Trailing and ghost images behind characters when they move

[farshaddashti]

Hi, All

I have a Geforce 4 Ti 4200 128 MB AGP 8X with Video in ( Philips Chip )
CPU : P4 2.4 RAM : 512 DDR 333 MOBO : EPOX 4GEA+ Sound : SB Live 5.1

I use WINDVR 2 for capturing video
Yesterday I captured a movie from my Digital Receiver for about 3 hours
With Best Quality for Profile ( 25 fps - MPEG2 – 720 x 576 - bitrate 6000 )
And it was so good and very good quality without any problem

But

Today I downloaded and installed WINDVR 3 and captured a MUSIC VIDEO and when capture Completed I watch the video file and I saw a very bad quality video file, why?

All of the objects and characters in the MUSIC VIDEO when move , there is trailing and ghost images behind those .
I mean there is trailing pictures with all of objects that move during palying the video

I know this is for Bit rate my bit rate is 6000 and this is very big but I yesterday captured with this setting
And it captured a very High quality video without any problem

And now I don`t know what I must to do , what do you think about this problem and is there any way to solve it

So I would be grateful if you could help me about this problem



Thanks 8)

[farshaddashti]

hey somebodey help me please
i need it



Thanks

[junkmalle]

I think what you are seeing is the two fields of the interlaced display. I suspect the previous captures only captured one field (and filled the second by interpolating from the first, not uncommon in capture software), and your new captures are getting both fields.

Remember, the second field is captured later in time, so any moving objects will appear in two places when the two fields are joined together into a single frame.

Look for a "deinterlace" setting in your capture software. Or check for field order settings (A/B, upper/lower, odd/even, whatever your software calls it).

By the way, if you output the interlaced recording correctly to a TV you won't see the problem because TV only displays one field at a time.

[farshaddashti]

Hi
Thank you

but i don`t think so

because some times i capture with this program and with this setting
without any problem like that i wrote in my post .

just some times I have that problem

----------------

and i can`t find any option like that you wrote in your reply ("deinterlace" )


so what do you think now

and what i have to do now



Thanks

[junkmalle]

far,

some times i capture with this program and with this setting without any problem

That doesn't definitively exclude interlace as the problem. Some broadcast show non-interlaced material. If you're "ghosts" look something like this small 4x blowup:



then you are seeing interlace problems.

If you are seeing a persistant trail of colorful slime behind moving objects you may have a codec problem. I haven't seen this with MPG files but it often happens when you playback, say, an XVID file that was encoded with one version of XVID and played back with another.

If you can, you might try using different codecs. Or uninstalling and reinstalling codecs.

[farshaddashti]

No
that`s not my problem i think this is a codec problem

but

even i reinstall my windows XP but i still have this problem


so what do you think and what i have to do ?

-----------

[junkmalle]

that`s not my problem i think this is a codec problem

Yes, it does sound like a codec problem then.

even i reinstall my windows XP but i still have this problem. so what do you think and what i have to do ?

I'm not familiar with WinDVR so I can only give you general suggestions.

Have you tried uninstalling WinDVR and resintalling it? When you upgraded did you uninstall the old one first? That might make a difference. Or have you tried going back to version 2?

Do you have more than one MPG2 codec installed? You can see video codecs by clicking on "Sounds and Audio devices" from the control panel. Go to the "Hardware" tab, then to "Video Codecs" in the "Devices" window. Double click on "Video Codecs" to bring up the "Video Codecs Properties" dialog. Click on the "Properties" tab to see the list of video codecs. If you see more than one, you might try removing some.

Are you dropping frames while recording? That usually doesn't cause the kind of problem you're describing -- but you never know. If you are dropping frames do you have DMA enabled for you hard drive?

When you reinstalled Windows XP, did you reinstall right over your existing installation (which is really just a repair)? Or did you format the drive and make a new installation? Reinstalling over an existing installation will leave many O/S settings intact. For example, all your applications will still be there -- along with any codes they installed.

