PAL DVDR to NTSC? (and easy way)

[n666]

Hey all... i've looked through some posts here on the forum and saw some good ones.. but all seem a bit too much work... i mean if there's nothing easier then i'll go thorugh all the steps and all.. but i kinda wanted to know if any of you know a good way to convert pal to ntsc dvdr....

i mean basically i got my VIDEO_TS folder with my VOBs BUPs and IFOs...

what's next?


thanks a bunch

[Skynet107]

You need to do some serious reading, do a forum search there are so many threads about format conversions it's not even funny. And no there is no easy way to do a standards conversion properly.

[hech54]

Easiest way?
I have all but given up(well....not really) on the computer conversion method. I just don't have the knowledge to tackle that right now. I use my converting DVD player and send it to my Philips DVD Recorder....then edit/add menu and chapter markers on my computer.
I've had great results...and I've had not-so-great results. A forum search IS the best way to learn the computer method for most people.

[DJRumpy]

The 'easiest' way is to patch the IFO headers to NTSC ones. Open each IFO with IFOEdit, and simply change the resolution from PAL to NTSC. Re-burn. The menu's may not work propely (some players will scroll them offscreen), but the video should look fine. Be sure to select 'Automatic Letterbox' on each IFO you change. This will ensure that the video is resized propely on an NTSC screen, regardless of it's actual height.

[dphirschler]

If it is PAL video, then it's not too difficult. I don't know about keeping menus though. Look at AVIsynth's documentation under "convertFPS". There is a sample PAL to NTSC script there. Be careful. I had to re-encode after I had the TFF instead of BFF. My bad. But the conversion looks great!


Darryl

[Gazorgan]

I use the easiest way. Absolutely guaranteed. Both my cheap players convert PAL to NTSC on the fly. What's a $40 APEX that litterally plays everything to the hours and hours you will spend, then be dissapointed with the Audio quality???

[DJRumpy]

If you reencode, no reason to be disappointed with the audio. The new AC3 freeware does a perfect job of resampling audio, and retaining the 5.1 sound. Check out AC3Machine.

The patch method takes only a few seconds (minus the burn time of course). You literally check a few boxes, and reburn the files. Cheaper than a new dvd, even if it is only $40

[Zetti]

I use the easiest way. Absolutely guaranteed. Both my cheap players convert PAL to NTSC on the fly. What's a $40 APEX that litterally plays everything to the hours and hours you will spend, then be dissapointed with the Audio quality???

Maybe the guy has the same "problem" as mine, I mean, I got PAL DVD-R's and NTSC DVD-R's, and sometimes I need to make a compilation with both stuff, extracting the movies from both and making a new one, so I have to choose a system (generally NTSC) and then I have to convert the PAL movies;

I've done the Xeesdenni's script, but final video isn't smooth on fast scenes;

There's a sw called "All video converter", that is supposed to make it on a button click, I've tried the demo, but it didn't work - converted only 2 seconds of movie, has anyone tried ?

Zetti

[dphirschler]

I've done the Xeesdenni's script, but final video isn't smooth on fast scenes;Zetti

Make sure your field order is right. I had the same problem. After I changed the field order in TMPGenc, it looked perfect. It is virtually indistinguishable from native NTSC video. I had to stick a "AssumeTFF" at the beginning of my script, and then in TMPGenc set BFF.


Darryl

[Zetti]

Make sure your field order is right. I had the same problem. After I changed the field order in TMPGenc, it looked perfect. It is virtually indistinguishable from native NTSC video. I had to stick a "AssumeTFF" at the beginning of my script, and then in TMPGenc set BFF.


Darryl

Darryl,

Thanks, you've got it, I hadn't thought about it, that might be the problem;

But, please, what do you mean by the "assume TFF" code ? What does it mean ?
How to set BFF at TMPGEnc ?

Could you please copy/paste your script ?

Thanks,

Zetti

[DJRumpy]

AssumeTTF is an AVISynth script command. It tells AVISynth to assume the top field is the first field in the video (a fairly safe bet for DVD sources). Srange that you would tell AVISynth that top field is first, while telling TMPGenc that the bottom field was first

If your doing AVISynth, it's just as easy to do everything with AVISynth. TMPGenc will also convert your video to PAL. I suppose it's a matter of preference.

