mainconcept size problem

[DiablosuX102]

i have an xvid video that is(supposed to be)a full 2.33:1. right now its 640x256 with a ratio of about 2.5:1(really wide). when i convert this video to mpeg2 i can't seem to get the right ratio...i went to details>advanced and changed aspect ratio to 2.21:1 which i thought should be close enough, encoded the whole video, watched with windows media player, everything looked fine, authored/burned it and played on TV and it was full screen...1.333:1. i then tried to "scale" it to the right ratio, i made it 720x312 which as far as i know wasn't doing anything to the resolution, which was still 720x480 encoded just a little to see what it would look like, it was about the right ratio but had black sides....i'm in need of help! i'm sure the answer is right in front of me but i can't figure it out. i just started using mainconcept, i usta use tmpgenc. any help would be great, i dunno what i'm doing here!

thanks, josh

[DiablosuX102]

anyone?

[trenchy]

I have the same problem, I want to scale the format to 16:9 format
but all I get is a full screen movie all out aspect of ratio.

[FulciLives]

People make this SO much harder than need be. It's amazing.

Most MPEG-4 (aka DivX and Xvid) video files have a 4:3 aspect ratio. In short I mean to say that they are NOT anamorphic. Even if widescreen they would be what we call 4:3 widescreen ... just without the black added to the top and bottom.

So here is what you do ...

If the aspect ratio of the original is at least 1.78:1 or wider (such as 2.35:1) then you can do a 16x9 DVD otherwise you should do a 4:3 DVD.

So FIRE up TMPGEnc

First make your life easy and use the WIZARD MODE.
There is a template for 16x9 NTSC and normal NTSC (i.e., 4:3)
Same thing for PAL

So pick the format you want ... Then do the following:

In TMPGEnc use 1:1 VGA as the aspect ratio of the source. For VIDEO ARRANGE METHOD use FULL SCREEN (KEEP ASPECT RATIO).

That's it!

If you used the 16x9 template then you will get a 16x9 DVD otherwise you will get a 4:3 widescreen DVD.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

OK ... I goofed ... you guys said MainConcept ... not TMPGEnc

So sue me.

Use FitCD and Avisynth scripting.

[deaddog]

I keep searching to find an answer to this question. I guess the answer is so obvious that no one ever bothers to reply to mainconcept newbies


For converting to NTSC 16:9
(under crop and scale)
I uncheck "keep proportions"
I keep the width at 720
for the height I use:-
(853.3333 *height ) / width
hence for avi which is 640 *272
MC height = (853.33333 *272) /640 = 362 (rounded to even number)

for converting to PAL 16:9
"MC height" = (1024 * height ) /width

I believe the height has to be an even number.
Why dont you encode a little and comapre the video to tmpgenc output for the same (small amount of) video

[acribb]

For 16 x 9, I have been first encoding in TMPGEnc to 16 x 9 (source as Full screen, fixed aspect ratio 1:1 VGA Divx), then VISUALLY having to compare it to the output of MainConcept. I usually just take the vertical down in 16 increments until it looks about the same. Where did you get the 16 x 9 formula - (853.3333 *height ) / width ?? I'm not sure if it's entirely right. For instance, I have a 640 x 336 divx. Using that formula, my height comes out to 448. By using the 'visual' compare method, I come up with aprox. 480. This shows the least distortion. I would like to be able to do this mathematically to be EXACT. Where does the 853.3333 come from?

[FulciLives]

Take a look at this guide entitled, "Determining Aspect Ratios and Resolutions" by DJRumpy

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/userguides/174200.php

For a short cut try using FitCD

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[deaddog]

For 16 x 9, I have been first encoding in TMPGEnc to 16 x 9 (source as Full screen, fixed aspect ratio 1:1 VGA Divx), then VISUALLY having to compare it to the output of MainConcept. I usually just take the vertical down in 16 increments until it looks about the same. Where did you get the 16 x 9 formula - (853.3333 *height ) / width ?? I'm not sure if it's entirely right. For instance, I have a 640 x 336 divx. Using that formula, my height comes out to 448. By using the 'visual' compare method, I come up with aprox. 480. This shows the least distortion. I would like to be able to do this mathematically to be EXACT. Where does the 853.3333 come from?

Im confused as to how you are using 480 in the MC "crop and scaling" as selecting 480 will produce a dvd with no boarders at all (assuming NTSC).

"my" calculation of 853.333 is dervied from the link FulciLives gives (they call it 852).

Although my calculations appeared good to me, I haven't really got the best eye for these things so my calculations may be flawed.

Having said that I have taken my own advice and just done a comparison with my method for MC and tmpgenc

the source was 640 x 272
which in my method (853.33 * height /width) gave 362 as the pixel height.

I ran a small section it through tmpgenc (coverting to ntsc), and made a copy of the mpeg to the clipboard (all within tmpgenc own preview option).
I received an image that was 720 X 480, with the actual image occupying 720 X 370 (rather than 720 X 362)

So whats eight pixels between friends? I think the answer is enougth to make me think I'm going wrong

[FulciLives]

I have a DivX file that is 640x272 so to help illustrate I loaded this into FitCD

So ... Using FitCD I came up with the following values:

4:3 DVD end result = resize from 640x272 to 720x272

16x9 DVD end result = resize from 640x272 to 720x368 or 704x352

There is no need to argue the 4:3 DVD resize but in the case of resizing to 16x9 DVD most people resize from 640x272 to 720x360 and if I'm not mistaken I believe that is what DJRumpy also says in that guide.

