What shall we do?

[vhelp]

Baldrick,

you bast--d! I gotta love you!
You sure do know how to keep your
cool! What, with all these people
making threts that you should start
charging a fee. Man! FWIW, I would
NOT stay, if I had to PAY! ooh, that
rymed! And I didn't plan that!

Anyways, I thank you for looking for
a resultion!... and not $$$

I'm looking forward to your continued
service (great) service that you have
ben providing (me) for thise past
year (since Feb/March) .

This sites personallity continues to be
great. DON'T EVER CHANGE!!! I've
heard that from many people saying
that about my personality - at work.
They tell me they don't know WHAT they
would ever do if I left the company...
that it wouldn't be the same. Am I making
any sense here, Baldrick? So, don't
EVER change!

Thank you! Thakn you! ...you bum!!

PS: I can't wait to post! I've got
questions, and I need help! HELP!! he, he....

[bbb]

The Answer: alt.vcdhelp

This is FREE, fast, permanent (think longterm) and better than having no forums.

You can also categorize them by alt.vcdhelp.guides, alt.vcdhelp.svcd, alt.vcdhelp.divx, and alt.vcdhelp.angermanagement. Use alt.binaries.vcdhelp newsgroup for software, templates, and video clips.

Please do not charge. Sharing information should remain unimpeded and free. Like you said, charging may not be enough to pay the bills and will discourage most knowledgeable people from visiting the site. Lack of knowledgeable discussion will lead to this site's downfall. Stay true to the dream and you will reach your Goal--The Most Coveted Playboy in the World!

[TurboRunner]

Macko As alot of people know there are heaps of free webhost out there and free forums which means you could use those services and not pay a cent yeah sure they have banners but it's a small price to pay to have a good free site. Then there is also the issue that all or over 80% per cent of the Information on this site is contributed by the users freely to the site as help to others so what you are saying is to baldrick to use this information and make profit off it wouldn't that mean he would have to pay a commission to all those that have supplied this information

What else you are saying is that People will also have to pay to give help to others.

The reason you pay for your webhosting solution is because you are a bussiness and those free services don't allow bussiness, Plus you want a more professional look with no advertising for other companies.

He could also have company advertisement banners on the site surely they would want to put the banners on a site that brings in so much traffic.

(This is not a flame it just a friendly debate)

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-28 04:12:41, macko wrote:
As President and CEO of an internet e-commerce company, I see you have only one viable solution to keep this site going. That is to make it a pay site. I want to know why people think that getting information from the internet should be free. It is a reality that over 90%, Yes 90%, of the original dot com's that started in the 1990's are now gone. </BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[PSXCopyCat]

GOTO http://www.delphi.com Start the forum there.

PSX C.C.

[gambit32]

Just say no to pop-ups. VCDhelp is viewed as a professional site for amatuers. Pop-ups are for warez sites. I'm torn on whether or not I'd pay to play. On the one hand this has been a great source for info. On the other hand, I haven't been around much lately. So how much bang am I going to get for my buck?
Another thing to consider about making members pay, I think I would actually pay a reasonable price (but what's reasonable?), who's going to handle the money? I'm sure Baldrick has his hands full just maintaining the site. Plus he's a student...I think. So would Baldrick have to HIRE someone to handle the accounts? Also, I'm not sure how it works elsewhere, but starting a business in the US means a license and taxes. If people start donating money then that would have to be reported as INCOME. INCOME means overhead. Will the fees generate enough cash to pay for the overhead?
The only way I see overcoming that is becoming a non-profit. Just because a business is classified as a non-profit, doesn't mean that it doesn't make a profit.

[Psx]

One of the best ways to save bandwith would be requireing people to register to even view the forums at all

[Mars-L]

Subscription fees WON'T work. Just a few percentage tells you they will pay and in the end a very small percentage really pays.
However much I feel for the site (and personally would pay a small amount if it will be easy and save to do) I know at least 90% of the visitors will try other sites/forums like doom9's. Which also means 90% of the knowledge will be leaving resulting in the other 10% not paying anymore for a 2nd year.
So IMHO that only leaves EZBoard.......

Good luck finding the right solution.
Greetz
Mars-L

[TIbrO]

Psx, exactly! And to register you must pay either $30 for 120 days, or $10 for 7 days of full access, and read-only access after 7 days. And ofcourse, Bladrick would make absolutely no profit with this... the whole point of this is not to make profit for Stephan, but to get income to pay for the cost of the site's existence. This would be a non-profit organization. This might even call for a renaming the site... from vcdhelp.com to videoprocessing.org or something... because the site contains much more than VCD information now.

