In the end tools are tools, computers are computers and a rose is a rose is a rose. I use Macs because they make me more productive. I am more comfortable in the OS X encironment and using FCP and DVDSP than I would be if you gave me Vegas and Ulead or whatever else is out there on a Wintel PC. Use what makes you comfortable and come here with any questions you have about video. What more can you ask for?

[newbie the newbie]

Whoa go PixelJam!

Hey Greg the reason why I've got a Mac is because I need it for the designing tools And besides! I'm definately in LOVE with my iMac PowerG4....... it's so much more gorgeous than any IBM computer you can get!

This DVD thing is not for income purposes- just a really good way to compile my TV-Recordings :P

And PixelJam no one really mentions this, but you gurus do wonders to help newbies in the field and we sure appreciate it. I'd like you to know how much your input benefited me

[GregN]

I'll take this last post of yours at face value and try to believe it isn't a "PC's are better and you are all mean post."

lol. Since checking out a couple different websites recently, I've definitely picked up on the whole PC vs. Mac contentiousness. Mine is indeed an honest plea for clarification. Maybe I misinterpreted the couple Mac user comments here (that I took as actually slighting the Mac for DVD conversion and 'tweaking' work, in certain regards). And maybe the fact that I'm not as familiar with some of the terminology, I'm imagining the processes of Mac video conversion to be more complicated or requiring more steps than what I've been reading regarding the PC processes/programs.

On that platform, it seems a little more cut 'n dried. Take a good authoring program like TMPGEnc DVD Author and with it, edit, create chapters and menus, all without any reconversions necessary. Badda bang badda boom.

But if I'm understanding you correctly, if you want PERFECT or EXACT edits with Mac created DVDs, you need to convert to DV first, whereas, the the PC platform can only be nearly perfect in this regard. If you don't mind less than absolutely perfect edits, you can achieve the same PC quality results on the Mac with other Mac programs and not have to resort to any recodings along the way. Correct me if I'm wrong.

As far as menus are concerned, as long as they are at least roughly comparable in capabilities, I'm fine with that. Your vigorous response on that is point is good enough for me.

My main things are:

1) wanting to work in whichever platform is least cumbersome, confusing, and time consuming. I know Macs in general have that reputation over PC, but I wanted to ensure that this was true in the realm of DVD work as well.

2) optimal image quality, meaning no, or at least fewer, reconversion scenarios.

3) see numbers 1 & 2. :P

[GregN]

I'm definately in LOVE with my iMac PowerG4....... it's so much more gorgeous than any IBM computer you can get!

yes, they sure are perty!

This DVD thing is not for income purposes- just a really good way to compile my TV-Recordings :P

Somewhat similarly, I want something that will allow me to compensate for any deficiencies of my standalone DVD recorder. Further editing, possible image and sound enhancements, PAL/NTSC conversions, etc.

And PixelJam no one really mentions this, but you gurus do wonders to help newbies in the field and we sure appreciate it.

mega-ditto

[newbie the newbie]

Hey Greg!
That's exactly what I'm doing! It's just that............ lol you put it in a much more "pro-sounding" way..... forgive the down-to-earthness!
But have you actually started on your DVD-making quest yet? I'd like to know what steps you're doing to get it all done up.

[GregN]

Well, newbie squared.. I'm still in full-on research mode. Or shall I say, indecisive mode!

My goals are to, at first, convert some VHS tapes to DVD, improving their quality as best as humanly possible. I will trade or borrow out these and future DVDs as well, sometimes with people in other countries. Beyond that, using DVDs as the medium to replace my VHS tapes for everyday recording work. So, first on the agenda.. picking a standalone DVDR. The two I'm considering are the Panasonic E85H and the new Toshiba unit. The JVC 30-something sounds like a STUD recorder, but there is no word of possibly availability in the US of A.

The first two units have many great qualities, but each has a major flaw or two. So I'm wrestling with that, and whether or not these flaws can be compensated for later on (for those really important dvds) with a Mac or a PC. Issues pertaining to 16:9 flagging, audio level controls, and a black level problem that hampers the Toshiba unit (which is otherwise considered just about perfect).

