AC3 and TMPEG

[cdcox]

Is there a way to encode to ac3 audio with tmpenenc+. I can't seem to find anything with a search, so sorry if this is a dumb question. If someone could point me in the right direction, I would be grateful.

[LRD]

I was told by tech/sales support that the Tmpge encoder does not support AC3 conversion. You can get there by using Tmpge Author with the AC3 plugin. The Author program has worked quickly and flawlessly for me.

LRD

[cdcox]

what I'm really concerned about is running a test with ac3 audio. What I'm wondering is pcm and ac3 more compatiable with table top players when used to create the vob files in the authoring software, as compared to using mp2 audio to make the vob file? I had a friend of mine that I gave a wedding video I did for someone, that would not play the audio on his toshiba table top player. I also have a different model toshiba however the disc plays fine on mine. I was going to try a shorter video and use pcm audio and author and burn with the same software(DVD complete) to see if it made a difference. Am I going in the wrong direction or and I on the right track. I would like to make the dvd compatable with as many players as possible (Ha Ha), which I know may be hard to do.
Currentloy I don't think dvd complete with accecpt ac3 audio. If that is the case, then I may need to switch authoring software.

[LRD]

cdcox

You are correct that lpcm and ac3 are the most compatible. Rumor has it mp2 will play on most newer dvd players in NTSC (never the same color) areas. Lpcm gobbles too much space, so I use ac3 which can be compressed allowing more space for video data, and hence better video quality. Regrettably, there is no trialware version of the Tpmge ac3 plugin. To practice, you might want to use ffmpeg, a free ac3 tool from this site. The trick is to merge the new audio stream with your video stream. Regrettably, I was never able to master that because I bailed and bought the plugin.

Sorry if I did not answer your question directly.

LRD

[cdcox]

Yea I have downlaoded ffmpg and will try it but I was worried about using tmpeg to encode and then using ffmpg to encode audio to ac3 is there going to be a possible out of sync issue because of the different encoders used, tmpec for video andffmpg for audio? If it is going to be a big headache to keep everything in sync, then I will look at something different, possible tmpeg dvd or looking at adobe encore. Besides as I said before, I don't know if dvd complete will accept ac3, according to the help section it accepts .wav and . mp2 so it may not work anyway but I will try.

[LRD]

Because I was never able to get things in sync, I am the wrong person to ask. Others love ffmpeg, so I suspect that it can be used without sync issues. I decided life is short and I had $128 US hanging around, so why not buy the Tmpge suite of products.

LRD

[cdcox]

Yes I agree why have a bunch of free programs that make great stuff but always have out of sync issues. I will experiment and let ya know. Thanks for the input.

[flaninacupboard]

i always use TMPGenc for video and another tool for audio these days - never gives me any problems. what i do is load my video in TMPGenc, do any editing (adverts etc) that is needed and then get TMPGenc to output a .m2v file for the video and a .wav file for the audio. i then encode the .wav file to a .ac3 and drop the .ac3 and the .m2v into TMPGenc DVDauthor. i never have problems with synch unless my source did.

[cdcox]

flaninacupboard

get TMPGenc to output a .m2v file for the video and a .wav file for the audio. i then encode the .wav file to a .ac3 and drop the .ac3

What program do you use to convert the .wav to .ac3? Or do you use the plugin for Tmpeg DVDauthor?

[flaninacupboard]

I use the AC3 encoder that comes with the authoring package scenarist - this is a bit expensive though. i never had much luck with Bsweet myself (it's files won't work in pioneer players for some reason) but i understand ffmpeggui wll do the job just fine.

[cdcox]

seems I have a choice to make because dvd complete will not accept ac3 files. I converted one for menu music and it would not use it. Thanks for the help.

[Bimpnberry]

I used to get progressive sync problems when using ac3 audio(sync at beginning, out of sync towards end)...but I solved the problem by shrinking/stretching the audio length to the video's length. Found a simple java app called waveedit i believe. No sync problems now.

