How can I build a high definition DVR with a computer?

[jdcrowley]

Do media center computers capture high definition TV, play back with high definition quality, and record near high definition quality to DVD? I looked at hp media center computers and couldn't find anyone who knew for sure. Gateway and Dell also make media center computers. But I've seen comments about all of them that the quality of the recorded image is mixed.

If media centers don't do a good job of this, can I put together my own computer that does? I know that high definition DVRs exist, because Comcast rents them. Which TV tuner cards record HD? What specifications do I need to look for. I think MPEG 2 is DVD quality, but not HD quality. What file format does HD use?

How can I put together a computer that would allow me to record and replay high definition TV and burn programs to DVD with DVD quality?

[FulciLives]

If you truely want to record in HDTV then the easy way is to use a JVC D-VHS VCR which is capable of recording true HD to digital video tape.

There are a few computer based capture cards that can capture HDTV but we hardly ever talk about those on this website. As far as I know there are many "issues" with such a setup. For more info on the computer based solution you might want to check out the AVS FORUM GROUP as they have a forum dedicated to HTPC aka Home Theater PC's

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

P.S.
You can't put HDTV quality on a DVD and play it in a stand alone DVD player. The official DVD spec only handles 480i or 480P for NTSC

[eas]

One issue is that Digital TV broadcasts including HDTV are, or will soon be, subject to recording restrictions from the broadcast flag which recording software will be expected to honor.

Let your congressperson know if you think this sucks.

[SatStorm]

Then a factory in china gonna produce a "universal HDTV" capture card, and the next day third party drivers gonna appear in the net, making those restrictions a funny joke.
A few weeks later, nvidia gonna release a "beta untested version" of their drivers for their HDTV capable capture cards, overiding all those limitations (like wdm 1.08 for macrovision...)
Meanwhile, Seca 2 just hacked in Europe and the HDTV channel "Euro1080" can be captured and stored on any PC with a skymaster 2 card, with a cost of 60 euros...

When the big ones gonna realise that they can limit people's will?

[jdcrowley]

FulciLives,

That forum is just what I was looking for. Thanks.

[FulciLives]

FulciLives,

That forum is just what I was looking for. Thanks.

They are a bit too "crazed" for me at times with their whinings about how some $1,000 A/C conditioner still let's interference through or how the only way to get a decent DVD image is to use a $300 ultra duper super comonpent video cable etc. but hey it is a good source of information.

Be warned though if you don't make a lot of money you will get sick of that site sooner than later

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[SHS]

SatStorm may guest it you don't know jake and I can sure no drivers hack is going get around this after all this will be build in to the Hardware it self so there for you SOL.

[ROBERT BLACK]

Then a factory in china gonna produce a "universal HDTV" capture card, and the next day third party drivers gonna appear in the net, making those restrictions a funny joke.

From what I understand it's already in the works making those broadcast flag restrictions a forgone conclusion.

[Xesdeeni]

The broadcast flag is not in place yet. Once it is, it will be just that...a flag. It is not encryption. Current hardware, including capture cards, TVs, D-VHS VCRs, etc., will still work whether the flag is on or off. And unless they pass a new law before then, it will not be against the law to ignore it (the DMCA applies to encryption), so long as you follow the same rules as today (you can record the show, you just can't sell it). Of course, those older devices will eventually wear out. In the long run, if we let them force the products to honor the flag (expecially with legislation), we're under the networks' control. Consider this when you purchase HD products in the future. Imagine a Superbowl Sunday that you have to work (or substitute your favorite show), but because they've flipped the do-not-copy bit, you can't watch it when you get home, because you aren't allowed to record it. Sure, they MAY not do that...but they can, and eventually...they will.

As for DVR for HD: I am please with my HTPC based on the MyHD card. The only significant issue is that I can't play one program while viewing another that I previously recording, which means I can't freeze live programs either. The advantage of this card is that it uses hardware decoding, so the PC itself doesn't have to be as powerful. Other cards like the FusionHDTV will do the capture, but use the PC to play back. This requires a fairly powerful machine (2+GHz). Also, if your TV wants 1080i input, you'll need a very new and more expensive video card. But you can capture one and play back another and pause live TV.