As far as what I need from a computer in general? The typical stuff.. wordprocessing, websurfing, etc. Just looking for the most elegant and least headache-inducing platform. As long as I can communicate with PC or pass things back 'n forth between the two platforms, I like the notion of switching to Mac for the litany of commonly cited reasons. My Micron PC is just about ready for the scrapyards, and at first I assumed my usual, "ok, so which PC should I get next?", kneejerk stance. But after doing a little research, it now seems like a viable option to switch platforms.

Anyway.. that's where my head is at. I'm sure I told you much more than you wanted to know!

forgive the down-to-earthness!

It should be "down-to-earthedness". Learn to speak proper english before posting to a forum!

[newbie the newbie]

Lol Greg I'm out of school- stopped learning English- and I'm very content with it right now thank you :P ! Hahaha..... thanks for the concern though you weasel... Actually it's been some time since I've encountered a Shakespearean.... "Oh.. how thine exuberance art intoxicating..." phrase....lol But that's off the topic so I have to get back on track here...


In all seriousness, though (and this is now not just for Greg but for all you guys reading)- I still need help in this area. Ever since PixelJam's post I'm suddenly aware that a lot of the pros might actually find my elementary questions irksome . In being considerate I think it's fair that if you are irritated, then just don't reply.

But I'm sure that many reading are probably in the newbie/recent newbie graduates/ semi-newbie level, and you guys probably have a lot of practical input that comes with the learning curve. Feel free to dump whatever you want on me because I've got lots to learn and I'm open .


SO! In trying to achieve my aim, here's what I'm doing now. Correct me if I'm off:

1) Record TV Programs onto blanks using my DVD Recorder

2) Insert Recorded-DVD into iMac, use VLC to see what VOBs I want to extract

3) Once I've found the one that I want, I use Mpeg2Works to demux it onto my HD, one VOB at a time.

4) That leaves me with a .ac3 audio file and a .m2v file. iDVD and iMovie can't accept both and so they have to be converted. The .ac3 is converted using MadDecoder (right? I haven't done this yet but I'm more or less sure that this is the way to do it) and the .m2v is converted using DiVA. Or is it Export2QT?


Now this is the part that I'm quite stuck.


5) Currently I'm using DiVA to convert the .m2v into DV, .............simlpy because I don't understand what any of the other format options mean!!! In the first place is this a right move? Are there any other formats iMovie/iDVD accepts that are better? Btw I've ordered DVD Studio Pro and it's being delivered now- do you know if it accepts .m2v?

6) And here's my brick wall. I'd like to squeeze as many TV Recordings as I can into one single DVD, and that means that I'd really like to keep my 240MB file as a 240MB file. DiVA seems to increase the file size, and as I've learnt, that's normal.


Now is this what's meant to follow?
7) keep the converted 240MB file in its DV form (which is now 3 gigs).

8) import into iMovie to edit. iMovie will reject it because 3GB is too big to be handled.

9) Cut the file in two pieces using QT Pro so that it can NOW be handled.

10) Edit the pieces in iMovie, export to iDVD.

11) Organise DVD layout as normal. When I try burning, iDVD is going to

...convert and compress my huge DV file back into a small .m2v format,
...convert my .aiff back into .ac3, and
...remux that whole lot into a .vob so that it can be understood by my DVD Player?


I really think there's a lot of wasted time and energy going into all this "convert-convert" business. Look at how many SWs I need (they're in bold)! I just want to edit my recordings, pretty 'em up, and compile them into a pro-looking DVD. I should have asked this before.... Is there an app that just handles the .vobs straight-on? Or at least the .m2vs and .ac3s straight?

Can DVDSPro do that?

[pixeljammedia]

Ever since PixelJam's post I'm suddenly aware that a lot of the pros might actually find my elementary questions irksome . In being considerate I think it's fair that if you are irritated, then just don't reply.