[aguillon]

I used to have to process AC3 separately, i.e. extract audio thru Virtual Dub Ac3, convert it to WAV using HeadAC3he and feed the resulting stream to TMPGEnc.

I d like to draw your attention to the following codec (you can find it in the tool section) : AC3ACM codec.

It claims to allow TMPGEnc to process AVI files containing AC3 audio. My experience on my machine has not been good if I feed the files directly to TMPGEnc after installing the codec. However, I have been able to process AVI files with AC3 audio from Virtualdub (which normally cannot handle AC3 audio), then frameserve them to TMPGEnc for encoding, and it has worked flawlessly.

Hope this helps.

[Hardcoreruss]

I used to have to process AC3 separately, i.e. extract audio thru Virtual Dub Ac3, convert it to WAV using HeadAC3he and feed the resulting stream to TMPGEnc.

I d like to draw your attention to the following codec (you can find it in the tool section) : AC3ACM codec.

It claims to allow TMPGEnc to process AVI files containing AC3 audio. My experience on my machine has not been good if I feed the files directly to TMPGEnc after installing the codec. However, I have been able to process AVI files with AC3 audio from Virtualdub (which normally cannot handle AC3 audio), then frameserve them to TMPGEnc for encoding, and it has worked flawlessly.

Hope this helps.

The above method is a good recommendation. I have never had problems doing it this way and the audi is always in sync.

[LRD]

I just got a year older thinking of all the steps one has to take to use free tools to convert an audio stream to ac3 and have it synced. I did that previously, but then considered the time value of money. When I did, it was an easy decision to buy TMPG Author with the ac3 plug-in. It works flawlessly and saves much time. Having said that, it was fun for awhile using the free tools to get to a finished product.

LRD

[cdcox]

LRD said

just got a year older thinking of all the steps one has to take to use free tools to convert an audio stream to ac3 and have it synced. I did that previously, but then considered the time value of money. When I did, it was an easy decision to buy TMPG Author with the ac3 plug-in. It works flawlessly and saves much time.

I agree I would rather spend money to save time and have fewer to no problems with sync issues than use 3 or 4 different free programs to obtain the same results. My question to you LRD is I am debating on purchasing an adobe package which includes enocre, thier dvd authoring software. Do you feel the Tmpeg dvd author is more than a basic tool? I did a little reading on it and it sounds like it is.
Also did you try the demo before you bought is? Is it time based and will allow you to actually create a dvd with it or does it have alot of restrictions in try out version?

[LRD]

I tried it before I bought it. It is a full working version. It gives you 2 weeks or a month. You will have to test it without the ac3 plug-in, but it works the same with or without. Give it a shot. It is so easy you will love it. You can cut, add chapters, name products, etc. I have only needed the basic features to convert my hardware produced mpeg streams to dvd folders.

Regarding Adobe, I have not tried their editing products because I DID NOT WIN THE LOTTERY!! Those folks think alot of their products based upon what they charge. What product were you considering and what does it cost?

LRD

[cdcox]

LRD
I actually have been watching some auctions on ebay there is a company that has a pyro package with
Premiere Pro
DVD Encore
Audition
and a pyro firewire card
It claims that all software is unopened and unregistered and Brand New
buy it now is around $450.00. I don't have a money tree either so I watch how I spend it.
If I'm not bothering you, another question for ya, do you use tmpgenc + to encode the .m2v .wav files and let DVD author from tmpg convert the .wav to ac3 or do DVD author encode the video and audio for you?

[LRD]

cdcox

Actually, my process is much easier. I record with a hardware USB 2 encoder product called Compro VideoMate Live USB 2. The stream loads easily into Author, where I edit and create chapters. I then create dvd folders. If they are too large, I create them anyway and compress with InterVideo DVD Copy--$17 from Sam's Club. The results are excellent. This way I avoid large avi captures and long encoding on my P4, 1.3 gig system. I did buy TMPGEnc, but don't plan to use it much until I get my new machine. One 2 pass vbr encoding with TMPGEnc took 17 hours, but the results were great. I don't have kind of free time.