Xesdeeni

[spectroelectro]

That's why it's crucial to build an HDTV PVR *now*. Mfrs are required to impelmenet copy prohibit upon sensing the broadcast flag but *only* in video cap cards sold after 5 July 2005. So if you build your own HDTV video cap card PVR today, it should be able to cap the all-HDTV 'casts when TV broadcasts go all-digital.
Then I can kill my cable TV connection, cap HDTV over digital off-air broadcasts for free, and the big 5 media conglomerates can suck the sweat off a dead man's balls.

[SatStorm]

Hardware to overide specific restrictions gonna exist as long as there is a market for it. And, the correct drivers (which will be 'third party" of course) gonna activate one way or other the things from the hardware the users wish..

The best example: The DVD standalones... At first, multiregion and macrovision free was a wild dream for them. It was hardware built in restrictions, right?
Which standalone today can't overide those 2 things?
On the most difficult cases, you simply need to change the firmware. On the easy one, push a few buttons to the remote...
Why this happend? Simply: Big ones saw their costumers buy standalones which overide those restrictions. So, soon or later, they follow the well known phrase: when you can't beat them, join them.
Even Sony did it...

The Digital Video Broadcast standard (DVB), which is used all around the world except USA, is exactly that: a standard. You can't modified it simply like that. Adding a flag yes, multiplex it in a weird way also yes (like scopus do in Sky Italia). But the TS stream has to be DVB and since we can grabb the TS stream, we can extract later audio and video, same way we can rip a DVD disc and with DVD2avi load vobs for frameserving without issues...
Even that once was impossible.

[eas]

I tend to agree, SatStorm, building restrictions into hardware just creates a gap that demands filling, creating a profitable niche for anyone willing to go around it.

The rise of realtively cheap general purpose silicon to support "Software Radios" will make it even harder to regulate.

[indolikaa]

SatStorm may guest it you don't know jake and I can sure no drivers hack is going get around this after all this will be build in to the Hardware it self so there for you SOL.

Let me translate this for you, SatStorm.

"SatStorm, my guess is you don't know jack shit. And I can assure you no drivers hack is going to get around this. After all, this will be built into the hardware itself. And you'll be SOL!"

Make more sense now?

[SatStorm]

Added to my favorite list

[SHS]

indolikaa thank you but I didn't mean "shit"
SatStorm your from Europe thing are diff in that part of world but as you may or may not know things are also changing there to.
Digital Video Broadcast (DVB) for Europe it same thing as SDTV or DTV but the tuner are diff which bring rigth back age old problem of PAL and NTSC Compatible, In the US Cable, Satellite system they use it like DVB but really called SDTV or DTV which been around for years but AIR Broadcast they are skiping it and going rigth to HDTV on Local AIR Broadcast.
This how the broadcast flag works it allow you to Record any Show and you can copy the file to any other device but here the catch 22 that file only play back on the device it was record from.

[SatStorm]

SHS, beyond the fact that you act like a drunk cowboy today (why? you are usually a great poster), it seems that you know nothing about DVB....
Start reading this http://www.coolstf.com/mpeg/index.html

My Job is to cover all the technology changes worldwide. So I know FIRST HAND, those things
My avatar is "Sat" Storm for a reason...

[indolikaa]

Now that is a cool resource, SatStorm.

[SHS]

SatStorm they don't called it DVB they call it DTV (DigitalTV) for somebody that quote FIRST HAND, on those things like this you need to watch Dishnetwork and DirecTV them self.
Beside that this rigth place for resource.
http://ekb.dbstalk.com/
Keep in mind that Dishnetwork and DirecTV are Proprietary

[SatStorm]

DVB means Digital Video Broadcast. It is for cable, satellite and aerial (terrestrial).

DTV is a general term for the digital tv transmissions, used worldwide. DVB ones included.

Just read the link...

[indolikaa]

That's funny, because my EchoStar 5000 DiSH Network PVR receiver has the DVB/MPEG-2 logo on it. And last time I checked it was still receiving US-based programming from orbital positions 110° and 119° with this thing...

[SHS]

Mine don't indolikaa but all I have reg DP301.
Yes the general term DVB which is not used worldwide like should be like where you live they called DVB but you where walk in US store here like let say CompUSA, CC, Bestbuy, etc, etc and ask for DVB they think your of rockee but if for ask DTV they usely take TV set and if watch Dishnetwork or DirecTV they never ever say DVB but do say DigitalTV or DSS.

[SatStorm]

No...
The term DVB is worldwide used
The term DTV is used only in USA

I don't care if in the very small part of the world called USA, people use there own terms and words.
This is an international forum, so we talking international here.