[mole]

Baldrick,

I'm sure it will all work out. This site has been my homepage for about 2 years. I've gathered tremendous amounts of knowledge about this hobby since then. But I have noticed that lots of bullshit posts are being made lately. If we HAVE TO pay, i would, as long as it's reasonable. I think paying would deter the lame posts and people who really aren't serious about this, and someone might think twice about redundant questions - research the answers before blindly asking questions.
I dunno - I wish you luck and thanks for a great site.

[TIbrO]

Yes, thank you... Some people are starting to see my side. You can't continue with everything being free. There's just too many people. The only other way to stop this is to reduce or block the amount of people that can come here. How can you do that? You can't really... The site just has way too much traffic. Think about it... even if they move to a new server with a less restricting bandwidth quota, we'd still match up with it, and exceed it again. What it all comes down to is that if we want VCDHelp.com to stay up, we need to help keep it up. It's like any other "community", like a city, or a country. You pay taxes to keep stuff running and the streets all nice and paved, and public schools... You pay for all of that. So why not this website? Is it not important? Come on... you know there is no fighting it. Eventually the decision has to be made, you can't evade it forever... Either you pay, or you have no more site... Simple as that. 1 or 0. So which is it, guys?

[Im[CuRsED]]

Well first off i love this site...I dont know if this was mentioned...I seen one post that mentioned cutting down on bandwidth...I guess one thing would be the programs on your site...You could take those off and just give us a web link or setup an ftp...Its proabably a stupid idea...Another thing i was wondering if there is anyway u could limit the amount of people on the site at one time? It really sux there are bandwidth restrictions but im sure there there for a reason...i wonder if that will change in the future...well good luck with the site....l8r

[TIbrO]

Yes, the restrictions are there for a reason indeed... that reason is to make money. Do we want to give the people who host this website some so they let it stay up?

I mean, it only makes sense. They charge you for more traffic because you're using the lines more than anyone else, and plus, they figure you're probably selling some awesome products off of you site to get so much traffic. So they charge you more for more traffic. It's erally quite simple, I don't know why we're still all sitting here trying to find "another way" when in reality there is no other way. Maybe temporarily we will find something to reduce traffic, or increase the traffic quota, or find a server that is cheaper for a one terabyte per month traffic density... but in the end, if people really want to keep the site running, they're going to have to pay. Unless Stephan wins the lottery or something, so that he can pay $3000 per month to have 1TB traffic. Or maybe Branroyal will pitch in once his CS2 CD thing takes off, but either way, it requires money.

[bbb]

Dear Baldrick,

Usenet may be the only solution to your current dilemma. Newsgroups have been a staple for the widespread disemmination of information. Newsgroups are free and can be linked to webpages.

Short sighted individuals would have you believe that requiring monthly memberships would fix all your problems.

The fact is, the popularity of this site as an area for video discussion will drop dramatically. While this will lessen your costs, the value and uniqueness of this site will be lost forever. Vcdhelp will diminish into a small little social club where information and encoding techniques will stagnant and arrogant heads will inflame.

The majority of people with newer/revolutionary techniques will search elsewhere to post and share their encoding experience where it is free and open to the world.

Ignore the naysayers and those plotting your demise. Hear not their enticements and false charms of fee based registration.

You are a pioneering, kind-hearted, and generous individual. With your wisdom and intelligence, I know you will make the right decision and forever change the world where people rich or poor can encode with the best techniques.

[spiderman2k1]

TWO thing one I would pay $5.00 or may be $10.00 bucks a month for the board. The info is just that good it's worth it. If you do not want to charge people use like ezboard and a free webhoster with add's I have no problem with any of them. But I will not donate money if I do not know if the board will come back people might donate a little but will not do it every month.

[Tommy]

I really don't know what to do about the bandwith issues. But I suspect, if messages are limited to text without all of the picture it would help. It would probably help to scale down some of the graphics in the how to's. I have some reservations that if this becomes a pay site, some of the people will not be able to participate. For those of us who are on the older side it probably won't be a problem. I wouldn't have a problem with a monthy or yearly fee, however for those who are till in school it might hurt.

Thats just my two cents....

