clean up video noise: "Grainy" from VHS tape

[huntr]

I have Pioneer DVD recorder and I am thinking about making copy of several "Bad" tapes into DVD by storing it into DVD-RW and have the videos go through the noise filter using computer with DVD-R/RW drive to remove the "grainy" screen. The quality of the tapes are good just that there's grainy in the background. Have someone done like this before and what software(s) will be able to do that?

Would like to hear your input.

Thanks!

[Capmaster]

Not sure what you mean by "grainy", but if it's tape noise you can actually improve on the source by capturing to the recorder. The input filter ought to remove a lot of the speckling and fuzziness if it is indeed noise.

[mazinz]

although very timely, you could use an encoder (tmpg) and use the encoder's noise filters on it. They do work wonders. Or you could even lower the sharpness and you may lose some detail but you will also greatly reduce the grain

[lordsmurf]

A JVC HR-S9800U or similar VCR's DNR/TBC and Active Video Calibration would do what you want.

[FulciLives]

Well if you record to your stand alone DVD recorder you are converting the tape to MPEG-2 which is a compression step.

Now RIP that to your computer to apply filters etc. and then once again you have to compress to MPEG-2 to create a new DVD with your computer burner.

So you will be compressing twice.

Not the greatest thing to do!

So use the highest quality mode on the Pioneer to minimize the initial loss from compression step number one. The highest quality recording mode should be approximately one hour.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[huntr]

Thanks for the helpful information. I have done with JVC S-VHS 7600 and it doesn't work. What I meant by "grainy" look like "snowy" in background which may indicate high video noise. Will either TMPGENc and JVC 9800 solve the problem? I have 9800 but it's in repair shop right now.

[FulciLives]

TMPGEnc has a built-in filter but you are probably better off using some of the VirtualDub filters or better yet the AviSynth filters.

There are ALL kinds of filters for ALL kinds of "video noise" problems.

Good place to start is the VirtualDub homepage and the AviSynth homepage as both have links to websites that archive filters for them.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
My favorite filter is Convolution3D for AviSynth ... there is a similiar filter for VirtualDub but I am unsure how to use that one ... unfortunately the documentation with many filters is not the best.

[huntr]

Thanks Fulcilives. I'll try and see which one work the best for me. Does that mean I need to feed into computer from VHS using AVI files because I believe both VirtualDub and Avisynth both use AVI files. Is there a way for me to record VHS using standalone recorder into DVD-RW and have either virtualDUB or AVIsynth filter? Do you think it will work?

Thanks again!

[FulciLives]

Thanks Fulcilives. I'll try and see which one work the best for me. Does that mean I need to feed into computer from VHS using AVI files because I believe both VirtualDub and Avisynth both use AVI files. Is there a way for me to record VHS using standalone recorder into DVD-RW and have either virtualDUB or AVIsynth filter? Do you think it will work?

Thanks again!

You can rip the DVD to your computer and then process it with either VirtualDub or AviSynth ... it doesn't need to be in AVI format.

However because of the double compression you are better off capturing the VHS video direct to the computer if you have a computer capture card or device ... especially one that captures to AVI format.

Even if you only have a MPEG capture device you will probably be better off using that than the stand alone since the computer MPEG capture device can probably go at least 8000kbps if not higher.

I know someone that has a MPEG capture card that can go up to 15000kbps and he captures at 14000kbps (so as not to tax it) then converts to AVI for editing then converts back to MPEG-2 for DVD and despite the double compression you can't really see it ... because he uses such a high bitrate the first time around.

But yeah for cleaning up VHS video direct AVI to computer capture is the best method really.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BrainStorm69]

If you have snow in the video, it could also be a sign that your VCR's video heads need to be cleaned. You might see if that helps.

