Anamorphic recording from HDTV cable box

[Frobozz]

AntnyMD and I were having an off-topic discussion in another thread, so I thought I'd report my findings in a new topic.

I have the ADS USB Instant DVD for Mac and the Comcast HDTV cable service. AntnyMD said if I can capture the cable signal of the HDTV widescreen program in an anamorphic squeezed format that I can use DVDSP (which I don't have) to make anamorphic widescreen DVDs from those programs (in NTSC, not HDTV of course).

I got it to work. I had to change the Comcast (Motorola) HDTV box settings so the TV type is 4:3 Pan & Scan rather than 16:9 and change the other settings to 480P. The image on my TV was cropped (pan & scan) but the output from the box's S-Video was squeezed full frame.

By the way, you access these settings by pressing the menu button while the HDTV box is off.

The bummer is I'd have to watch the program in a lousy form on the TV while doing this capture. If I just leave the settings so they are correct for the TV I capture a letterboxed widescreen picture with the ADS unit.

[jaytbird]

Just so I understand this correctly, you are using the S-Video out from your HDTV and pulling the signal through the ADS Instant DVD device to your Mac? If this is the case, I understand then that the signal out of the box is no longer digital, but analog due to the S-Video cable??? If I am mistaken, someone please correct me. I've been doing something similar with my Ultimate TV (M$ version of TIVO) and Direct TV satellite service. I record the satellite signal to the Ultimate TV and then replay it out through the S-Video using my Sony digicam as a "transcoder" which I can then import via firewire into iMovie. Using ffmpegX, it converts the raw DV to MP-2 for DVD. The only bad thing about this process (other than taking a long time ) is that it cannot transfer the Dolby Digital signal, and the resulting DVD's that I burn are only in Pro-Logic.
Thoughts anyone?

[AntnyMD]

For the forseeable future, all consumer video technologies capable of copying digital broadcasts will have some analog stage involved. For what its worth, creating a high quality DVD from a high defintion signal will give you a great copy.

[jaytbird]

Yes, I remember coming across a rather heated discussion regarding this in the avsforum.com sites.
And, yes, I agree that capturing the signal from an HDTV broadcast will give you a great quality DVD. My only beef is that there is no mechanism to transfer the Dolby Digital sound quality as well. Unless someone knows of a way to do it????
JW

[Frobozz]

To get the Dolby Digital sound you would need an external audio controller that connects to the coaxial or optical digital audio out of the HDTV tuner along with software that records that stream intact without decompression. This sounds like a good subject to search for at osxaudio.com.

[DVmadman]

My only beef is that there is no mechanism to transfer the Dolby Digital sound quality as well. Unless someone knows of a way to do it????
JW

G5 towers come with a Optical Digital Audio (S/PDIF) interface on the rear panel. With the right software you might be able to get the multichannel AC3 audio by connecting a TOSLINK cable to your satellite receiver. You would then have to recombine the audio and video when both are on the computer.

I noticed the new HD DVR (Digital Video Recorder) offered by Dish TV has a couple of IEEE1394 ports and a USB port on the rear panel. The current documentation is not clear about what these ports are for (it says:1 USB port (for future use); 2 DISH Wire™ audio/video connection ports for interface with select IEEE 1394 products) but I can't imagine that they would make it easy for you to make digital quality copies of broadcast material. Maybe the ports are designed for Hard Disk expansion. If that is the case and standard Firewire drives can be used, it may only be a matter of time before someone figures out how to interpret the data when the FW drive is connected to a computer, unless they encrypt the data. One can only speculate ...

[jaytbird]

Thanks for the tip...I'm looking at the osxaudio site right now. Learn somehting new everyday!
Define "external audio controller". If I could somehow get the encoded signal to the computer, I believe A-pack could manipulate it for use in a DVD.
Anyway thanks pointing me in a direction Frobozz.
JW

[jaytbird]

G5 towers come with a Optical Digital Audio (S/PDIF) interface on the rear panel. With the right software you might be able to get the multichannel AC3 audio by connecting a TOSLINK cable to your satellite receiver. You would then have to recombine the audio and video when both are on the computer.

Yes...my satellite receiver is connected to my Audio/Video receiver via a Toslink cable. Now,the question is, how to get the dolby signal to my computer? (TiBook).
I'm checking other forums now....I'll let you all know if I find anything.
JW

[Nelson37]

I don't know squat about Mac but I have researched the AC-3 thing.

You have to be able to cap from the SPDIF in a bit-accurate mode. Apparently some 24-bit soundcards can do this, but not all. Cap as a WAV, should auto-select as 48k. This should be an AC-3 file interspersed with regular gaps, apparently for timing purposes. There is a BeSweet subprogram called BeSplice or BeSplit which can remove these gaps, leaving a valid AC-3 file. Details on Doom9.

