How to achieve same video quality of DVD/MPG-2 using DVIX

[nufdude]

I am capturing from my CAMCORDER. Using Canopus 1394 capture card. The AVI (DV) I get is from the capture is very decent (I would say meets my requirements). As we know the next part is to save to AVI to more “storable” format i.e. MPG2 / DVD or Divx.

I use TMPEGEnc to convert to DVD/MPEG2 (Rather than m2v & wav, I just create MPG2 file). For bit rates, in TMPEGEnc settings, I got as 2-pass VBR with Avg 7000kbits min 2000kbits and max 8000kbits (using the defaults basically). Audio also default 384kbs. The output MPEG 2 generated is decent. (Again meets my requirements).

Now the problem is that I don’t own a DVDR/W drive. So I need to back these on regular 700MB CDs. Since I can fit only 12 min or so of video at these bit rates, I started exploring DivX /MPEG4.

I used Virtual dub to convert my raw / DV AVI to Divx 5.1.1. (I am using the standard free one, not the Pro codec . Also had to install Panasonic DV Codec for Virtual dub to recognize the AVI) I do a 2 pass encoding (basically 1-pass then n-pass) using 7000kbits as avg bit rate. For audio I am using LAME ACM MP3 with 48kHz sampling @ 128kbs bit rate stereo.
I have noticed many issues,

1. The final generated is totally out of sync with Audio (almost about 2 secs or so). Is this because of the MP3 encoder I used? Should I be just leaving it as PCM? Since audio from Camcoder is just voice I don’t need very high sampling.

2. Generated video quality is poor! It is all blocky. At times video fames are frozen. I am playing back in Window Media player (7.1) and Real Video G8. CPU utilization is 100%. Could the CPU utilization is the issue? (For my computer details see below).

3.Finally and the major one, the reason I started playing with Divx is because I was under the impression that Using the MPEG4/Divx codec I can get any where 1:4 to 1:10 compression. But the files I got are almost the same size of the MPEG2. Bit rate calculators too give about the same file sizes I got.

3 a.So basically if the file sizes are same, what is the advantage of Divx? Is it advantages if I got multiple audio tracks or AC3 sound?
3.b.OR did I miss something here?

I would appreciate if some one can kindly clarify these for me.

Thanks
NufDude

My System:
Intel-P3 –933; PC 133 384MB Ram; Onboard AGP 2x (16MB shared Video memory)
Canopus 1394 Capture card Using the Vegas 3.0 LE supplied with the card.
WesternDigital 80GB 7200RPM
Toshiba DVD/CDR/W combo drive
Windows 2000/SP4.
Virtual dub & Mod V 1.5.10/ Divx Standard-Free Codec 5.1.1
TMEGEnc

[Richard_G]

You want the simple answer? Buy a DVDR drive and leave as mpeg-2 rather than compressing by a huge amount and losing all the quality.

[RabidDog]

you can and do get almost exactly the same quality from divx at 1/4 to 1/8 the filesize simply bcos divx is a more effecient video compression technique. However you are using video rates for divx that are way too high (7000kb) you should use a bitrate more in the line of 700-1500kb. Try dr divx (trial) to see if that solves your problems. it accepts AVI as input.

[daamon]

You want the simple answer? Buy a DVDR drive and leave as mpeg-2 rather than compressing by a huge amount and losing all the quality.

nufdude, I gotta totally agree with this. Nowadays, DVD re-writers are inexpensive and you will be sooo glad you did.

If you're in the UK (where are you? Update your profile), check out http://www.blankdiscshop.co.uk for re-writers and media.

Or, you can look into making an SVCD - can be done using TMPGEnc (there's a template, no changes required). You can get a reasonable amount of time on a 700Mb disc (can't remember how much). Also, for SVCD's, look into VCDEasy.

Divx from a DV cam = desperate measures, especially for the effort...

[Suntan]

First things first, dump WMP and go get the latest Zoomplayer (3.31 I believe). Next try Xvid (vs. Divx) I personally believe that it now gives better quality than Divx and is totally freeware (no spyware to get the advanced features.)

