How can I protect my VCDs or DVDs being copied?

[monstermash]

I believe DVD Studio Pro can offer ccs protection but my mac wont run it (OS 9.2). Anyway thats not what I intend to do. Even I now have the knowlege to backup my kids discs so if anyone wanted to copy the disc that much then they could or at least know someone who could. The reason I keep the discs so reasonable in price is to deter people from copying them. Most people dont have the equipment / materials or time to produce the quality I sell, so to save maybe £5 is it really worth it.
For example would a mother/father/aunt/grandparent be happy with two cheap jumpy discs in a paper sleeve, when the couple have two discs which play well, are fully printed in a nice box with a professionally printed cover that only cost £15.
I cant stress enough that I want as many copies out there as possible, but would hate to see bad copies of my work being used as an example of what i produce.

[jaxxboss]

Monster, ur earlier quote:

It kind of gets my goat when I spend hours filming, editing, encoding, authoring then burning for someone to come along and copy in 15 or 30 minutes

then you state that:

For example would a mother/father/aunt/grandparent be happy with two cheap jumpy discs in a paper sleeve

. Seems you contradict urself. We all know that u work hard in making the dvd discs for these people, but the fact remains is that if they have the capability then they will indeed make copies. Again, if they can do this then they are basically hiring you to shoot the video and edit it. As far as making the discs, oh well, thats life. Its pretty much legal, like it or not ....and apparently you do not like it.

[monstermash]

I dont really think its a contradiction. I dont know that anyone has ever copied a DVD but Id be mighty pissed if someone never booked me because what they think is mine isnt really. I feel Ive got the setup to deter people with low price/ high quality.
One other point is I do work for another cameraman (editing copying and authoring) and one of his customers asked specifically for a DVD-R non dual layer disc of his wedding. He refused and said he would do so only if he ordered 5 copies and paid £150 extra for the copyright to the film.
I personally think that is over the top and extremely heavy handed.
If someone asked me the same thing I would at the very least offer them advice to do it correctly with the right kind of materials. Again for no profit but to protect my reputation.
By the way his customer paid for the copyright and 5 sets of discs £400 all in. (mug)

[crashnburn]

dude, if there is a way to do this then what's the purpose of this website? If you think it can be done then don't you think movie prod studios will be using it by now instead of wasting millions of $$$$$ asking for government intervention.

[monstermash]

I dont think youve read the whole thread. I did say that even I can backup my kids discs. I also said that I had no intention of trying to ccs protect my discs, the protection of my reputation comes from low price and high quality not just of the video but as a complete package.

[Sifaga]

Hey Monster,

thanks for the reply

interesting post

by your use of the £ instead of the $ i assume your in england which is a shame cause i could of used you for an upcoming wedding in the family
.

[monstermash]

Woah you just went way wide of the mark Im in SCOTLAND. LOL
It has been a good subject and I really appreciate everyones point.
Its just I have a different reason for not wanting people to copy my work, they can do it if they want but never pass it off as mine. Its not always about how much you can screw the customer for, I get huge satisfaction from seeing people enjoy my work and love when they come back and order loads of copies. I then know Ive done what I set out to do, and Ive also lived up to the customers expectations.
Best feeling i ever had was hearing a customer say the film was so good i want a copy for everyone at the wedding. 112 copies (only charged £11 for two disc set). And to prove a point Ive booked 11 weddings through that one alone (bridesmaids/sisters/brothers/guests and their family members).
Thanks to everyone who NEARLY got involved in a heated discussion.[/b]

[dougwx]

Ulead DVD Workshop 2 only adds Macrovision (level 1,2, or 3) and regional coding, it does not do CSS encryption. Macrovision would stop 90% of home users from copying content to VHS or to a set top DVD recorder. Any computer would still copy the disc fine using virtually any DVD-Copy software.

[Supreme2k]

Let me see if I got this straight:

1. You have wedding videos that you filmed, or that a customer gave to you from their wedding
2. You produce a video (edit, effects, etc.)
3. You put it on DVD
4. The customer makes digital-to-digital (exact) copies to share with their friends.

Is that it?

If so, what's the problem? If they make copies, they're not altering the production, so people get to see your work untouched. I'm sure most people won't assume that the cousin twice-removed has the original.

Which brings up another point: What scale of "piracy" do you figure is going on? like what was said above, if you get a Kodak disc of your own pics, where's the harm in duplicating it?

I know this may sound a little harsh, but it sounds like you have a control issue on par with the RIAA

Atleast your work stays intact. I've designed many web sites that have been ripped off. Lukily they couldn't get the "guts" that were witten in PHP, ASP, Perl, etc., but it still was my work that was changed.

[lordsmurf]

People are so greedy.

Put warnings on the box, at the start of the video, embed customer name/info in the ending credits, put up your company name in the disc firstplay.

... but in the end ... you still can't do anything about it.

They paid once. It's theirs. They can copy all they want. Do you plan to still be around in 30-40 years if they want more? No, of course not.