You can extract your VOB's from the DVD. Load them into DVD2AVI, and save them as a project file (.D2V file). Using AVISynth, and MPEG2DEC.DLL, you can write a simple script to convert the output to PAL, and then use whatever encoder you prefer. If you extract your audio as wav, then you can just use the following AVISynth script to convert from PAL to NTSC

vid=MPEG2Source("yourdvd2aviprojectname.d2v",false )
aud=wavsource("yourwavfilename.wav")
audiodub(vid,aud)
AssumeFPS(23.976, True)
LancsozeResize(720,480)
ConvertToYUY2()

If you extract your audio as AC3, then you can convert it with AC3 Machine. The script would look like this in that case:

vid=MPEG2Source("yourdvd2aviprojectname.d2v",false )
AssumeFPS(23.976, True)
LancsozeResize(720,480)
ConvertToYUY2()

Of course, you'll have to modify the avi file name and audio wav name (if applicable) in the scripts above to make them work for you. If you drop that AVS script onto TMPGenc, it should properly detect which field is first. Verify by encoding a small 5 minute scene with a lot of action to see if you get any lurches in the video.

Remember that if you use TMPGenc to encode, in combination with the above AVISynth script, the script is essentially an NTSC stream, and TMPGenc should be setup as such. Don't select any PAL to NTSC options in TMPGenc if you use this method.

[FulciLives]

Hello DJRumpy

Haven't seen you post in a while so good to see you here!

I usually tell people to read this old thread (which I'm sure you remember):

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=160433

Anyways I've converted tons of PAL DVD discs to NTSC DVD-R since and always with good results

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Zetti]

Fulci,

While Xeesdeni's guides are very good, I'd suggest *Y-O-U* to write "The definitive PAL to NTSC conversion guide" and post it here

Someone has just pointed me that my problem probably lies on an inverse field order, this information for example isn't explicit on the original guide (thanks Xeesdeni for that), so maybe you could make a "definitive" version, explaining everything, so whenever someone asks here about it, people could just point your guide

Sounds to me you're absolutely specialized on that matter;

Thanks to all;

Zetti

[Zetti]

@ Fulci again,

You say that most PAL DVD's are progressive...what about PAL DVD-r's burned from PAL VHS in stand alone DVD Recorders ?

Thanks,

Zetti

[Zetti]

AssumeTTF is an AVISynth script command. It tells AVISynth to assume the top field is the first field in the video (a fairly safe bet for DVD sources).

Thanks DJRumpy, but should I just write "assumeTTF" at the very beggining of the AVSynth script ?

How should I set the field order in TMPGEnc then ?

Zetti

[DJRumpy]

Hiya Fulci! I've been away a while. Recent popular posts in the newsgroups have been causing a few hits on one of my guides, and e-mails from dvdrhelp, so I'm decided to float into the forum and see what's up.

Zetti, I agree, Fulci is an excellent source of information, but realize that not all details can be covered in a guide. I often get questions about 'why this didn't work', or 'this looks different than your's type questions, generated from users trying my guides. I know Xeesdeni has had good success with his guide, and it's an easy way for you to convert to PAL without knowing all of the technical details. You should PM him and ask if he can clarify on a point. He may add it in. You never know till you try. It's always a learning process. Field Order is just one of those things that you have to learn to understand, both why it's important to video, and how it can affect your encodes

Get it wrong, and the two fields that make up a frame, will be displayed in the wrong order, which in turn, makes each frame look 'jerky'. This can be hard to notice in low motion scenes, but simple to spot on panning and high motion scenes. Why they didn't just decide to put them all in the same order is beyond me.

My take on field order, is, if in doubt, verify it manually. I don't trust the tools that do this for you, as they often report conflicting results.

Although most store bought DVD's are top field first, that's not always the rule (I haven't yet run into a bottom field first store bought DVD, but I know they exist).

I believe Adam posted a quick/painless way of verifying field order using TMPGenc and the 'Deinterlace' filter in the Advanced section. It was from about a year ago, so forgive me if I don't remember exactly

You basically load your video into TMPGenc, click the settings button, and then the ADVANCED tab. Next, double click the DEINTERLACE filter in the list, and pick a high motion scene. You can then pick whatever field order setting you like, and verify if your video looks jmpy (even is bottom field, odd is top field). Just click the right arrow slider to advance frame by frame, to see the results.

