VR Mode Playback

[Maldez]

I'm a new owner of the Pioneer DVR-7000. This machine allows recording in what it calls "VR Mode", which in effect takes a 2-hour DVD-RW disc and expands it anywhere up to a maximun of 6 hours.

This actually works great, but my fear is that discs recorded in VR Mode will be difficult (impossible?) to play back in machines other than a Pioneer DVR-7000.

Is VR Mode strictly a Pioneer invention, or is it a standard technology? Do any of you have any experience with getting VR Mode discs to play in, say, a SONY DVD player?

Thanks!

[wingnut]

And the ever helpfull answer is.....

it depends

I have no personal experience with the pioneer models but the panasonic unit records to RAM in VRO format at one of the following resolutions

704x576 (PAL)
704x480 (NTSC)
352 x 576 (PAL)
352 x 480 (NTSC)
352 x 288 (PAL)

depending on the length of the programme recorded. Now in the case of the panasonic you can also record in these modes on dvd-r which should, theoretically, play back on other machines. In my case I don't do this. I record to the RAM disk then copy that off on the PC, edit it, add menus in dvd lab and burn to dvd-r which seems to offer better compatibility.

In the case of the pioneers I've read some postings that it can use non dvd compliant screen modes in its captures, (the dvb standard 544 resolution I believe), which may cause other players problems.

I would suggest taking one of the disks recorded into virtualdub and check out the resolution recorded in the mpeg file. If its a dvd standard, (and the player in question doesn't balk at the non standard VTS layout - e.g. no VOBS but VRO file structure), then I'd imagine it would play ok.

If a player can't handle the structure but the mpeg resolution is compliant then you could rip the vro to a pc and re-author onto a dvd-r using tmpgenc dvd author (which understands VRO files) or DVD LAB.

Hope that's helped a little

Cheers

Edz

[Maldez]

Edz - wow, quite the high-tech answer!

What I was really hoping to read is someone saying something like "Yes! I own a Pioneer DVR-7000 and have found that I can play back my VR Mode recordings on most any SONY DVD player manufactured after June 2002, as well as many Panasonic, Samsung and Toshiba units".

Or even a big "No! You're outta luck, dude. VR Mode recordings can ONLY be played back on Pioneer models"!

I much appreciate you trying to help me, but it was mostly over my head. I'm a "Yes or No" kind of guy.

Anybody else out there actually own a Pioneer DVR-7000?

Tom

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[Maldez]

Thanks, Philip. I think what you're saying is VR Mode discs will play on a lot of players, but not all. That's good news for me. I didn't want to end up with a pile of discs and no machine to play them on.

[Excelsior123]

I have the Pioneer 310 and it has the VR Mode.

My experience is it will not play on my home unit (I have a Panasonic player).

However, what I do is bring the VR disk to my computer and convert it.

One program, "TMPGEnc DVD Author", will do this for you. You can get a trial version and then purchase the full version once you get it working.

Another program is "DVD Movie Factory'. Again, you can get a trial version. However, the trial program will not let you transfer the sound.

Once you convert the VR movie, you can then burn it with a program, such as "Nero', to make it run on your DVD player.

[bobinga]

The full version of MovieFactory3 will handle the sound. and you will not need Nero for burning with MF3

[Maldez]

Convert a VR disc? What do you convert it to? I have ULead software on my PC. Is this of any use for the conversion you're talking about?

I need more details please!

Thanks

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[Maldez]

Philip - sorry I put words in your mouth. I guess I was reading what I wanted to see. But as long as there are "a few" DVD players manufactured that will play VR Mode discs I'm OK.

And as I mentione dearlier, I have Ulead software on my PC, (just not sure it includes "Movie Factory 3").

But I'm gonna get the software I need one way or the other, so it looks like I'll be able to convert my VR discs to a DVD discs.

Thanks for your help!

