what can I do?!? (pic)

[substream]

ugh.
For the life of me, I cant figure out what I am doing wrong?



The lines, the blurriness, the horrible video quality. Any suggestions on making this better would be fantastic.

I used vdubmod for the capture, no compression. I tried different filters to help (deinterlace, blur, sharpness, etc((all different dubs))) but no success. My capture device is an ATI aiw 9200 coming in through svideo off the hi8 camcorder. The tape looks soo much better than the capture.
Would a better capture device help me here or am i overlooking something? I get this same quality (none) when I capture through mmc 8 to mpeg2 with videosoap going. what gives??

[Sugar]

May be the field order. Should be top field first for analog capture.

[Vejita-sama]

Those lines are due to interlacing. The question becomes what are you trying to do. If you are planning to encode to MPEG2 then output to SVCD/CVD or DVD then don't worry about it. You're TV is setup to display interlaced source material (requires it in fact) and it'll look fine.

If you final output is VCD or for the PC (both are progressive source only) then you'll want to deinterlace yout video. There are several ways to do this (do a forum search or check out the guides at http://www.doom9.org). The 'simpliest' way is to capture at directly to VCD resolution of 352x240, ie. only capture one field.

VDub and AVISynth have deinterlace filters that work pretty well. I know you said you tried it already but there are a lot of settings/variables and suspect that one of them was not configured corrected. Good luck..

[substream]

Hey Sugar, thanks for the reply.
Where do I check the field order in vdubmod? I looked at capture>prefrences, capture>settings, video>format, and video>source.

I captured with yuy2 (no compression) and the video driver that I have (the only one listed) is Driver 0 - Microsoft WDM Image Capture (Win32).

If that helps or matters.

[substream]

Hi Vejita. Thank you for the response.

My goal is to do video transfers to dvd for myself and a few friends and learn alot along the way.
I have burned the video to dvd (mpeg2 conversion with procoder) and I get the same quality as on the PC, the interlace lines included, unfortunately. Using the AIW MMC to capture straight to mpeg2 (using or not using videosoap), the video is substandard at best. Interlaced lines show on the tv with this manner of capture also.
The quality of the capture is really terrible compared to the tape. I hope to get the dvd video quality equal to the quality of the Hi8 tape.

[Kolosus]

Substream,

I use an ATI AIW 7500, and easily get captures that equal the tape I'm capturing from. So your card may not be the problem here at all.
I'm not as familiar with Vdub as some of the other gentleman on here, so I'll stick to what I use to capture. I use MMC 8.x and capture to Mpeg2.
Make sure you recheck all connections and cables. This sounds silly, but I have run across this before. One bad or poor quality cable is all it takes.
If your sound is integrated into your motherboard, make sure you are using the latest drivers. This may seem to have nothing to do with picture quality, but it can. Seen that too.
Also, check www.lordsmurf.com for good capture settings in MMC.

Do you have these same problems if you capture from a vcr or TV?
Could be an indicator if you do or don't.
I'm just giving some general guidelines to check. Not being there, I'm trying to cover the basics that I can think of offhand.

I'm sure someone else will think of a some things I haven't yet, so keep checking this thread.

Regards.

[substream]

Hola Kolosus and thank you for your insight.

I rechecked my connections from the camera to the breakout box to the card inputs. This is a frame captured in mmc mpeg2, no soap applied



This is a motion shot but it depicts what I am dealing with through most of the video.
I do not have the tv cable plugged into the PC but will go out tomorrow and purchase some coaxial to test the capture.
For capture I have tried vdub, vdubmod, vdub+vcr, MMC, Vegas, and a couple of others. Whether I capture in AVI, MPEG2, or DV, my quality still blows. I have also used various codecs for compression (huffyuv, mainconcept, etc) along with no compression at all. The video still blows. I also tried without capturing audio, but this didnt do any good.

[teegee420]

If you capture to mpeg-2 you can use a software DVD player like Power DVD for playback. It will de-interlace the video(for playback only). I'm pretty sure you'll notice a significant difference.

[J3M]

What are your GOP settings?

[Sugar]

Where do I check the field order in vdubmod? I looked at capture>prefrences, capture>settings, video>format, and video>source.

This should be one of the setting with your capture card, I mean the software going with it.

In my opinion, your problem is definitely more than interlacing.

[FulciLives]

Can you post a short 5 second clip (that would be all we need) and link to it so we can download it and analyze it?

That would be most helpfull.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[substream]

Ok, I have been perusing lordsmurfs info and I am using his capture settings through ati mmc. There were quite a few adjustments that were made but I think this will work. I am unable to find out due to an authoring program that wants to reencode the file from 352x480 to
7(something)x480.
I am trying to get tmpgenc dvd author to work but get an error. I want to use it to burn the dvd to the actual capture settings of 352x480. Once I get the mpeg2 burned to dvd and onto a tv. Ill post the outcome to the thread.
Hey, I appreicate yall's time and effort.