As to what format DVD-R's are, that would depend entirely on who encoded them. Most VHS sources (at least NTSC ones), are telecined. If someone experienced converted them to DVD, then they were probably inverse telecined back to a 23.976 fps progressive stream before encoding. You can easily spot interlaced, or telecined material just by dragging the video into VirtualDub (get the latest versions that handle MPEG as well as AVI). Just advance through a few frames to see if it's pure interlaced, mixed (meaning it's probably telecined..look for a 2-3-2-3-2 pattern), or just progressive (no interlaced frames). The interlaced frames, if any, will have a 'combed' affect, as if someone pulled a comb through the video picture.

Another trick for DVD sources is to open all of the VOB's into DVD2AVI. Ensure that VIDEO | FIELD OPERATION is set to 'None', and then press F5 to preview the VOB's. DVD2AVI will report it as progressive, interlaced, or NTSC (meaning telecined).

[FulciLives]

@ Fulci again,

You say that most PAL DVD's are progressive...what about PAL DVD-r's burned from PAL VHS in stand alone DVD Recorders ?

Thanks,

Zetti

Well that is a bit tricky now isn't it hehehe

I have a few PAL DVD+RW discs that I got from someone who made them on a Philips standalone from PAL VHS videos. My Cyberhome CH-DVD 500 model DVD player has no trouble at all playing these back on a NTSC television (the Cyberhome CH-DVD 500 does PAL to NTSC conversion). However ... I tried to rip one of the DVD+RW discs to convert to NTSC and I just couldn't get it to work The end result was a JUMPY image ... this using Xesdeeni's interlaced AviSynth script ... yet this script has worked on commercial DVD releases. Of course the one PAL DVD+RW I picked was from a video that has massive noise at the bottom of the image (so bad it even jumps up into the visible image i.e., higher than overscan) so perhaps that was the issue there. I'll have to try one of the other DVD+RW discs that came from a cleaner PAL VHS tape and report back.

As for a more concise guide I started writing on up but never got around to finishing it ... Such a guide, if I ever finish one, would totally be Xesdeeni's bastard child but sometimes his method(s) (as outlined on his website) is not very clear so yes I agree that perhaps a more step-by-step write up is needed. Perhaps I will start work on this again after I test another one of my PAL VHS to DVD+RW discs.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Zetti]

Thanks Fulci and DJRumpy,

When I made my first conversion, I wasn't aware about the importance of the field order, and Xeesdeni's guide doesn't mention it, so I thought it wasn't a good method...

Now I think I know, anyway, I'd like to know more about the AssumeTTF comand;

Fulci, please keep your old Avatar, so I can recognize you "properly" :P

Thanks,

Zetti

[FulciLives]

Thanks Fulci and DJRumpy,

When I made my first conversion, I wasn't aware about the importance of the field order, and Xeesdeni's guide doesn't mention it, so I thought it wasn't a good method...

Now I think I know, anyway, I'd like to know more about the AssumeTTF comand;

Fulci, please keep your old Avatar, so I can recognize you "properly" :P

Thanks,

Zetti

I will change it back eventually ... I too get "thrown off" when people change Avatars ... you almost get more used to the Avatar sometimes than the name ... but in this instance I couldn't resist!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[dphirschler]

Here is my script. I was dealing with PAL 25i (PAL video interlaced at 25 fps).

LoadPlugin("c:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\MPEG2Dec3dg.dll")
LoadPlugin("c:\program files\avisynth 2.5\plugins\SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")

MPEG2Source("E:\u2\u2.d2v") # 0:49:27
#a=WavSource("E:\u2\u2 MPA T01 DELAY 168ms.wav") 
#AudioDub(v,a)

# bitrate: 0/8227/8227/PCM-1536

AssumeTFF
ConvertToRGB32
SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
#LanczosResize(720,480)
bilinearresize(720,480)
#ChangeFPS(59.94)
converttoyuy2
ConvertFPS(59.94)
SeparateFields.SelectEvery(4, 1,2)
Weave

#720
crop(12,2,-16,-12) 
addborders(14,6,14,8)

#704
#crop(9,2,-15,-12)
#addborders(12,6,12,8)

You may notice several commented lines. Basically, I was trying a few different things. I commented out the audio because I encoded the video seperate from the audio. I wound up using BilinearResize over Lanczos. And I experimented with 704x480 instead of 720x480.

Notice the AssumeTFF near the top. Then in TMPGenc, I had to set BFF. That may not have been necessary if I had instead did a SelectEvery(4, 0,3).

Anyways, the conversion looks perfect. Again, I was converting PAL video to NTSC video, not film or progressive PAL.


Darryl