[Synergy]

And as I mentione dearlier, I have Ulead software on my PC, (just not sure it includes "Movie Factory 3").

But I'm gonna get the software I need one way or the other, so it looks like I'll be able to convert my VR discs to a DVD discs.

Your first post clearly asked if there were any standalone DVD players which would play the DVD-VR format discs, and now it seems that you have decided to convert your DVD-VR discs to DVD-Video instead?

Well, as PhilipL stated earlier, there are currently a limited number of standalone DVD players from Panasonic and Pioneer, which are able to play the DVD-VR recorded discs. In fact, Panasonic's current lineup except the S25 model is able to play the DVD-VR format recorded on either DVD-RW or DVD-RAM discs. My S55 player even plays the DVD-VR format, recorded using Nero, on a DVD+RW disc:

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11251&catalo...tGroupId=11059

Pioneer's DV-563A is also able to play the DVD-VR format recorded on DVD-RW discs, but this feature is only disclosed in its operating manual. I'm sure there'll be more DVD players with DVD-VR compatibility in the future as DVD(-VR) recorders become more widespread.

As for converting the DVD-VR format to DVD-Video, it has been discussed frequently here and is well summarized from the following link:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=101191&referrerid=11005

[Maldez]

Yes, I was mainly interested in finding a DVD player that would play my VR Mode discs at first. But that was before I knew there was a way to convert a VR disc into DVD format.

Wouldn't it just make more sense to do the conversion to DVD format, and then my discs would play in all DVD players, or am I missing something? Is there any reason not to do a conversion?

Thanks again!

[Maldez]

Also, when you're converting DVD-VR to DVD-R, and you actually converting the original disc to another format, or just making a copy?

[me]

I'm a new owner of the Pioneer DVR-7000. This machine allows recording in what it calls "VR Mode", which in effect takes a 2-hour DVD-RW disc and expands it anywhere up to a maximun of 6 hours.

This actually works great, but my fear is that discs recorded in VR Mode will be difficult (impossible?) to play back in machines other than a Pioneer DVR-7000.

Is VR Mode strictly a Pioneer invention, or is it a standard technology? Do any of you have any experience with getting VR Mode discs to play in, say, a SONY DVD player?

Thanks!

I don't know who invented VR mode, but I don't think its implementation has to do with a particular brand name. It has to do with DVD recorders, DVDRs. I think it is a common format for DVD recorders, but very rare or nonexistent on DVD players, units that only play DVDs, and don't record them.

I just started a thread about the format today.

[me]

I'm a new owner of the Pioneer DVR-7000. This machine allows recording in what it calls "VR Mode", which in effect takes a 2-hour DVD-RW disc and expands it anywhere up to a maximun of 6 hours.

PS

Just noticed this part of your post.

I think you misunderstood what the VR mode is. (Again, it's not just a Pioneer thing, but is present on most current DVD recorders, but not present on most DVD players that don't record.)

I'm not familiar with your machine, but I assume it works the same way on yours as on mine (a Sansui DVD4005).

The VR mode has nothing to do with 2 hours vs. 6 hours. That is another mode setting--which affects the quality vs recording time. ("HIgher quality" = less recording time.) The standard is considered SP, two hours per DVD. There is also a "higher quality" setting, XP, which I think only records one hour per DVD. LP is a lower quality setting, I think 4 hours per disc, and SLP the lowest, that's the six hour setting.

No, the disc isn't "expanded". The lower quality-higher recording time settings use more compression, so that they can fit more on one DVD.

These XP-SP-LP-SLP settings are completely independent of whether you choose DVD-VR or DVD-Video mode for recording. You can record six hours on a DVD-Video (the standard format) disc. In fact, a DVD-R disc can only be recorded in DVD-Video mode (at least on my recorder). The VR mode is only an option with a DVD-RW disc.