LRD

[LRD]

cdcox

Re the conversion, my mpegs arrive with lpcm audio. The Author program does the conversion without sync issues. It is then easier to compress. You cannot compress lpcm audio.

LRD

[Cobra]

cdcox & LRD,

You can compress LPCM audio - LPCM stands for Linear Pulse Code Modulated and is a WAV format.

http://www.mpeg.org/MPEG/DVD/Book_B/Audio.html

You'll find the relevant information here.

This should save you a little space - LPCM does use up a lot of space. If you take it down to a 3xxkbps AC3 file, that saves you 1200kbps. That's enough for a significant boost in video quality, or a significant gain in space for more video.

flaninacupboard is correct, ffmpeggui is an outstanding tool that is simple to use and works well. You can certainly use whatever encoders you like for audio and video separately, the end results will always be compatible.

Hope this helps,

Cobra

[Nelson37]

I use BeSweet to encode WAV to AC3. SFAIK, this uses the same AC3 encoder as ffmpgui. No synch issues, playback tested in Apex, Cyberhome, Toshiba, PS2, and a couple more. Apparently some standalones have trouble with the AC3 from BeSweet.

I mux with TmpGenc and burn with Sonic, no major authoring. A simple script file does the whole process in an hour or so, hands-free. Also all free software. I think you can put $450 to a whole bunch of better purposes than authoring software.

For maximum compatibility, LPCM would be your best choice outside of a professional encoder.

[LRD]

Cobra & Nelson

The problem I had was the ordering of ac3 encoding with video editing. I bailed to Tmpge Author with ac3 plugin before I got the hang of it. I could create the ffmpeg audio file from the edited mpeg, but merging in my then trial version of Author always left the audio out of sync. Can you explain the correct process so that cdcox can give it a shot?

LRD

[cdcox]

I want to use ac3 because of file size. What my problem is now is the current authoring software I use (DVD Complete) will only accept .mp2 or wav. So it looks like I need a new authoring program and I will download and try a couple of trials. DVD Encore and Tmpeg DVD are my first 2 choices.

Nelson said

I think you can put $450 to a whole bunch of better purposes than authoring software.

$450.00 is for 3 programs + a pyro firewire card not just dvd authoring software. You get

Premiere Pro-- retail is 699.00
DVD Encore--retail is 550.00
Adobe Audition--retail is 299.00
I didn't think that was a bad price, but If I don't have to spend it, I won't so I'll probably try Tmpeg DVD first.

My main problem is this, I am video taping a friends wedding in a couple of weeks, when I gave him one of my DVD's to test on his toshiba player, it played the video fine with no sound at all. I am going to give him an earlier one I did with Sonic My DVD that has LPCM audio, if it works, I know that .mp2 will not. So my choices are, Keep his total video under 1 hr and use LPCM or find an authoring program I like as much as DVD complete that will accept .ac3 audio. That is my delima.
Thank all of you for your help.

[LRD]

coxcd

I would tape to your heart's content. You can later sort out how to get it to a dvd. I know it can be done with what I have, which will cost you only $90. A firewire card is cheap; you can probably pick one up for $20-30. Hell, most firewire cards come with the software you may need, i.e. Ulead Studio. You might try a Compusa branded card for grins. It would be a shame to miss special moments because of the felt need to fit it on a single dvd. BTW, I can usually fit 1.5 hours of good quality on a dvd without compression at a bit rate of about 6000kbps.

LRD

[CubDukat]

TMPGEnc won't take in AC3 directly for transcoding, but it will mux an AC3 file with an .m2v file.