[The_Doman]

I have burned the video to dvd (mpeg2 conversion with procoder) and I get the same quality as on the PC, the interlace lines included

Procoder should give very good results, Maybe there are some settings wrong.??
Only possible reason must be that you have encoded it as NON-interlaced?
Check the source settings in the PROCODER, It should be set as INTERLACED (Bottom field/Top field)
Which one you must choose you have to find out by making some test clips.

[substream]

I finally got the '352x480 lordsmurf method of capturing' to dvd. I THINK it is better. It seems more clear than before.
One thing that was very obvious was some type of distortion in some pic frames. When I saw it I automatically thought of a Jerry Springer episode. You know that effect they use to cover up the boobies? That is what I am seeing at different places. I did cut out a portion of the captured mpeg file that shows this distortion happening. Now, if I can show it to ya'll here....

In this clip, my daughter has a boo boo on her ankle. The distortion is prominent around her foot/calf. Although throughout the video there are places when this distortion shows. Sometimes subtle, other times very apparent.
example.mpg

This was captured with ati aiw 9200 mpeg2 with no videosoap using mmc following lordsmurfs methods and advice on his kickass site.

Can I get rid of the Jerry cover up?

[FulciLives]

I finally got the '352x480 lordsmurf method of capturing' to dvd. I THINK it is better. It seems more clear than before.
One thing that was very obvious was some type of distortion in some pic frames. When I saw it I automatically thought of a Jerry Springer episode. You know that effect they use to cover up the boobies? That is what I am seeing at different places. I did cut out a portion of the captured mpeg file that shows this distortion happening. Now, if I can show it to ya'll here....

In this clip, my daughter has a boo boo on her ankle. The distortion is prominent around her foot/calf. Although throughout the video there are places when this distortion shows. Sometimes subtle, other times very apparent.
example.mpg

This was captured with ati aiw 9200 mpeg2 with no videosoap using mmc following lordsmurfs methods and advice on his kickass site.

Can I get rid of the Jerry cover up?

Out of curiosity what BITRATE did you use for the video? I've found that Half D1 (352x480) hits the MAX at around 5000kbps. Once you start dropping below that it is possible to notice some compression errors here or there although it doesn't really get all that noticeable until you drop below 4000kbps

So knowing what video bitrate you used would help.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[substream]

FulciLives,

I am using a variable bit rate. The settings are as follows (using MMC):

Max Bit Rate- 4.03 M bits/second

Target Bit Rate- 3.92 M bits/second

Motion Estimation Quality- 98 (I assume this is 98% of max 15 MB)

Are the settings to low?

[FulciLives]

FulciLives,

I am using a variable bit rate. The settings are as follows (using MMC):

Max Bit Rate- 4.03 M bits/second

Target Bit Rate- 3.92 M bits/second

Motion Estimation Quality- 98 (I assume this is 98% of max 15 MB)

Are the settings to low?

Settings seem to be OK though you might want to try a straight CBR of 5000kbps or 5.00 M bits/second

I'm not sure how ATI measures the MOTION ESTIMATION QUALITY thing but 98 I guess is pretty high assuming 100 is the highest.

Are you getting any reported dropped frames? Also you are capturing at 29.970fps for NTSC right?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[substream]

Yes, I am capturing @ 29.97.

I will try the cbr @ 5000 and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice.

If 352x480 is good at 5000 mbps, what is a good setting for 720x480?

If I capture from vhs or hi8 @ 720x480, will this be detrimental to the quality of the capture? It seems at that resolution, the frames would be compressed or stretched (not sure which). Thanks again

[dphirschler]

Just a few random thoughts:

1. RTE (real time encoding) is not as good as multipass encoding.

2. Shakey footage (typical of home video and live sporting events) encodes inefficiently. You need a high bitrate to achieve quality.


Darryl

[FulciLives]

Yes, I am capturing @ 29.97.

I will try the cbr @ 5000 and see how it goes. Thanks for the advice.

If 352x480 is good at 5000 mbps, what is a good setting for 720x480?

If I capture from vhs or hi8 @ 720x480, will this be detrimental to the quality of the capture? It seems at that resolution, the frames would be compressed or stretched (not sure which). Thanks again

The "perfect" bitrate for 720x480 is probably a CBR of 7000kbps or higher but then you will only be getting slighly over an hour per disc and that is very inefficient. If you really want to do 720x480 and a CBR of 7000kbps or higher (8000kbps would be MAX) won't fit your footage on a single DVD then either go with Half D1 (so you can use a lower bitrate but still get acceptable quality and more content on the DVD disc) or capture as an AVI and do a 2-pass or multi-pass VBR and even then I would try to keep your AVG at around 6000kbps if possible (maybe 5000bkps at the lowest).