What irritates me is laziness. If you have honestly searched the forum and read the stickies then I will answer your questions happily. If it has been asked many times before then yes I get annoyed. I am especially annoyed when someone takes the time to answer and the question asker doesn't follow the advice and complains about his inability to solve his problem. Why are you asking if you don't want to read the posts answering you?

But I'm sure that many reading are probably in the newbie/recent newbie graduates/ semi-newbie level, and you guys probably have a lot of practical input that comes with the learning curve. Feel free to dump whatever you want on me because I've got lots to learn and I'm open .


SO! In trying to achieve my aim, here's what I'm doing now. Correct me if I'm off:

1) Record TV Programs onto blanks using my DVD Recorder

2) Insert Recorded-DVD into iMac, use VLC to see what VOBs I want to extract

3) Once I've found the one that I want, I use Mpeg2Works to demux it onto my HD, one VOB at a time.

4) That leaves me with a .ac3 audio file and a .m2v file. iDVD and iMovie can't accept both and so they have to be converted. The .ac3 is converted using MadDecoder (right? I haven't done this yet but I'm more or less sure that this is the way to do it) and the .m2v is converted using DiVA. Or is it Export2QT?

(a) MAC3Dec is my decoder of choice (b) Diva will do fine..

Now this is the part that I'm quite stuck.


5) Currently I'm using DiVA to convert the .m2v into DV, .............simlpy because I don't understand what any of the other format options mean!!! In the first place is this a right move? Are there any other formats iMovie/iDVD accepts that are better? Btw I've ordered DVD Studio Pro and it's being delivered now- do you know if it accepts .m2v?

Pretty expensive purchase! Congratulations, you just bought the most versatile DVD authoring app available. It loves m2vs and ac3s. Have fun!

6) And here's my brick wall. I'd like to squeeze as many TV Recordings as I can into one single DVD, and that means that I'd really like to keep my 240MB file as a 240MB file. DiVA seems to increase the file size, and as I've learnt, that's normal.


Now is this what's meant to follow?
7) keep the converted 240MB file in its DV form (which is now 3 gigs).

8) import into iMovie to edit. iMovie will reject it because 3GB is too big to be handled.

Try these applescripts CLICK ME which automate splitting your dvs into smaller clips. I use FCP so don't really run into this limitation.

9) Cut the file in two pieces using QT Pro so that it can NOW be handled.

10) Edit the pieces in iMovie, export to iDVD.

11) Organise DVD layout as normal. When I try burning, iDVD is going to

...convert and compress my huge DV file back into a small .m2v format,
...convert my .aiff back into .ac3, and
...remux that whole lot into a .vob so that it can be understood by my DVD Player?

Almost perfect. iDVD uses PCm audio not AC3, you won't really notice the difference. You will also burn from iDVD.

I really think there's a lot of wasted time and energy going into all this "convert-convert" business. Look at how many SWs I need (they're in bold)! I just want to edit my recordings, pretty 'em up, and compile them into a pro-looking DVD. I should have asked this before.... Is there an app that just handles the .vobs straight-on? Or at least the .m2vs and .ac3s straight?

Can DVDSPro do that?

Yes DVDSP and Sizzle can both do that. Someone kept asking about editing so we gave you the process for that as well. If you want to use Gumby you can make timecode based mpeg trimmings and bring them into DVDSP or Sizzle. Frame by frame editing of mpegs is not possible.

[newbie the newbie]

Hahaha .... PixelJam I honestly love your K.I.S.S. attitude- haven't met a bloke like that in ages. Thanks for the immensely helpful input.

Pretty expensive purchase! Congratulations, you just bought the most versatile DVD authoring app available. It loves m2vs and ac3s. Have fun!

Wuh-oh... let's not get into the FINANCIAL INVESTMENT side... my wallet was so light it could make a feather jealous. PJam when you say "it loves m2vs and ac3s" could you do a bit of elaboration there? "It loves" as in..... DVDSP allows me to freely edit, import, export, compress etc m2vs and ac3s? You mean I can trim etc those m2vs like I would normally do in iMov?