[lordsmurf]

Wires could be going bad too

[SatStorm]

For that noise, if you use virtualdub, you need the following filters (and in that order)

- Static Noise Reduction (default setting, 6 )
- Frame Merger ( 2 )
- Dynamic Noise Reduction ( 8 )
- Sharpen ( 6 )
Note that you have to interlace / enlarce your source when you use frame merger

An alternative (faster) goes like this (but more loss of picture detail):

- Dynamic Noise Reduction ( 10 )
- 2D Cleaner optimised ( 1 - 1 - 16 )

There is also that flaxen VHS filter, who can easily remove this "grain" noise. This filter combine other filters (DNR, Chroma sifter, etc), optimised them on its own default settings and work "as is" for most cases (expecially if you are NTSC).
Try it, it's free afterall...
All those filters are free!

The faster way (and among the best) is what FulciLives likes: The Convolution3D filter for AviSynth.
But you have to learn how to set up the filter yourself for the best possible results. With the ready scripts other offers you, it is always a matter of luck if the results are the best possible ones for your case / source!

[DVWannaB]

Appreciate the posters and their comments in this thread. I bookmarked this thread until I had the time to do my own test and compare with what you all have said. Many thanks to Satstorm on his input. It was invaluable!!!!

I had a 6 year old tape recorded from analog TV (NTSC). I used a JVC HR-S9800U SVHS (with DNR/TBC & video calibration enabled). That was connected to Datavideo TBC-100, to Canopus ADVC-100 to computer and capture with Scenalyzer (Type 2 AVI, 720x480).

Then I used this chain of filters in Virtualdub to clean up and make it pretty. Going by memory here as I am at work:

deinterlace (unfold)
Video Denoise (default)
Dynamic Noise Reduction (7)
hue/saturation (1, .095, 1)
Smart Smoother HQ (3, 40, 160, 0)
Sharpen (25)
brightness/contrast (+5%, 112%)
MSharpen (default)
Flaxen VHS (default; horizotal +6)
deinterlace (fold)
Null Transform (cut off black and noisy edges)
Smart Resize 352x240 (no resize filter) for VCD
Resize (internal) 720x480 (Precise Bicubic -0.75, I think) for DVD

WOW!!!!!! BEAUTIFUL!!!!!!! I could not believe my final result. I know it has always been said that the processed video cannot look better than the original. I am now willing to change my mind. Good stuff!! I was going to do only half-DVD resolution, but cleaned-up looked so good, I went ahead and did full DVD @ 6 Mbps in TMPG (slow slow slow). Also did a VCD.

Note on the filters. The MSharpe filter is amazing. It works mainly on sharpening edges. I tried encoding without MSharpe. And then with MSharpe and it took almost twice as long. Great filter, but slow as molasses. Then again, it could be a combination filters slowing things down. Who knows. But my experience seems to suggest MSharpe as a "slug" filter culprit in the crime.

ONLY 1 PROB.
On my DVD encoded file, I noticed 2 lines of horizontal jerky motion when there was motion going left to right or right to left. Can anyone give me a hint on what I did wrong here? The VCD using the same filters was perfect. Could it be the resize filter used? VCD, I used smart resize with no resize filter selected. On DVD I use the Virtualdub internal resize filter and used used Precise Bicubic (-.075) and resized from 702x474 to 720x480. Thanks for any input you can provide.

Satstorm are you out there?

[FulciLives]

ONLY 1 PROB.
On my DVD encoded file, I noticed 2 lines of horizontal jerky motion when there was motion going left to right or right to left. Can anyone give me a hint on what I did wrong here? The VCD using the same filters was perfect. Could it be the resize filter used? VCD, I used smart resize with no resize filter selected. On DVD I use the Virtualdub internal resize filter and used used Precise Bicubic (-.075) and resized from 702x474 to 720x480. Thanks for any input you can provide.

Satstorm are you out there?

Do not deinterlace.

Do not resize from 702x474 to 720x480 unless you leave it at 702x474 and simply put black all around it.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
Also 474 is not a good number. You should have used 472 because 472 can be centered with 4 pixels on top and on bottom to get to 480 whereas 474 only has 3 on the top and bottom thus changing the field order.