That's what I use for my HDTV conversions, although lately I've just been converting the AC3 to a 48-bit WAV and converting it to an AVI file to use for encoding in Premiere Pro (which for some perverse reason, does not import AC3 files directly when Ulead MediaStudioPro--which sucks total ass quality-wise--does).

[cdcox]

from reading some of the posts I may need to clear up some confusion that I may have caused for which I am sorry. I have been doing dvd's for about 2 years. I have 2 digital camcorders I currently use firewire to capture and premiere 6.0 to edit, Tmpegenc + to encode to mpeg2, and DVD complete to author to DVD. with these steps I get very good results.
I need a DVD authoring program that will convert the mp2 file to ac3 to use ac3 on the DVD to save kbs for the video.

LRD
When I use the bitrate cal from this site I can do 1 hr with 1536 wav and
ave for video say 7509.
When I add 15 min to the video, it drops to 5700 and at 1 hr 30 min it all the way down to 4494. Which may be ok, because there is not alot of action and fast movment in a wedding. However some other videos I do, do have fast movment and I would want a higher bitrate if the video runs 1hr and 30 to 2 hrs.
I guess I will experiment with vbr on a 1.5 hr video with max set to 6000
ave set to 4000 min set to 2000 and see what happens. If I can get by for awhile without spending a dime, that would be better for know until the funds increase alittle.

[Nelson37]

I believe the audio synch problem is from the editing of the MPG2 file. This can cause multiple problems. Try running the file through a demux/mux process, or use TMPGenc Merge & Cut. Make sure synch is good before converting to AC3. Test this thoroughly.

If you are starting from an AVI, Extract the WAV from that. No need to ever make an mp2, just encode the video.

I load the MPG2 in VdubMod, and save the audio as a WAV. Then use BeSweet to convert WAV to AC3, typically at 224 but have used 384 as well. I also demux the m2v file with TmpGenc, which is probably not necessary. But I do it anyway. Then I mux the m2v and ac3 in TmpGenc, and burn with Sonic. Conversions all done by an AutoPilot script and a batch file or two. DVDlab does better menus, but PlayStation2 did not like the disks. I don't waste much time on menus, anyway. Got Sonic free with the drive.

Audio synch great on 40 or so disks now, several different brands, players mentioned previously. I believe it is Pioneer products that do not like the AC3 from BeSweet (Actually BeSweet is just the GUI, I forget the actual AC3 Encoder program name).

On the $450 software, that is a good price for some good software. But unless you really need the hi-end features, you can get for free or with a $40 card all the software you need.

And whoever said you CAN compress a PCM, well, yes, but then it's NOT PCM ANYMORE, at least not within the DVD spec.

Curious which is more compatible, MP2 which is NOT is spec for NTSC but plays in most players, except some Toshibas and perhaps others, or the BeSweet AC3 which IS in spec but apparently won't play on Pioneer at all?

[awlchu]

Please note you can buy TMPG's AC3 encoder and use it as a standalone 2 channel encoder. You do not need the authoring program to use it.

I bought it by itself just to convert wav files to 2-channel ac3. For $30US, it is one heck of a buy for validated dolby AC3 audio.

The flip side is that it requires a periodic license check using an internet connection. Some people cannot (will not) have a production machine attached to the 'net for security reasons.

[studawg66]

The AC3 plugin for TMPGEnc is a steal at $29, and as awchul just stated, it can be used in standalone mode to batch convert a list of .wav files, so you don't have to own TMPGEnc to get the AC3 encoding feature. Plus, it is licensed, so it is fully compatible with all DVD players, unlike BeSweet and ffmpeg.

Also, you were looking for a good, relatively inexpensive DVD authoring package, so I would like to recommend DVD-Lab (www.dvdlab.net). There is a fully functional 30 day trial available, and it is $99 to purchase. I used it for a month, then bought it because I fell in love with its flexibility and features. It can do most anything you dream up and does not assume you are an idiot, like so many authoring packages these days (Sonic software comes to mind).