So for 16x9 DVD resize you end up with a window of 720x480 and in that window you have an image of 720x360 with 60 pixels of black above and below the image.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
This is assuming a DivX from a NTSC source to a NTSC DVD

[deaddog]

Thanks for going to the effort of putting the divx into fitcd. I tried it early in the day, but there were too many variabels I was unsure about, namely:-
"ITU-R bt601-4" (something to do with a standard?)
and "blocks -tv overscan"

Actually I am quite interested in the tv overscan option becuase my tv has a massive overscan "issue".

I take it that the scripts fitcd produces are for cinema craft encoder? this is a package I have always shyed away from because while I had the demo I never got it to work. I dont know if its worth the effort (or expense) of going to CCE because tmpgenc and MC both seem to do what I want, however I note a lot of people who know their stuff use CCE.

[FulciLives]

Thanks for going to the effort of putting the divx into fitcd. I tried it early in the day, but there were too many variabels I was unsure about, namely:-
"ITU-R bt601-4" (something to do with a standard?)
and "blocks -tv overscan"

Actually I am quite interested in the tv overscan option becuase my tv has a massive overscan "issue".

I take it that the scripts fitcd produces are for cinema craft encoder? this is a package I have always shyed away from because while I had the demo I never got it to work. I dont know if its worth the effort (or expense) of going to CCE because tmpgenc and MC both seem to do what I want, however I note a lot of people who know their stuff use CCE.

Well you can still use TMPGEnc and use the VIDEO ARRANGE METHOD: CUSTOM SIZE and enter in the values there that FitCD gives you.

You can also use AviSynth scripting with not just CCE but also TMPGEnc as well as MainConcept MPEG encoder.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[acribb]

For 16 x 9, I have been first encoding in TMPGEnc to 16 x 9 (source as Full screen, fixed aspect ratio 1:1 VGA Divx), then VISUALLY having to compare it to the output of MainConcept. I usually just take the vertical down in 16 increments until it looks about the same. Where did you get the 16 x 9 formula - (853.3333 *height ) / width ?? I'm not sure if it's entirely right. For instance, I have a 640 x 336 divx. Using that formula, my height comes out to 448. By using the 'visual' compare method, I come up with aprox. 480. This shows the least distortion. I would like to be able to do this mathematically to be EXACT. Where does the 853.3333 come from?

Sorry! I meant 464, NOT 480 (480 would be no change at all, sorry, was tired), and amazingly enough FitCd comes out with that number! Right on. Now I have a tool I can use! Thanks for the help!

[FulciLives]

If this helps at all ... I'd like to point out ...

16x9 is stored in the standard DVD frame size of 720x480 but on a 16x9 display this gets stretched out to 852x480 so as to "correct" the aspect ratio (since 720x480 in 16x9 is stretched).

To resize 16x9 to a 4:3 display you resize 720x480 to 720x360 with 60 pixels of black on the top and bottom (to get back to 720x480).

This is of course for NTSC

For PAL 16x9 gets stretched out to 852x576

For 16x9 PAL to 4:3 PAL you resize 720x576 to 720x432 with 72 pixels of black on the top and bottom (to get back to 720x576)

Hope this helps.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[acribb]

Thanks John. Yeah, also I did notice with FitCd, you need to check Anamorphic on the output to work well with a 16 x 9 TV. I would assume you DON'T check it if you are working on a 4 x 3 TV and want original aspect.
Pretty much just play with the settings on the right until the real aspect on the right is not in red. Actually with a 640 x 336 Divx, I come out with 460 for the height. This is EXACTLY what TMPGEnc produces, so i'm satisfied. I don't think the blocks of overscan are necessary (there is none on a plasma and it looks fine on the 4:3 Sony when in enhanced 16 x 9 mode). Also, the round to 4 = mmx optimized seems to work also.
I'm glad you guys helped me figure this out. Thanks again.
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[Jukka]

Ok,

I asked this many months ago and got no joy, so I just played around and managed to figure out the crop/scale options then also managed to verify it with DJ Rumpys guide on aspect ratios, etc. Don't ask me how I did that I'd had a few beers at the time, but luckily I wrote it all down!

If your avi is 640 x 256 (with no black bars anywhere) then the film is 2.5:1 aspect (weird, but I've had one of these could be the same one as yours!), as a quick and dirty here we go.

1. Fire up Mainconcept (v1.4 onwards) and open the XVID.
2. Click the 'Details' button.
3. Click 'Crop & Scale'.
4. Uncheck 'Keep Proportions'.
5. In the height box enter the number from the chart below.
6. Click OK.
7. Now click advanced.
8. Choose aspect ratio '16:9 Display'.
9. Click OK.
10. Click OK again.
11. Click Convert.
12. PLay back in PowerDVD or something.

This has worked for me (I have a widescreen TV and it all looks good, have never tried it on a fullscreen TV).

The aspect ratios and related height numbers are:


ASPECT PAL NTSC
----------------------------------------------------------
2.50:1 412 340
----------------------------------------------------------
2.35:1 436 364
----------------------------------------------------------
1.85:1 554 462
----------------------------------------------------------
1.78:1 576 480
----------------------------------------------------------

For other aspects just work off the 2.35:1 one, e.g. if avi is 2:1 then you would use 512 (2.35 / 2 * 436). Make sure the number is even.

If your avi has blackbars at the sides then some kind of cropping will need to be done (which may affect the height figure as it will change the aspect ratio - work out the new aspect and then use the table above to help), however I have never used that and the manual is pants so some trial and error will be needed.

Hope this helps - let us know how you get on,

Jukka