If you SHS wish to talk american english, do it on an USA only forum. Since you post here, you have to use global international terms

[SatStorm]

And also this DSS of yours, is a totally ultra local USA thing.

A thing so insignificant worldwide, we don't have even to mention it on international forums...

[SHS]

Hmm last time I check DSS = Digital Satellite Services was around world or was thing thinking this DSS = DirecTV Satellite Services?.

[SatStorm]

copy / paste from the link I provided to you

DSS - the "other other" MPEG-2 satellite standard used in North Amercia
Before the MPEG-2 and DVB standards were ratified, the first all-digital DBS service was launched in the USA - DIRECTV. DIRECTV uses a unique system called DSS, invented in part by Thomson of France. Systems like DCII and DVB both model themselves on the MPEG-2 transport stream model, but DSS really is very different.
Today, the DSS system is used for DIRECTV's DBS service in the USA (broadcast from 101, 110 and 119 degrees west), the DIRECTV Latin America service (broadcast on Galaxy 8i at 95 degrees west) and for some DirecPC Internet over satellite channels. DSS supports AC3 audio as an option (most channels use MPEG-1 Level 2) and also supports HDTV.

What details are known about DSS?
A slight warning - the DSS "standard" is proprietary belonging to DIRECTV. Unlike DVB, documentation on the standard is not available - this information has been put together by talking to people in the industry. If you find errors in this section or have information to add, please contact us.
DSS uses QPSK modulation for the satellite downlink, just like DVB, however, it's packets are 127 bytes in length and not 188 bytes. The MPEG-2 specification chose 188 byte packets for compatibility with ATM networks. We don't know the reasoning for DSS using 127 byte packets.
DSS uses the same type of error correction and detection algorithms used by DVB (Viterbi and Reed-Solomon), but again there are differences - DSS uses a 6/7 FEC coding for many of it's high-power transponders and has a different puncture rate and randomizer. These differences along with the transport stream packet length make DSS and DVB receivers totally incompatible at this time.
How does DSS handle things like the program guide, network tables etc?
The DSS system uses a thing called the Master Program Guide (MPG). This stream has all of the information found in the EIT, SDT, NIT, etc. in the DVB system. It tells the IRD what satellite transponders are available and what code rates they have (like DVB's NIT), it tells the IRD which virtual channels exist ("viewer channels") and which PIDs and PID types comprise each channel (rather like the DVB SDT).
The single MPG gives all of the PID and transponder assignments for all channels and all transponders, and so the MPG is a "one-stop shop" vs. the DVB approach of many smaller tables. The MPG also has two hours worth of programs and program titles, and then "points" to extension guides for data out to two days in the future. New US DIRECTV IRDs also have a feature called "Advanced Program Guide", which works a little more like the DVB EIT and allows program info out to weeks in the future.

[trevlac]

DSS

Just another reason to like Charlie. Besides the viacom thing.

-----------------

To keep in the spirit of this thread, I used bablefish to translate the above from English to German and back to English.

To wiecharlien dss straight line another reason. Except viacom the thing

[Champion_R]

DTV is used to describe Digital Television wether it be DVB satellite, cable, terrestrial, ATSC or DSS. DVB is a Digital TV standard and so are ATSC and DSS.

AFAIK, DVB is only used for Satellie in the US but in the UK and throughout Europe, all 3 DVB standards are used. Australia also makes use of all 3 DVB flavours.

[satviewer2000]

This is somewhat off topic, but I have an HDTV IRD (sat receiver) which can output using the typical 3 color component outputs into my HDTV (1080i) with component inputs.

What I want to know, is there's a really cheap Hauppague card called the WinTV-HD which can apparently capture HD signals. I have read and read the specs, but I can't understand what are the capabities of the card.

The main thing I want to know is if it can capture HDTV resolution output from my RGB output in the receiver and record this HDTV output on my computer HD.

Does anyone know if this capture card is capable of doing such a thing?

[handyguy]

You could get a blue ray recorder. These take 23 gig disks & on that you can put a little more than 2 hours of HDTV.

[pyrohydra]

If you have an HD cable box with 1394 out, and a Mac, you can get a program called VirtualDVHS, which basically emulates a D-VHS unit on your Mac, allowing you to download a transport stream from a particular channel. I believe this is also possible on a PC, but the setup is rather involved, and the appropriate drivers aren't free.