Sounds like several of you are using HDTV capped thru the S-Video or Composite cable. Also sounds as the quality is significantly better than Standard TV channels on same cable. Would you say the resolution is higher, cleaner signal, better color, what?

Time-Warner won't even install the box, though it's free, as I don't have an HDTV. I just want to capture the higher quality signal, trying to decide if it's worth going to the office and raising hell just to get one.

[DVmadman]

Thanks for the tip...I'm looking at the osxaudio site right now. Learn somehting new everyday!
Define "external audio controller".
JW

Firewire 410 by M-Audio
http://www.osxaudio.com/index.php?story=577


Also, found this interesting tidbit WRT the G5 builtin Optical Audio Interface:
http://www.osxaudio.com/index.php?story=529

[Frobozz]

Define "external audio controller". If I could somehow get the encoded signal to the computer, I believe A-pack could manipulate it for use in a DVD.
JW

The way I see it is you need to connect the optical link to the Mac instead of to your AV receiver. Since you don't have a G5 with this built in, the "external audio controller" would have the optical input and connect to your PowerBook via either Firewire or USB. Because you're wanting to record this sound for use on a DVD you don't want it decoded, so the software has to allow it to be saved in its digital form.

Then there is the subject of copyright. Are the copyright owners going to make it easy to exactly duplicate their Dolby 5.1 soundtracks? As for me, I'm willing to settle for good old 2 channel sound and letterboxed NTCS recording of a HDTV program I'd like to replay at another time. If the program really benefits from the Dolby 5.1 sound I'll hope it becomes available on DVD and buy the professionally produced version.

[Frobozz]

Sounds like several of you are using HDTV capped thru the S-Video or Composite cable. Also sounds as the quality is significantly better than Standard TV channels on same cable. Would you say the resolution is higher, cleaner signal, better color, what?

The NTSC letterboxed picture I have captured using the ADS box has excellent detail, contrast and color. To me the picture looks better than when I'm watching a good-quality letterboxed program on a non-HDTV channel. This is on a 32" Sony XBR CRT television. On a projection set the quality might not be as impressive but Jennifer Garner still looks fabulous in that red wig.

[AntnyMD]

People only want the Dolby Digital 5.1 track because it exists, not because it is essential. Once multichannel audio becomes as commonplace as stereo, you'll then want some sort of holographic image of studio musicians and Foley artists recreating the sounds.

Come on people, you have but two ears, and they're both analog. Just sit back and enjoy your video!

[jaytbird]

But what about all the $$ I've sunk into 5.1 Surround sound speakers!!!
I want to use them right??right?
Seriously, for most movies, I agree. Pro Logic is fine. However, I can't imagine watching movies like The Matrix or LOTR without it.
JW

[AntnyMD]

You may have a point there ... but I havent seen any Matrix or Lord of the Rings movies, so ... theres a small chance I'm missing some brilliant sound mixing.

[Frobozz]

... but I havent seen any Matrix or Lord of the Rings movies

Just when I was thinking we had a lot in common, AntnyMD, you say something like that!

I've enjoyed surround sound from back in the 70s when my B&O receiver had an "ambiophonic" sound switch to use with rear-channel speakers. To me this adds greatly to the enjoyment of most movies. Just listen to the Black Stallion breathing in its big race or the thunder when the home run is hit in The Natural. Chills. But for music I can't stand anything but 2-channel stereo.

So what was the topic here? Oh yeah, The Matrix and LOTR are available on DVD with 5.2.1 surround so I don't need to worry about being able to record it from my TV. Problem solved.

[jaytbird]

heeheehee
Guess I'm stymied until FW CE devices are readily available (and bug free!) I know Yamaha and Pioneer have some devices that you can connect to your computer via firewire, but they are lacking drivers as of yet.
Thanks for the discussion guys. I learned some things I wasn't aware of!
If anyone comes across anything that looks promising, let me know.
JW

[Frobozz]

AntnyMD, have you been reading about CaptyDVD 2? It seems it also will do 16:9 authoring along with 2-channel AC-3. It will be bundled with the $250 LaCie FastCoder available next month and also sold separately. However, LaCie says the separate version won't have the AC-3 capability.

Here is a brief comparison of CaptyDVD 2.0 and DVD Studio Pro:
http://www.videouniversity.com/wwwboard/macnew/messages/2330.html

[AntnyMD]

I recently downloaded CaptyDVD v. 1.1.4, and I think it can do 16:9 ... I'll have to check, and I'll look at that link as well.

- snip -

OK, I read that post. CaptyDVD doesnt have a pretty interface now, so I hope version 2 has a more intuitive interface. I only use 1.1.4 when I have a long MPEG that I want to get authored quickly. I hate waiting for A.Pack to convert AIFF to AC3!