Ethical Question

[Supreme2k]

Some of you need to STFU about "everybody" pirating *cough*DVDDave, wings*cough*

If you need validation that badly that what you're doing is okay, or you're "one of the guys", go back to your warez groups and concentrate on ripping those XBox games

[wings]

Some of you need to STFU about "everybody" pirating *cough*DVDDave, wings*cough*

If you need validation that badly that what you're doing is okay, or you're "one of the guys", go back to your warez groups and concentrate on ripping those XBox games

I don't need validation. Besides you don't need to copy X-box games. Put in a 120 gig hard drive and mod and you can save 50 or more games on the harddrive. TechTV showed how to do that. It's the PS2 you copy to disc. Witch is easy to do with tools here.

[DVDDave]

[quote="wings"]

Some of you need to STFU about "everybody" pirating *cough*DVDDave, wings*cough*

If you need validation that badly that what you're doing is okay, or you're "one of the guys", go back to your warez groups and concentrate on ripping those XBox games

validation??? i am not in need of validation. what i am in need for is for people like you to get off of your MF high horse and stop acting like a MF saint. you know you have copied dvd's like everyone else who posts on this site.

[red lion]

This post has been a great read and im with jarvis1781 in that its probably illegal but acceptible . Was not so sure at first but having read some of the reasons they do make sense ..
Where i live the rental is for 1 day only and a few times i have had to put a dvd back that i have not had time to watch for various reasons..
Just to put another twist what about the distructable disney dvd,s that you keep can you back them up to watch later (as i would assume they belong to you as soon as you have paid for them)

[HAMP]

READ VERY CAREFULLY

what is the diffrence with TIVO, you have (almost) complete control over it just push play on the device that copied it..

new releases comes out the same time as PP or VOD. We not talking about when you just happen to record the event. If the event is saved by TIVO and the event is saved by a copied DVD-RW(that can be erased at anytime)...

and Please, please, I beg you dont answer with something about copying is not legal.. the question is "Whats the diffrence between the two"? you are copying the same event on both, dosent matter what time they showed it on TV, or what day you rented the event or movie, you just have the event on TIVO or a DVD............... SOOOOOOOO Once again, what is the diffrence


ok, another way of asking, why is it ok to copy the event on TIVO but you can't put it on DVD? It should not matter the formatt you use, both should be the same, either you can copy and view when you want or NOT...

[housepig]

you know, every MF who posted on this topic has most likely copied a css protected dvd. get off of your high horses and stop being hipocrytes!!! if you disagree with the original hypothetical question, then just respond---don't act saintly like you never did something that you weren't supposed to do!!!!!!!!!!!

okay, I'll type this very slowly so you can follow along...

whether or not anyone on this forum pirates is irrelevant.

talking about it here is prohibited. advocating it here is prohibited. the owner of this site is willing to contest the idea that backing up something you own is inherently illegal, but he has made it pretty clear that this site does not endorse or advocate piracy, which includes backing up rentals (movies you do not own).

advocating or endorsing piracy of that sort in fact weakens the "Fair Use" arguments upon which this site is based.

and to be specific, if you can't prove it, shut your yap. you haven't been in my house, you haven't seen what I do with my burner. the fact that you do it is your business - don't assume to speak for everyone else here, and keep the fact that you do it off the board.

[HAMP]

Something that is a little different, as far as I know, I should be able to spend my money the way I want to, Maybe I grew up in this country thinking I am free to do what I want. If my bubble is ever broken where the U.S tells me how to spend my money then we are not free as we think.

What I mean by this, you are allowed to give them your money, but they have condition on how to use the Item you bought. To me that’s controlling what goes on in my house, this is my home I do what I want in it. I'm not hurting anyone in my own home. That movie had a budget before it was made, and I know it made the money back and then some before it hit DVD. It would be a damn shame for our government to tell me how to spend my money.

[VinnySem]

you know, every MF who posted on this topic has most likely copied a css protected dvd. get off of your high horses and stop being hipocrytes!!! if you disagree with the original hypothetical question, then just respond---don't act saintly like you never did something that you weren't supposed to do!!!!!!!!!!!

I simply stated that it was illegal and in some cases, unethical. I never said I was an ethical person

[ViRaL1]

FIRST OFF (don't mean to yell, just drawing a bit of attention)...