[TIbrO]

Dude, I am saying that I would pay, and it will take paying to keep the site as it is now alive. If he changes the site so drastically as to integrate newsgroups, then that might solve everything, and we can all stay free! I'm all for free shit, all the time! I warez mad stuff all the time and I hate paying... unless something really means something, or is real useful and I can afford it. Example: if they started charging $25 for TMPGEnc, I would sure as hell pay for that, because I can afford twenty five dollars, and the software is extremely useful. I already bought AVI_IO for the same reason! However, Windows XP is on here for free!
But really now, if he wants to keep the site how it was days ago, with the PHP forum and all of that, with moderation and everything how it is, it will require money from someone else's pocket beside Stefan's pockets, and Eurekamovies.com's pockets...
I mean, do you think I am nuts? Asking him to take my money? No... I am willing to give him my damn money for what this site is... and if we want the site to reamain as it was last week, then that is what it will take. Some sort of registration system, that without registering, you can't see any guides or the forum, since most traffic is generated by "guests" anyway, and maybe charge some sort of fee to be able to register...

[Im[CuRsED]]

Well if it does go to a paying bases then just think of napster...Was free and now i dont know what the hell it is...Dont use it and dont intend to...Use to be good and now its not...Napster went to Crapster...I dont know how many people would pay for it cuz there are to many sites out there where u can get the same info for free...And when vcd is pretty much obsolete will u switch the domain to dvdhelp.com? Well either way whatever happens Vcdhelp will never be as popular as it is today cuz its inevitable that ur gonna have to slash users...Do what ya goota do...Good luck once again

[d4n13l]

Baldrick, i have been looking at a lot of the HTML for this site and I think it could be more optimised. For instance do BBcode comments really need to be in the code? There are also a lot of <FONT> tags that perhaps could be dealt with by CSS. Do you hand code your pages after creating them? All WYSIWYG editors add so much unneeded crap. Does the Nav bar at the left hand side load from my cache or does it get downloaded with each page I view? It also looks like a lot of code for what it is. Have you tried URL Abbreviation? What about compression? Something like "mod_gzip" you can automatically compress your HTML on-the-fly for up to 40% less bandwidth and a speed up in page loading for users. To ease CPU load is there an option to compress with less compression, a comprimise? Try to minimise the amount of images in the guides and maybe make them a smaller size.
I can appreciate that this alone maybe wont solve ALL of your problems but it will reduce bandwidth none the same and the pages will also load faster for people. Which is always a good thing.
I have mixed feelings about a pay site. The first thing that strikes me is... how many pay sites do you even know of? Porno sites are the main ones I can think of, but only a couple of others besides. The web has a great tradition of being free, there are many other quality sites that are, can you learn anything from other similar sites?
I admire your determination to keep this a free site.

[TIbrO]

Optimization is one of the key ingredients to a solution we seek, but it alone cannot do it all. Think of this: If we had thought of all of this and optimized the code and made images smaller and what not back in July... this month would have been exactly the same, just because of the amount of people. No matter how much you optimize, the amount of people will still exceed the limit regardless, so the 1 Terabyte problem will stay. I'm all for free site, and optimized one at that. I am not trying to discourage optimization and seeking free alternatives, but I am saying if every registered user just gives five measly dollars a month, what a pack of cigarettes costs, we can keep it running no problem.

[d4n13l]

Here is what optimisation will do:
Take for example the image "http://www.vcdhelp.com/tmpgenc1.gif"
It made up for 1.84% of the TOTAL bandwidth of the ENTIRE SITE for one month.
The image in question is 101645 Bytes in size.
Lets say for example that we reduce this image, by say a mere 10% in size.
That would in effect reduce the total amount transfered for that image by 10%.
Now the big question - How much difference would this one image make if it were only 10% smaller?
The total transfered for the image in one month is 775262896 bytes.
A reduction by 10% is 697726606 bytes.
775262896 - 697726606 = 77536290.
A total of 77536290 bytes would have been saved if the image was just 10% smaller.
77536290 / 1024 / 1024 = 73.94 MB
73.94 MB could be saved per month JUST by making ONE image ONLY 10% smaller.

Now apply this to the rest of the site and.....

[judo]

I think d4n13l is rite about optimisation this might help out....and making the forum to ezboard and puting some of the larger sections on a "free" webhost Like http://www.angelfire.com or sumthing else...i think this better idea than chargeing monthly fee's(i would love to donate but im onleee 14 years old)...like a post said look at napster when it started to charge people it turned into Crapster and people when to other services that is free!!!!