If it can, then zipadee-doodah-zipadeeday I guess I don't have to worry shmick about those other apps!! This one does all the jobs!

P/S: To keep from asking unecessary qs I used the Search Tool option on what FCP and Gumby were for... but brother they aint there so don't go shootin' me if I'm asking now!

[GregN]

Wuh-oh... let's not get into the FINANCIAL INVESTMENT side... my wallet was so light it could make a feather jealous.

Lol. Not sure if it's yours, but that's a good one. Tells jokes, recites poetry.. you're a regular Renassaince Man (I'm pretty sure I botched the spelling on that, so here's your chance to get back at me for mocking you earilier. )

I'm trying to absorb some of the dialogue in this thread, as I might need to know some of this stuff down the line. Don't want to be the newbie-newbie the newbie, asking the same old tired questions.

[newbie the newbie]

Haha Thank you, thank you.... yes, I can proudly claim credit for that joke as it was 100% ORIGINAL. And

you're a regular Renassaince Man

Lol kinda reminds you of those stereotypical Three Musketeer movies, when the villian would twirl his mustache and slyly say, "Ahhh.... I've always admired a man with the flair and stylish intellect of the Renaissance..." Nyahahahahaha :P

Btw it's "RenaIssance". 8) I'm a nice guy so I'll save you the needling. Lol just remember the story about the pot calling the kettle black

And PJam you there? Were my questions too irritating?

[pixeljammedia]

I'm here, just had a long day. A family member of mine has recently left the ICU after 4.5 months of touch-and-go. I'm sure the stress of this has added to my generally exasperated demeanor, let me just say thank God for modern medicine and the caretakers who have (with no exaggeration) saved the life of someone dear to me. I spent today with her in rehab. She walked on the parallel bars, standing on her feet for the first time in a very long time. It kind of makes these squabbles seem piddling.

As for DVDSP 2 it encodes AC3s and M2Vs with the bundled programs A.Pack and Compressor. It can place chapter marks in mpegs add multiple video and audio tracks create motion menus, insert html links etc. Visit Apple's website, they have the whole feature list.

[newbie the newbie]

Hey guys sorry for the late post I'ws REALLY overloaded with work these few days...

PJam.....

.... you're the coolest guy in the West. I'm serious- you've got a storm blowing in your life and still you're taking the time to help others through this forum. Kudos! I'd say you've got more cool than Clint E in all those Westerners...

I'm waiting for DVDSP to arrive and till then I won't be disrupting the peace on thise site- so Adios, Amigos! :P

[pixeljammedia]

Just trying to get a sense of normalness in life. I find it generally therapeutic writing in forums and sharing knowledge. It keeps me occupied, and with her being an educator and a MacAddixt in her own right, this seems like a good community to be in. I doubt my coolness, after all, there are folks like geezerbuttz and Galactica writing code and tutorials and maybe someday I will as well, but for now I'll be satisfied with posting once in a while.

Enjoy DVDSP, I know that as a videographer I find it indispensable. It has paid for itself already, and one of these days I'll learn to script it well.

[newbie the newbie]

Hey Guys!

I've done hours of researching DVDSP tutorials from the net... done lots of work trying to learn this thing up..... only problem is...

WHY DON'T I SEEM TO HAVE THE 12 APPLE TEMPLATE SETS IN MY DVDSP???????

I know they're supposed to be smack there when you open it up and look under the "pallette"- but even after searching all the other possible avenues I've discovered they just aren't flippin' there!

Neither do I have any Apple Buttons, Text, Drop Zones, and Layouts!! In fact, I don't have anything but DVDSP itslef!!! What?! Software error?

I really need to get this done within two days. Can any of you guys upload your Apple City templates just for these two days? PJam? You ok with that?

And my QuickTimeMpeg2 app can't be installed. Because of that I can't import any .m2vs into DVDSP. Do you guys know where I can get this small app alone? MacUpdate doesn't seem to have it.