Here's a new scenario similar to the original post (but still an ethical question)

I own a decent number (coudn't tell you how many) of legally purchased DVDs from probably all of the major studios. My buddy who, as nice as he is and as helpful as he is in a bind, is still a bit of a flake, and I MIGHT let him borrow my new CD but wouldn't even think about loaning him my Godfather boxed set that I paid around $70 for when it was first released. SOOO, I, the owner of the DVD set, copy the originals to RW to be loaned to him and given back when he's done watching them, when I will promptly erase them (not like I need more than 1 copy).

ETHICAL???


P.S. - I'm sure I'll get a lot of crap for asking this AND I don't want to make it a legal issue or anger the mods by having people say that they DO or HAVE broken the law BUT, I'd love to see a show of hands (mainly because I'm too damned lazy to start a poll) of everyone here who hasn't either...

A) broken CSS (just because you own the movie, doesn't change the legality of breaking CSS)

OR

B) copied, whether it be burning, ripping, downloading previously CSS encrypted material

[HAMP]

Call me a criminal then, cause I have backed up all of my movie's, all my movie's are sitting pretty in the case they came in, crack one of the cases open and it will smell like they came off the show room floor!!!!

and believe me, some I had to back-up more then once, well that was about $2 I loss on each one of those instead of the $19.99 when they first come out and then the regular price when the sale is over, but to be HONEST, I know if the orginal was damaged and backing up was not possible, I would not be buying it over and over again I would just be at a loss. Also many of the studio's should be gald about backing up, they so easy to scratch, I wouldn't take the chance on buying the movie's or set of movie's that cost $70-$100 for a season or set, but since now I can protect my investment why not buy them..

[duhmez]

No Confusion here,

this is what i read

Blah Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah, Blah Blah Blah Blah.
Blah Blah Blah Blah,
Blah Blah Blah Blah,
Blah Blah Blah Blah,
Blah Blah Blah Blah,

Break CSS

Blah Blah Blah Blah,
Blah Blah Blah Blah,
Blah Blah Blah Blah,
Blah Blah Blah Blah,

Breaking the CSS is breaking the law.

No it isn't. At least not where I live. This is international forum. It is not illegal in all countries. In Canada cracking css is A O K legally. (Knock wood)

[duhmez]

@ the dude saying"everyone here copies movies illegally"

if you read the terms of use, you are not permitted to discuss illegal copying of movies here, so this statement in and of itself is not alowed in the forum.


Now is copying the rental legal? No one on the board can post that it is, even if it is in their country, because to say "I live in country X and copying rentals there is legal" would be the same as encouraging the act itself, and to encourage copying of rentals is not permited on the board, regardless of any law.

[bugster]

okay, I'll type this very slowly so you can follow along...

whether or not anyone on this forum pirates is irrelevant.

talking about it here is prohibited. advocating it here is prohibited. the owner of this site is willing to contest the idea that backing up something you own is inherently illegal, but he has made it pretty clear that this site does not endorse or advocate piracy, which includes backing up rentals (movies you do not own).

advocating or endorsing piracy of that sort in fact weakens the "Fair Use" arguments upon which this site is based.

and to be specific, if you can't prove it, shut your yap. you haven't been in my house, you haven't seen what I do with my burner. the fact that you do it is your business - don't assume to speak for everyone else here, and keep the fact that you do it off the board.

Well said housepig. Exactly the kind of points I was trying (and obviously failing) to get across with respect to forum policy and rules. I don't understand why so many people have trouble understanding this. Thanks.

[Matteo693]

What if you live on an oil rig?

[bugster]

What if you live on an oil rig?

The forum AUP applies even if you live in outer space :P

I believe an oil rig is like a ship in that the laws of the country to which it is registered apply whilst it is international waters. An oil rig registered in the US is considered US territory and so US laws would apply.

[wings]

@ the dude saying"everyone here copies movies illegally"

if you read the terms of use, you are not permitted to discuss illegal copying of movies here, so this statement in and of itself is not alowed in the forum.


Now is copying the rental legal? No one on the board can post that it is, even if it is in their country, because to say "I live in country X and copying rentals there is legal" would be the same as encouraging the act itself, and to encourage copying of rentals is not permited on the board, regardless of any law.

This is the best post. You are right. No one will say,( Well most won't) yes I do it because it is ilegal here to talk about it. This is a great site for information and don't want to see it gone. My point before was just that you don't talk about it here but yet there are all the How To's on doing it. I mean come on why would you use DVD Shrink? To shrink a 9 gig DVD to a DVDr. Why do you need AnyDVD? If the people here were right about it they would remove it from the site and not help people get this help. If you can't post how to do it, BUT you can wright a detail manual and upload to the How To section.