So--why would one want to record in VR mode, when one can also record for six hours on a DVD-Video (standard format) disc, and the VR discs are much less compatible. Before I didn't see much reason to record in VR, but just discovered some (to me) major advantages, that's why I also asked (in a new thread) about ways to convert from VR to DVD-Video. See that new thread for more details.

By the way, I usually record in the lowest quality (SLP) six hour setting. At least for recording from broadcast TV and normal cable, or from a VHS tape, the resulting quality looks fine to my eyes. Perhaps if you have a HD TV, are recording from digital cable, or from a DVD, you would see an improvement with the higher quality (less recording time) settings. My two cents, of course.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[anzimike]

Hi Maldez
I have been using dvdr7000 for over 2 years. It's a great machine. Sadly most standalones in my experience will not play vr discs. I transfer to computer using dvd-rw and author with TMPGEnc DVD Author. (I believe ulead products also will handle vr files). Windows is tempermental about reading vr files though, so you may first have to extract the files using isobuster (free) to a RTAV folder on your hard drive. 2 hour vr mode is full d-1 (720x480) and will record up to about 130 minutes. If you need to go longer I would suggest 4 hour mode, since this is the next dvd-compliant resolution half d-1 (352x480), or you will half to re-encode. Hope this helps and have fun.

[zleepy]

About a month, I posted a URL that lists players that play VR disks.

Also, the new DVD Shrinkvversion 3.2.0.15 reads, saves & burns VR disks as standard DVD with 2 mouse clicks, after you select where you want the files saved to.

Simply click the DVD icon then click Backup.

To cut scenes or join other DVDs, use Re-author icon.

[VEFF]

And as I mentione dearlier, I have Ulead software on my PC, (just not sure it includes "Movie Factory 3").

But I'm gonna get the software I need one way or the other, so it looks like I'll be able to convert my VR discs to a DVD discs.

Your first post clearly asked if there were any standalone DVD players which would play the DVD-VR format discs, and now it seems that you have decided to convert your DVD-VR discs to DVD-Video instead?

Well, as PhilipL stated earlier, there are currently a limited number of standalone DVD players from Panasonic and Pioneer, which are able to play the DVD-VR recorded discs. In fact, Panasonic's current lineup except the S25 model is able to play the DVD-VR format recorded on either DVD-RW or DVD-RAM discs. My S55 player even plays the DVD-VR format, recorded using Nero, on a DVD+RW disc:

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ModelList?storeId=11251&catalo...tGroupId=11059

Pioneer's DV-563A is also able to play the DVD-VR format recorded on DVD-RW discs, but this feature is only disclosed in its operating manual. I'm sure there'll be more DVD players with DVD-VR compatibility in the future as DVD(-VR) recorders become more widespread.

As for converting the DVD-VR format to DVD-Video, it has been discussed frequently here and is well summarized from the following link:

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=101191&referrerid=11005

While the Pioneer DV-563A may play DVD-VR as you stated, it doesn't play DVD+VR.

"Only" 2 of my 4 home DVD players (not incl. a portable player and the DVD recorder itself) play DVD+VR.
My Sony and Norcent play +VR.
However, my Pioneer and Cyberhome do NOT play +VR.

[Guitarman]

Maldez,

I have the Pioneer DVR-420H-S and also an ILO DVDRHD04. The key here is the difference between DVD+VR and DVD-VR.

DVD+VR uses close to the same file structure as a standard DVD-Video disc (video_ts folder), does not need to be finalized and will play on most all player capable of playing recorded discs.

DVD-VR, which the Pioneers use, uses a completely different file structure, need to be finalized and plays on very few players.

I have a Pioneer player so my DVR-420 VR discs will play on that, but it also plays the DVD+VR discs from my ILO.

If the 7000 is like the DVR-420, you have the option of initializing the DVD in VR or Video mode. If it is a DVD you want to keep in a collection, use Video mode to initialize the disc. Use VR mode if you are using the disc to chase play or record stuff just to watch and erase, of course, using a DVD-RW.

I hope this helps