[SatStorm]

You used too much sharp, so you have a field distortion!
That's why you have this problem in motion.
When you use the sharpen filter, never set it beyond 16 (yeap, that low...). A good value is 8
And use the sharpen filters only at the end of any filter chaine, just before resizing (resizing must be the last action always)

I don't use null transform and I don't crop / cut from virtualdub. I prefer doing those actions at TMPGenc. If you set "keep aspect ratio (2)" on TMPGenc with "4:3" aspect ration, and then you crop the crap lines, TMPGenc at the same time centers the picture, without any distortions. Also, actually TMPGenc don't "cut" those lines, but "mask" them (thats why you can choose the colour of the "croped" area)
I believe this is better than do this task with virtualdub. After all, TMPGenc won't have that way to encode those black areas (the weak point of this encoder).

Also, keep in mind that you can't use the filters at any order. For example:
rmPAL - Static Noise Reducton 8 - Dynamic Noise Reduction 7 - Sharpen 6 - Resize
gives excellent results. But if you use

Resize - Sharpen - Dynamic Noise Reduction - Static Noise Reduction - rmPAL

then the picture is blury, the motion distorted and overall the quality is "grainy"

framemerger is an excellent filter always conbined with deinteralace (unfold) / interlace (fold). That way, it merges fields and not frames, so the result is far better. Add that way and the videodenoise filter before it (only if your source is VHS) and you clean in a fast way the analogue (tape) VHS noise.

Those days I search some new Russian filters. They are excellent, but really - really slow. So slow, that make them useless. If they manage to make those filters faster, then we can kiss goodbye the filters we use today ...

[DVWannaB]

Thanks a BUNCH Fulci & Sat, your input was invaluable. It worked like a charm. You were both right on with the filters chain and the bad resize causing the changing of field order.

Cheers, mates.

[mikesbytes]

deinterlace (unfold)
Video Denoise (default)
Dynamic Noise Reduction (7)
hue/saturation (1, .095, 1)
Smart Smoother HQ (3, 40, 160, 0)
Sharpen (25)
brightness/contrast (+5%, 112%)
MSharpen (default)
Flaxen VHS (default; horizotal +6)
deinterlace (fold)
Null Transform (cut off black and noisy edges)
Smart Resize 352x240 (no resize filter) for VCD
Resize (internal) 720x480 (Precise Bicubic -0.75, I think) for DVD

DVWannaB, your solution would probably apply to old analogue home video. Do you know specifically which filter one should download?

[LSchafroth]

For that noise, if you use virtualdub, you need the following filters (and in that order)

- Static Noise Reduction (default setting, 6 )

Where can I find SNR for Virtualdub? I could not find it anywhere.

Thanks!

LS

[DVWannaB]

deinterlace (unfold)
Video Denoise (default)
Dynamic Noise Reduction (7)
hue/saturation (1, .095, 1)
Smart Smoother HQ (3, 40, 160, 0)
Sharpen (25)
brightness/contrast (+5%, 112%)
MSharpen (default)
Flaxen VHS (default; horizotal +6)
deinterlace (fold)
Null Transform (cut off black and noisy edges)
Smart Resize 352x240 (no resize filter) for VCD
Resize (internal) 720x480 (Precise Bicubic -0.75, I think) for DVD

DVWannaB, your solution would probably apply to old analogue home video. Do you know specifically which filter one should download?

Well, the quicky and easy answer would be to download all the virtualdub filters available and do the tests on your own to see which pleases you most. Try the nueron2 site. He hosts quite a few filters and has links to others. Some of the filters even have a brief description and some have pictures showing the results. There are all small in file size and you will probably need one or another at some point in time.