I think DVDDave had a point.

With that I am done. Now I am off to the Library to check out DVDs,CDs and Books. Until they get made and get rid of librarys because people don't buy books anymore.

[aflowers]

My $0.02 worth:

I think the poster has a valid question, but one very difficult to answer. I, too, try to be an ethical person. I have hundreds of VHS movies I purchased new, or used from the video stores that I am converting to DVD. These are for my own use, and I will keep the original VHS tapes in the closet to prove they're mine. I believe this falls under Fair Use. I refuse to rent a movie (VHS or DVD) and copy it. With that said...

I also have a number of recordings from TV. These, too, are going to DVD since some of them are several years old. Fair Use? I hope so, and think so. Is this a gray area? Firmly established and accepted? You tell me. How about Disney Channel and movie channel recordings?

Now, what about Pay Per View? Would it be legal to record a Pay Per View movie from my satellite service? Ethical? Treat it the same as a rental? Who knows? I wish I did! Does the answer go hand-in-hand with the original poster's question?

I hope this isn't a hijack, since my questions/comments are related to the original discussion. If it is, my apologies and I'll move it!

[wings]

My $0.02 worth:

I think the poster has a valid question, but one very difficult to answer. I, too, try to be an ethical person. I have hundreds of VHS movies I purchased new, or used from the video stores that I am converting to DVD. These are for my own use, and I will keep the original VHS tapes in the closet to prove they're mine. I believe this falls under Fair Use. I refuse to rent a movie (VHS or DVD) and copy it. With that said...

I also have a number of recordings from TV. These, too, are going to DVD since some of them are several years old. Fair Use? I hope so, and think so. Is this a gray area? Firmly established and accepted? You tell me. How about Disney Channel and movie channel recordings?

Now, what about Pay Per View? Would it be legal to record a Pay Per View movie from my satellite service? Ethical? Treat it the same as a rental? Who knows? I wish I did! Does the answer go hand-in-hand with the original poster's question?

I hope this isn't a hijack, since my questions/comments are related to the original discussion. If it is, my apologies and I'll move it!

You ask good questions. The debate continues .

[andkiich]

Just another example of why I would backup my DVDs(and do):

I travel quite a bit for work(as do a lot of my friends). Anyone who travels a lot knows that your stuff can be lost, stolen, damaged. I personally have lost 2 bags flying(thankfully this was before DVD). I have a portable DVD player and some hotels have DVDV palyers in the rooms and usually take between 3-5 movies with me. Backups cost me a dollar a piece, the originals cost me $15+ each.

Which would you rather replace?

[zworg2]

you know, every MF who posted on this topic has most likely copied a css protected dvd. get off of your high horses and stop being hipocrytes!!! if you disagree with the original hypothetical question, then just respond---don't act saintly like you never did something that you weren't supposed to do!!!!!!!!!!!

Where do you learn your manners
Because i suggest you request a refund

IMHO
Yes most people here have probaly copied a DVD at some point.
BUT
Most of those people are doing it under the 'fair usage' aspect.

The rules of this forum CLEARLY state that;
Before you reply, please observe our following forum rules

Do NOT give warez.
Do NOT link to warez .
Do NOT ask for warez.
Do NOT provide information how to obtain warez.
Do NOT advocate warez.
Warez includes downloaded copyrighted movies, movies that are not yet released on VHS/DVD and copying rented movies.

I think that is pretty clear and succinct.

What you do is your chice, but do not have the sheer audacity and arrogance to assume others do the same as you.

Until someone states that they do, or you have alternative proof that they illegally copy DVD's that they do not own, i would BUT OUT

If you dont have anything constructive to add, or guidance to give, or opinion on the ORIGINAL question - DON'T POST

Zworg2

[ViRaL1]

I guess no one is going to take me up on my ethical question OR my 'Pseudo-poll.' It's okay, I'm not bitter.

[wings]

Rule #2 alone is broken. There are links on this very site on programs to download to copy DVD's. (Yes Owned or Rented). ALong with step by step on how to do it. Unless Superman The Movie or Lord Of The Rings is public domain? If you are copying your own DVD's that you made with you Pro Camera then why use DVD Shrink? (By the way is that a Chevy Chase DVD being copied?)DVDX Copy? DVDtoSVCD? Why Anydvd to crack a DVD? This site has helped ALOT of people to make copies, excusse me "Back Up's" of DVD's with links to Software to do so and step by step instructions.