Baldrick keep up the great job..and i hope u consider a alternate soloution than chargeing monthly fees...and GOOD LUCK NAD BEST WISHES

[JHebert]

Baldrick - Any theories to explain the sudden upsurge in monthly transfer? You mentioned it went from 200-300 GB/month to 1000 GB/month in just the last couple months. I know that VCDhelp recently got some press in several magazines, do you think this is part of it? Or is this hobby just reaching the "critical mass" point? Has the rate of new user registrations greatly increased recently? This situation reminds me of a few years ago when AnandTech exploded from a small hardware site to one of the majors like Tom's Hardware. Maybe some of the hardware and software companies that get discussed here frequently could be persuaded to kick in some banner money. Companies like Dazzle, Ulead, Hauppage, ATI, Cyberlink, Sonic, and others should realize how important these forums are to their customers and that they can have a bottom line impact on their businesses, and it is in their best interest to keep this great site up and running. Possibly a business manager is needed at this stage for VCDhelp to build these relationships and promote the site. Thanks to you and all the moderators for all your hard work.

[JoeBob]

Ok, I skipped a few posts because there was so many, so if someone already meantioned this, I'm sorry. But maybe you should be looking into a parent company. I mean, I'm sure other sites generate more bandwidth, and they're still free (eg. slashdot.org), what do they do? I don't think the solution lies in removing any content from your site, or by adding annoying pop-ups (although eurekamovies.com banners aren't bad, try having others which alternate each time you view the site) or even subscription fees. It's not like your the one and only as well as the first site to come to a point where it's hard to finance itself due to bandwidth limitations, and I'm pretty sure us little folk don't have many answers, go ask other big free sites what they did, that'll probably give you alot more ideas. I'm sure DVD player companies/resellers, multimedia equipment manufacturers/resellers, CD-RW/DVD-RW manufacturers/resellers etc, would have some interest in this site.

[nsdn]

Wow, what a shock to come here and find the Forum dead.....

A few comments...from a master of business student that majored in Marketing (and I have nearly finished wah hoo!!)

Certainly site optimisation can help a lot, however at the end of the day Baldrick spends a hell of a lot of time maintaining this site....and I have yet to find a better resource on the net. Baldrick certainly deserves to make money out of this site. I know I have learnt an incredible amount from this forum......

However everyone is aware that EVERYONE wants everything for free on the internet, be it because the can't or won't pay...I know I am pretty stingy when it comes to paying cash..not so much because i don't have it but more because its a hassel...although I did pay for AVI IO....

The trouble with subscription is that you will certainly get a lot of initial sbscriptions because existing users KNOW how good the site is, however with restricted access then...gradully people will see the pay sign and piss off. And your site traffic will die accordingly (then the problem will go away...lol)

However I have a few ideas on how a fee structure might work.

Firstly in viewing the forum, everyone that is a member will be aware that the same questions get asked over and over and over. This is unavoidable and in fact I have asked questions that have been available in the guides that I have overlooked for some reason...

Perhaps a fee structure where you get charged a small micro payment for ASKING a QUESTION to the forum, however you do not get charged for answering a question. This would encourage people to read the optomised guides. You could have differant sections for "information" where people are just posting informative posts rather than just asking questions.

Once a person has contributed up to a certain fee they may pass through certain levels...newby,cadet, member, lifetime member....lifetime members (and maybe members) would be considered expert and would not have to pay micro fees even for asking questions (or for generally chating with other members about stuff). The way this would work is when the "new message" box comes up....the message writer has to select "is this a question" or "information" if a person askes a question in "information" it does not get answered and maybe deleted by a moderator.

Actually, it may not even be necessary to "charge" for questions...however in order to pass various levels...u need to make a contribution (in the form of GOOD answers to other peoples questions as well as cash)...the very status may be enough to encourage people to part with cash.....of course it would not be possible for a person just to say...i have 50 or 100 bucks make me a life time member....it would be up to the moderators or Baldrick to decide if those members had made enough of a contribution. Further...the search engine is a extremely powerfull tool.....for newbys they may only be able to perform 5 searches in a single 24 hour period, and incremental for various levels. Perhaps for those youngins who really have no money Baldrick could consider their contributions (in the answers area) and give them a leg up to member..da da da

I know this status thing will make some people sick....fact is tho ...people will pay for it, some people will piss off permanently because of it...but more will pay than with no other incentive than a ..."we might have to shut down if u don't make a donation".