Also, the above filter was changed. I changed it to:

Deinterlace (unfold)
Video DeNoise (default) link on Nueron2 site
FrameMerger (1) link on Nueron2 site
Deinterlace (fold) internal filter
Sharpen (internal filter) 8
MSharpen (80, 20) from Nueron2 site
Hue/Saturation?Intensity (1, 0.97, 0.95) from Nueron2 site
Brightness/Contrast (+7%, 102%) I believe internal filter

Cut & resize can be done in virtualdub or TMPG. For virtualdub (interlace video), I did this.

Null transform (internal filter) see FulciLives comments above (VERY IMPORTANT). I believe the way it works is that if you add an odd number of pixels on each side of the vertical axis (for example 3), it will change the field order of your video.

Resize (internal filter). Enter the resolution after you have cropped what you wanted. Choose Nearest Neigbor. Enter the final intended resolution in the next available fields.

TO: LSchafroth
I could not find it either. You can substitute if for Video DeNoise and/or Smart Smoother HQ.

[SatStorm]

Just type "Static Noise Reduction" at Google and it is the first in the list!
But I bet there must be a different google approach from US than here in Europe (I read that google do something called "close area search" or something.

Anyway, here is the link
http://www.shdon.com/view.php?doc=vid_snr

This is one of the best and easiest to use filters around. Also one of the fastest.


BTW: I don' t like MSharpen. I use it rarelly and only with cartoons.

[handyguy]

Dvd recorders have their own filters to make them look better. Give it a shot. I know a Panasonic can do a great job. So maybe a Pioneer can.

[mikesbytes]

Thanks SatStorm, I'll try it out on the weekend. I've also found an anti jitter filter that may help with camera shake.

huntr, did you try out any of the filters?

[DVWannaB]

BTW: I don' t like MSharpen. I use it rarelly and only with cartoons.

I didnt either. I dropped it from the line-up. During my experiments I tried Smart Smoother HQ instead of Video DeNoise. SSHQ did a much better job, even at default setting, which is what I used.

Dvd recorders have their own filters to make them look better. Give it a shot. I know a Panasonic can do a great job. So maybe a Pioneer can.

Did not know that. Can you tell us what type of filters they have or just give a brief description? As far as I knew they had just a TBC and a variety of timer recorder settings. Thanks

[SatStorm]

Smart Smoother HQ is a smoother, not a denoiser like video DeNoise

So, when the noise comes from the tape, video DeNoise is a better choise. If the noise come from the transmission (aerial noise for example), then the smoother filters do a better job

[DVWannaB]

Ok, check. Thanks for that tidbit and clarification.

[mikesbytes]

What filter is good for removing scratchy coloured lines from old pal vhsc home video

[DVWannaB]

What filter is good for removing scratchy coloured lines from old pal vhsc home video

Satstorm could answer better than I can, as I believe he has experience with PAL.

I think that any one of Static Noise Reduction, Video Denoise, 2D Cleaner and Dynamic Noise reduction should be able to help that out some. Again, just try them out and see which one works best.

[DVWannaB]

Hey Satstorm & everyone,

It seems I made another error (this is best way to learn, but very painful). In an earlier post I said that The Video Denoise filter was not as effective as SSHQ. I was just at Neuron.net site and found out that I was using the wrong version of this filter. I should have been using the MSU_Denoiser filter (I believe developed by Russian testers). This filter by all reports is excellent. Can be found here for download, with desciption and examples:

http://compression.ru/video/denoising/index_en.html

Live and learn.

[SatStorm]

@mikesbytes: rmPAL helps on this

@DVWannaB: MSU_Denoiser filter is an amazing new filter. It is very slow compared other ones.
The original video DeNoise you first download is good for video noise of the tape. MSU_Denoiser is good for anything

[LSchafroth]

Just type "Static Noise Reduction" at Google and it is the first in the list!
But I bet there must be a different google approach from US than here in Europe (I read that google do something called "close area search" or something.

Good lord! I've searched many times and never found that link! Now..can you point me to my truck??

LS