If you want to give Xvid a try download it from here:http://koepi.roeder.goe.net/xvid.shtml

Just get the latest release binary (currently 1.0 RC3)

Note: You should go into the Divx decoder setup and uncheck where it says something like "decode generic MP4 streams" if you don't do that then the Divx codec will try to decode the stream instead of the Xvid codec.

The following is Vdub workflow that I wrote up for a howto on encoding movies for use on an IPAQ PPC (modified where needed to suit your requirements so the numbering isn't correct) Give it a shot and see hw it looks. See if you like the video quality first, then we can look into the audio sync problems.


Step D) Encode Video Stream with Vdub
1)Select File->Open Video File…
2)Open the AVI file
3)Select Audio->No Audio
4)Select Video->Full Processing Mode
6)Press Ctrl-P
7)Scroll down and highlight “Xvid MPEG-4 Codec” then Click “Configure”
8)Configure Xvid for the first pass (Leave all settings at their default except as stated)
A)Select “Twopass-1st pass” from the “Encoding Type:” dropdown list
B)Click “More…” next to “AS @ L5”
E)Uncheck “Packed bitstream”
EE) Select "MPEG" from the "Quantization Type" dropdown menu
EEE)Check Q-pel (if you plan to use only the computer to watch it in the future, otherwise leave it unchecked)
F)Click “OK”
G)Click “Advanced Options…”
H)Select “4-Wide Search” in the “VHQ mode:” dropdown list
I)Check “Turbo”
J)Select the “Quantization” Tab
K)Change the Min I P and B frame Quantizers from 1 to 2
L)Check “Trellis quantization”
M)Select the “Debug” Tab
O)Uncheck Display encoding status
P)Click the “Oks” three times
9)Save the first pass
A)Press F7
B)Give the movie a name like “MovieXX Video Stream”
C)Check “Don’t run this job now; add it to job control so I can run it in batch mode”
D)Click “OK”
10)Press Ctrl-P then Configure
11)Configure Xvid for the second pass (Leave all settings as they were for pass 1 except as stated)
A)Select “Twopass-2nd pass” from the “Encoding Type:” dropdown list
B)Add a size in the “Target size” space, or Click on the “target size” button and input a target bitrate (I would start with a bitrate of about 1500kbps if it is at DVD resolutions but YMMV)
C)Click “OKs” two times
12)Save the second pass
A)Press F7
B)Check “Don’t run this job now; add it to job control so I can run it in batch mode”
C)Click “OK”
13)Run the two passes
A)Press F4
B)Click “Start”
C)Optionally, you can check Options->”Shutdown when finished” before you press start if you want the computer to automatically shut down after it is done encoding the video

-Suntan

[Suntan]

Opps, here is the right link: http://koepi.roeder.goe.net/xvid.shtml

[daamon]

Forgot to say - your settings for 2-Pass VBR in TMPGEnc look good, maybe consider an average of 6,000 would be my only comment.

And forgot to ask, once you've got your nice crisp DV AVI into Divx (or Xvid - following the simple, short steps above compared to encoding to MPEG2 that you're already used to...) what were you planning to do next?

I know you said you wanted to put it onto a CD but, unless your DVD player supports Divx / Xvid, you're gonna be restricted to watching on your PC.

Whereas, with SVCD or MPEG2 on DVD you can have menus (maybe DVD only) and chapters (both) etc., watching it in your lounge, sitting in a comfy chair...

Sorry Suntan... , couldn't resist.

[Suntan]

No problem daamon, as it is an important point to consider.

However, with respect to comfy chair in the lounge. I can sit comfortably on my couch, in the living room, and listen to my whole audio collection, look at my whole picture ablum and watch my whole movie collection (with dolby digital surround sound) all controlled by my one remote. I don't even have to get up to change a disc or turn the computer on/off (which is located upstairs in the office). 8)

...Haven't gotten the Better Half to let me put a refrigerater or toliet next to the couch yet so I am still working on it though.

-Suntan

[daamon]

I can sit comfortably on my couch, in the living room, and listen to my whole audio collection, look at my whole picture ablum and watch my whole movie collection (with dolby digital surround sound) all controlled by my one remote. I don't even have to get up to change a disc or turn the computer on/off (which is located upstairs in the office). 8)

OK, you the man...