[Supreme2k]

What wings and a few others fail to grasp is that the main debate in this thread is whether copying rented movies is ethical/legal. some of the tools on this site are for "fair use" (backing up DVDs that you own), not for pirating movies. Just as a gun can be used for legal purposes, it can also be used for murder.

ViRaL1,
If you don't trust your buddy with the originals, you shouldn't trust him at all.
Ethically, I see nothing wrong, as long as they are returned. You should charge him though, since that's a bit of work to do just to let someone "borrow" something. Like I said, either lend the originals, or not at all. I'm assuming this guy is over 18 and can pay you back if he damages them.

aflowers,
PPV movies are the same as rentals, and subject to (mostly) the same rules.


A general note regarding time-shifting: for fair use, you must erase the time-shifted material once you have watched it, even if it on "free" television. I think the time limit is three weeks, but don't quote me on that That's not an area that is scrutinized as much as outright pirating, though.

[ViRaL1]

It's not that my buddy's dishonest, I just see how he treats his own DVDs and couldn't imagine entrusting him with something of any real value. I'm sure I'd get the money back eventually, but I'd feel better not giving out my originals.

[Supreme2k]

That's what I meant: trusting him with taking care of your DVDs.

[ViRaL1]

Well, on the other hand, I'm not too worried about him damaging my .50 KHypermedia DVD+RWs. Probably not worth charging him to 'rent' them though. It may not be the simplest thing, but it's cheap and it allows me to protect my investment.

[andkiich]

Rule #2 alone is broken.

Obviously, you have no clue as to what the term WAREZ defines, otherwise you would not have posted that last statement.

At this point it seems to me that you are arguing for the sake of argument, as you have yet to make any valid, reasonable, coherent points.

[jimmalenko]

Rule #2 alone is broken. There are links on this very site on programs to download to copy DVD's. (Yes Owned or Rented). ALong with step by step on how to do it. Unless Superman The Movie or Lord Of The Rings is public domain? If you are copying your own DVD's that you made with you Pro Camera then why use DVD Shrink? (By the way is that a Chevy Chase DVD being copied?)DVDX Copy? DVDtoSVCD? Why Anydvd to crack a DVD? This site has helped ALOT of people to make copies, excusse me "Back Up's" of DVD's with links to Software to do so and step by step instructions.

NO.
Person A makes a home video of their family reunion cricket match in the park that goes for two and a half hours. When converted to MPEG-2 via firewire and authored, said project is around 6GB due to the high bitrate. Why not use DVD Shrink to fit it onto 1 disc ?

There are links and guides on this site to "Back Up" any DVDs that you own under the "Fair Use" theorum/statute. Linking to these guides or programs is not linking to warez unless the end user is using them for purposes not covered under Fair Use. In this case, it is not the duty of the poster of these links to find out if the author of the thread has rented his movie.

Many legitimate people contribute their years of knowledge and experience on this site. There are many people here that have just flown by because they can't copy their rented copy of Finding Nemo and need assistance. All you Johnny-come-lately's should STFU. I agree that the implication is there that you can use this site to copy your rented movies, but do not talk about it on this site. Pretty simple. No one with any brains is ever gonna admit to copying a rented DVD for fear of being banned from this forum.

[Supreme2k]

What you do is your choice, but do not have the sheer audacity and arrogance to assume others do the same as you.

Don't you just love the automatic tool link feature?

I worry that if I leave my dvdidle, I will not be able to do a blindwrite. I also wonder what people think is the #1 DVD Audio Ripper, and what is the 1st DVD ripper you have used? Did you see that cool edit of the "Hey Ya" video featuring Peanuts? I've seen it forty-two times!


Yeah, some of the arguments are just for the sake of arguing or insulting.

[bugster]

What you do is your choice, but do not have the sheer audacity and arrogance to assume others do the same as you.

Don't you just love the automatic tool link feature?

I worry that if I leave my dvdidle, I will not be able to do a blindwrite. I also wonder what people think is the #1 DVD Audio Ripper, and what is the 1st DVD ripper you have used? Did you see that cool edit of the "Hey Ya" video featuring Peanuts? I've seen it forty-two times!


Yeah, some of the arguments are just for the sake of arguing or insulting.

I never spotted that