This is for less than crystal clear video such as VHS ... even digital cam footage (if shaky) needs a higher than normal bitrate.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[substream]

dphirschler-

RTE (real time encoding) is not as good as multipass encoding.

How do I get a multipass encode? I wouldn't know where to begin there. Any suggestions?

2. Shakey footage (typical of home video and live sporting events) encodes inefficiently. You need a high bitrate to achieve quality.

The footage is definately shakey, no doubt about it. I'll experiment with the bit rates to get a better understanding. Thanks for the info.

FulciLives-

If you really want to do 720x480 and a CBR of 7000kbps or higher...

It's not that I want to go with a 720x480 image, but at the moment, it is the easiest to capture and burn with. I use DVD Architect to author and burn. It will reencode (I think this is the proper term) the mpeg2 if the resolution is not 720x. So, my thinking is if I encode @ 3xx for a straight burn to DVD, I'll lose quality when DVD Architect reencodes. If I capture at 720, the source will not be reencoded, thus keeping quality. Is this correct on my part?

either go with Half D1 (so you can use a lower bitrate but still get acceptable quality and more content on the DVD disc)

My lack of knowledge will certainly show on this, but, what is Half D1? How and where do I apply this setting?

or capture as an AVI and do a 2-pass or multi-pass VBR and even then I would try to keep your AVG at around 6000kbps if possible (maybe 5000bkps at the lowest).

For an AVI capture, is MMC capable of a 2 pass or multipass? How about vdub?

I appreciate yall's patience with me on this.

[BrainStorm69]

How do I get a multipass encode? I wouldn't know where to begin there. Any suggestions?

>>What's being referred to here is capturing in an AVI format and then
>>doing your encoding to MPEG-2 after the fact with software that uses
>> more than one pass to get the most efficient encode to MPEG-2. You
>>can do this with TMPGEnc.

My lack of knowledge will certainly show on this, but, what is Half D1? How and where do I apply this setting?

>>You've already used it before. Half D1 resolution is 352x480

For an AVI capture, is MMC capable of a 2 pass or multipass? How about vdub?

>>You use 2 pass encoding when you are encoding from AVI to MPEG-2.
>>The encoding software analyzes the captured video (the first pass) for
>>encoding, and then re-analyzes (the second pass) for the most
>>efficient encoding. (simplistic explanation)

[indolikaa]

FulciLives,

I am using a variable bit rate. The settings are as follows (using MMC):

Max Bit Rate- 4.03 M bits/second

Target Bit Rate- 3.92 M bits/second

Motion Estimation Quality- 98 (I assume this is 98% of max 15 MB)

Are the settings to low?

Hell no!

I capture from satellite daily with that setting and have excellent results. The only time I bump it up is for live sports like hockey or football.

Are you 'Encoding Interlaced' when using ATI MMC? I am assuming your source is interlaced...

[BrainStorm69]

How'd my name get associated with that quote?

[indolikaa]

Sorry BrainStorm. Your post beat my edit.

[dphirschler]

Not sure how to encode vbr. You are doing it differently than I do. I capture in AVI and then encode. Looks like you are capturing and encoding in realtime.

But it looks to me like it is definately the shakey footage along with the RTE that is causing that blurred blocking look. Half D1 (352x480) would definately help, essentially doubling your bitrate by halfing your physical resolution. You may also try 704x480 for a slight decrease in resolution and a slight boost in bitrate.


Darryl

[virtual133]

What i would do is deinterlace.

[FulciLives]

What i would do is deinterlace.

There is absolutely NO REASON to deinterlace interlaced video to be played back via DVD on a TV

NONE AT ALL

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Des]

When you author to disk are you keeping the file at 352x480 or are you letting the author program re-encode it up to 704x480? Re-encoding up from that resolution will give you the problem you are seeing.
Also in the ATI MMC recording settings are you checking the "crop video" box? If so you have to set the MPEG compression to DVD MPEG2 and not the plain MPEG2.
I have made both of these mistakes seperately and in combinaton and have gotten results exactly like you describe.
Carefull reading and re-reading of Lord Smurf's site straightened me out.

[dragonkeeper]

Is this an actual clib of the video your getting or has the bitrate been lowered.
Not trying to to arogant or anything like that, but I've been using an All-In-Wonder 128(which is only AGP2 with 32 meg of ram and achive beter quality than that converting VHS 2 DVD at 720X480.
Something isn't adding up here.could u give me a detailed desciption as to your computer hd (Cpu brand,speed, HardDrive rpm are the internal or external,amount of ram, and operating system)
have u defraged the drive latley, a fragmented HD could cause you to take a serious hit on performance.
are any other programs running while your trying to capture, some virus programs will almost scan every file as it is written to the HD.
And finally have you tried a seperate hardware profile when capturing video.

Also if you have the hard drive space you may want to capture your home video to a lossless format use filets in Vdub to clean the video and a another program to clean up the audio, then convert the streams then merg them when u build your DVD project.