...Haven't gotten the Better Half to let me put a refrigerater or toliet next to the couch yet so I am still working on it though.

Well, maybe she is... The day will come when it comes down to the fridge by the couch in the living room, or her. Good luck, my friend...

[nufdude]

Thanks for all your suggestions.
I am in USA. I am looking for DVDr Drives.
But my System is also not a too great machine. the motherboard is about to die on me.. Recently bought a new powersupply.
I am looking into geting a full new system this summer.

Ok, back to some of the obervations, I will try the Zoom player & XVID.

Yeah, Divx is only for PC, but it wont be too far before standalones support this format. (same as MP3..)

for now, if I can to get store the captures in lower file sizes, then fewer disks to store! less frequent to move off the couch!

Suntan:
I will try the steps thx..


I will post my results later this weekend..

[nufdude]

Well as Suntan detailed out, I downloaded XVID and used that to encode
using the steps as mentioned. (I don't know what all those advanced settings are, but just followed.)

Any way the final out come is much better. I dont have those "frame locks" as before.

Only this was when I played back, the video was playing in "slow-motion". Since no audio, I can;t tell about audio.
The CPU was at 100% I played in WMP7, RV, Zoomplayer & PowerDVD4. It was the same.
So that makes me believe that
1. either my CPU horsepower is not sufficent enough to decode while play back or
2. still I may have problems encoding.

As I get time, I will change the bit rate to a lower number and see if that helps. (I have some other DIVX files that I downloaded (not illegal movies, but sample clips) which are in about avg 600-1000bps on the bitrate. they play back fine).

For now, I have decided to go with MPEG-2 using TMPEGEnc. I will just buy a DVDR drive (May be NEC)..

I will come back to this may in a couple of weeks when I get more time.

Again thanks for all your comments.
Nuf Dude

[Suntan]

@nufdude

OK, Didn't see that you were using a PII @ 933. Xvid's decoder is very cpu intensive. Getting a burner sounds like a good idea. Regardless of wheather or not you get this working if you do a lot of handycam stuff you will run out of space on the 80 gig hd sooner or later and I think this whole dvd burner fad might take off (what I mean is you will probably find it handy for general data backup regardless.)

But if you still would like to try and get Xvid up and running you should look at running ffdshow. Download a binary from Atho's site: http://athos.leffe.dnsalias.com/ I have been using "ffdshow-20040225.exe" without a problem for a few weeks now but you could try the latest one too. Just run the exe and it will install and ask you which formats you want it to decode (you can change these later too) pick xvid for sure. ffdshow uses much less cpu so you should be able to watch it. If you want to take it a step further (and you have DirectX 9.0b installed) you can change the overlay used in Zoomplayer from hardware to vmr9. It gives smoother/better picture than the defualt hardware overlay I think. Let me know if you can't find it in the Zoomplayer options.

-Suntan

[nufdude]

Well, wanted to report back what I finally achieved.

(Sorry, I gave up on XVID because it has too many setting. I wanted to be a bit transparent to complexity and my resources (CPU etc) limited me)

After lots of experimenting with DIVX 5.1.1, I finally settled with average 2500k-bit rate and 3-pass Encoding. This has given me a decent quality as MPEG2 (Or I should say I am satisfied with the quality it gave). This was giving a 1:3 compression compared to MPEG2 (VBR 2000k – 8000k bit rate). I.e., A 2 min MPEG2 (121Meg) file was reduced to a 40Meg file (using Lame ACM MP3 CBR 128k for Audio compression).

When I played back the DIVX on my PC I was seeing occasionally “blocky” images, frozen frames and CPU utilization was 100%. After reading the DIVX user manual I understood that it could be decoder and not the encoder. So I converted the DVIX to MPEG-2 (using TMPEGEnc). The resultant was almost the same as the original (Not 100% same but pretty close). (This was a test to make sure that the encoder worked fine)

Anyway now I can get about 35min of video on a 700mb CD or about 200 min on a 4.7GB DVDR.

Thanks again for all the help.