[farshaddashti]

Hi

No i formated my Drive C and reinstalled all of thing

( Windows - WINDVR - CODECS - and ... )

yes i tested WINDVR 2 and 3 but nothing

No i don`t have any dropping frame and the DMA is enable


i check codec list but idon`t know wich one must be removed

this is me codec list please help me







Thanks

[farshaddashti]

and this is my problem





this happened when the objects move
like this HAND

[wingnut]

Morning,

I've seen this many times but not on real time captures. It is usually down to filters thatare trying to reduce "noise" in the picture. These work by comparing frames and "locking" pixels that don't appear to move. End result is a cleaner picture. HOWEVER if the filter is too severe and rapid motion takes place, hey presto snail trail. I once had to re-encode a captured show because of filtering in virtualdub.

Now I don't know your package as such but I'd check to see if the new version has some sort of real time filtering built in to clean up the source. If so, try capturing with it switched off and see if that sorts the problem. If not, I'm a little confused too.



Cheers

Edz

[SatStorm]

It seems that WinDVR deinterlace your source using field blending.

If you wish a better alternative to capture realtime mpeg 2 with software, try mainconcept 1.4.1 .

[junkmalle]

I belive Satstorm is correct, the ghostly fuzz you see is caused by the software blending two fields together. In a sense I was correct in my original answer, you have a "field" problem. But instead of simply showing both fields "as captured" the software is blending the two together in an attempt to smooth the picture.

In case you don't understand what fields are I'll give a little explaination.

Both NTSC and PAL video use field interlacing to reduce the total amount of bandwidth required to send a picture. PAL sends half the picture every 1/50 of a second. Not by simply splitting the picture in half but by skipping every other line of the picture. In the first 1/50 second it sends the odd numbered scan lines of the picture. 1/50 of a second later it comes back and fills in the even numbered scanlines.

first field:

11111111

33333333

55555555

second field:

22222222

44444444

66666666

To capture the full frame (both fields) Video capture hardware/software captures both fields and puts them together:

11111111
22222222
33333333
44444444
55555555
66666666

That is fine for still images, the full picture is restored. But a problem arises when objects are moving. The second field of the video was taken 1/50 of a second later than the first field. Moving objects are not in the same place. As you can see in the picture I sent a while back, the basketball has moved between the two fields.

The two fields don't create a problem when watching TV because you don't see both fields at the same time. By the time the second field is drawn, the first field has faded away. But when you capture and display the two fields on a computer screen you see both fields at the same time.

WINDVR is trying to make the picture look a little better by simply bluring the two fields together.

In general, there is no perfect solution to this problem. Many realtime capture programs avoid it by only capturing one field and displaying the same field a second time rather than showing the real second field. Or they may interpolate the second field from the first (each pixel of the second field is the average of the pixel above it and below it from the first field) to create a smoother image. Either way, you are losing half the vertical resolution.

Look through WINDVR's settings for a "deinterlacing" filter. Or it may be called "smoothing" or something like that. If you don't find such a setting, you may have to capture at a lower resolution. Say, 720x288 rather than 720x576. That way you will be caputuring a single field and avoiding the problem.

[farshaddashti]

Hi

than you for your reply but

my friend use this capture card and this program

but it dosen`t have any problem like this





and look at this



this problem happened when I use bitrate more than 4000 kbps



What do you think about this ????????/


Thanks

[junkmalle]

this problem happened when I use bitrate more than 4000 kbps

I assume you mean this problem only occurs when you record at 4000 kbps or more. My guess is that WINDVR captures only a single field below that bit rate, and switches to capturing both fields when you allow it to exceed that bitrate.

I did a little searching through the DVDRHELP forums and the consensus seems to be that WINDVR uses a crude form of deinterlacing that just blends the two fields togehter -- and there doesn't seem to be any way to stop it from doing this. Here's a sample message:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=685577&highlight=windvr+interlace#685577

I saw that Intervideo (maker of WINDVR) has it's own forums. Have you tried asking there?

[lordsmurf]

Quit being stubborn. The problem is guaranteed blended deinterlace.

[farshaddashti]

Hi

thank you " junkmalle "

I think I solved this problem by using Mainconcept PVR

but i have a question

If I buy a capture card with realtime hardware capture MPEG 2

like ( Snazzi DV.AVIO )

Do I still have this problem or no ??



Thanks

[junkmalle]

If I buy a capture card with realtime hardware capture MPEG 2

like ( Snazzi DV.AVIO )

Do I still have this problem or no ??

You probably wouldn't have the same problem. But I don't have any direct experience with the Snazzi card so I couldn't tell you for sure.

It's probably best if you ask someone who has one...

[farshaddashti]

thank you all
8)
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Farshad Dashti