I know banners and pop ups are really really annoying, but the fact is that web sites are costly when u have the volume of traffic this one has....and advertisers won't part with cash unless their advertisments are pervasive and have a large audience....so...

I think your solution is a combination of all of the sugestiosn in this forum:

1. Optimise as far as possible.
2. Use advertisments (U have the stats (traffic) that will pull companies in), but try and find a balance between revenue and pervasivness.
3. some kind of micro payment scheme.

BTW, as I know how good this site is...I would pay a subscription....however I know that not everyone can....I even nearly made a donation...but i looked at paypal and....I am not giving my credit card # to them.

anyway I guess I am one of the reasons for the Tbytes hehe
CYA and I hope u work it out.....congrads tho on a great site

[Anonymous65]

First, people are NOT going to pay to use a forum! So, ditch any idea of a fee based forum. The exchange of information from web browsers is free, and not many are going to pay for "chatting" on a forum. So, it can not be fee based! Next, if you want to host the forum on your own server, you have to pay for it. No freebies are available any longer (other than a small personal web page). So, if you're not selling any products, which vcdhelp is not, then the service has to be payed by ads and gifts. However, I still don't understand why this topic, vcdhelp, cannot be set up on a regular forum service like Delphi. Delphi has tons of HUGE forums, and they work fine. And keep the reviews, links and other content on a regular web server. The traffic for this should be quite low when the forum content is gone. VCDhelp should be able to afford a $20/month web server for this. It's the forum that sucks the traffic, not the other stuff on VCDhelp.

[Anonymous65]

I just wanted to add that a new VCD (only) forum has opened at http://www.delphi.com/videocd/
Stop by, ask questions and get the latest info on VCD topics. (if you can't wait...)

[TurboRunner]

Hi,

Heres a few way's to keep your bandwidth down

1. keep the Vcdhelp site only to do with vcd,svcd,xvcd making only.

2. Make the DVD section on a new site called DVDHelp.

3. Make the Capture, editing and converting to anyother format except VCD or DVD on another newsite called Moviehelp.

4. Then Have a forum for all those on one Free Forum host that is separate from all the webhosts used.

5. keep or image size down, sort through the forum and find all the common questions asked and make a FAQ with the Questions and Answers.

6. Delete old messages older than a month.

7. Get Paid Sponsers from Capture card Manufactorers and or Retailers.

To Tibro

You saying a non profit organisation when you charge $30 per person per 120 Days add all the users that are registered to this site which is most probably over the 1,000+ mark times that by $30 equals $30,000+ for every 120days do you really think it costs $30,000+ to keep a service like this up and running for 4 months.

Why do you beleive in paying for a community. Do you pay to talk to your neighbour for help, Do you pay to talk to a Stranger, Do you pay to talk to someone at a nightclub. No you don't and all the information that they give you is absolutly free.

There are heaps of free sites out there even very popular sites and they have probably faced bandwidth problems, Did they go and make their site a pay site did they decide to give up. No they didn't they just simply found a way to keep there site free and lower the bandwidth.

I also bet you that you will be one of the first person to leave vcdhelp if it becomes a pay site which baldrick has said he is going to keep it free if there is a site that deals with the same subject. Which most users would also and bring the knowledge and helpfull information with them.

And if you did pay it will only be once then you will leave as there will probably not many people asking or answering your questions.

On 2001-10-28 12:24:09, TIbrO wrote:
Psx, exactly! And to register you must pay either $30 for 120 days, or $10 for 7 days of full access, and read-only access after 7 days. And ofcourse, Bladrick would make absolutely no profit with this... the whole point of this is not to make profit for Stephan, but to get income to pay for the cost of the site's existence. This would be a non-profit organization.

[Dhruv]

<bold>d4n13l has got the best idea from all of these posts.</bold> Reduce the images. All the other ideas posted are just mere crap...

Baldrick Try : http://web-hosting.at-cheap.com/index/dynamic/type/Small-Business-Web-Hosting/

Worth a go, Unlimited Bandwidth

[zzyzzx]

I say you can find some more free space, even if you have to split up the site onto several free places. Your going to link them all togather anyway so to the user it shouldn't matter.