[vitualis]

Who owns the copyright? The wedding couple or the wedding video producer?

It would depend on the contract.

If not otherwise specified, it would be the wedding video producer.

Best regards.

[gmatov]

Smurf,

30, 40 years, whole subject is moot point.

Everybody is hoping 5 years down the road we can read them. Longevity, compatibility, TV compatibility (HDTV), DVD player obsolescence.

Like the other thread where one guy asks if we all have the time to sit in front of the 'puter every 3 years transcoding to the latest greatest new format. 5 disks, sure. 500? Whoa, Nellie.

Cheers,

George

[indolikaa]

I do home video conversions for friends and family. Once they receive that fine Taiyo Yuden DVD-R from my authoring station, I don't give a shit what they do with it. Copy it, burn it, upload it, download it, I could care less.

Of course, when you charge the rates I charge...

[monstermash]

Please read my previous posts before adding your two cents.
I dont mind people copying my work, but if they do it badly and it is still thought to be mine then thats a problem for me. I have spent years building up a reputation which is well respected. I dont want someone ruining it in others eyes to save a few quid.
Lets say your local corner shop starts selling brand X cola with a coke label on it, I know I would know the difference and would be pissed off with coca cola. I wouldnt give a shit if it tasted like coke but you can be sure it wont.
Like I stated in a previous post this happened to me with VHS 6 years ago, and I wasnt very pleased.
If someone made a poor copy on bulkpaq discs that skipped jumped or otherwise didnt play as well as the original quality disc which not only plays well but looks good and comes with quality packaging and another person took it to be my product then Im being shat upon from a great height. My product loses stature and my company suffers as a result.
Its has nothing to do with copyright or profit, only to protect my reputation as a producer of a quality product.
As I stated if someone told me their intention was to copy my work I would even offer advice.

[triphop]

Monster - please ignore Smurf on copyright issues - he has ethical tunnel vision . Some here reject the concept of copyright entirely and think that anyone who wishes to maintain control over their product is greedy or a thief. My advice: Ignore them - they will understand when they get a job.

There is no technical way to copy protect your DVDRs. The best that you can do is to place a notice on the product that clearly states that copying without permission is not permitted. To be fair, you should consider applying a time limit to this, say, 5 years. This will mean that after this time you can destroy or recycle the originals. This, of course, is what I am considering. I would welcome your opinion on the matter.

I too am in the wedding videography business and have largely the same concerns as you. Luckily for us the incentive for large scale commercial unauthorized duplication is unlikely but that does not mean that I automatically surrender my rights to my creative work.

regards,
Trip.

[jaxxboss]

icebergx was the person who asked the question about protecting a dvd. Mosnter on the other hand has turned this thread into his own personal advertisement about how great his videos are and the possibility of his image being ruined by someone making a copy. PUH-LEASE!!
You want to talk about contracts, then fine. IF the person shooting the video states in the contract that he has full ownership of said video and the person that hires him actually is fool enough to sign it, then ok. I dont think that is going to happen.

I guess the guy I hire to mow my lawn will get angry if I choose to add a flower bed along the side of the lawn or if I wanted to cut the lawn myself a week later, just to lower it some for my putting practice.

Maybe the person I pay to fix my car (or the one I buy it from)will get angry if I dont use high octane and change the oil every 7 months vice 6 months.

How about that delivery boy that gets me my newspaper, do I have to read it a certain way or can I not read it on the crapper?

hhmm, that pizza sure does look good, but Im going to remove the mushrooms before I bring it over to my friends house and watch the big game.... hope Domino's dont sue me over that.

As long as these people arent defaming monster and his great video bussiness, then he dont have a leg to stand on. He could always go to court I guess and try to sue em.

[triphop]

Jaxxboss:

What a load of nonsense. I cannot believe that someone that can operate a computer could have such a ridiculous position.

The law is clear and if you dont like it, vote to change it. Good luck finding a representative. I personally dont have the time or patience to address your straw man arguments. Suffice it to say, that if you ever get married and then choose to hire a wedding videographer, make sure that you stipulate in the contract that you own the copyright to that video. Just dont come cryin' when you find out that they charge you a premium or just refuse to do business with you.

As they say in the newsgroups: *PLONK*

[FOO]

Why the hell would anyone want a copy of a wedding video unless
they were direct participants?
You people are full of shit to want to protect your copies of a
weding video of total strangers. You should be paid for doing
the job once - filming and editing. That's it. If you want
money for copies and your "art" the actors need to get a cut too -
and they were the original clients !

This is not like making a movie. You were hired to record an event
staged by someone else.


.

[JMO]

Monster, I think I'd go with the honesty screen at the start of the disc - part of a 15-30 second promo for your company. At the end, you put up something like "if the disc or tape you're watching doesn't carry our logo, then you're watching an illegal copy that doesn't come up to our rigorous quality control standards. Please don't encourage people to steal our work."

You may be able to get copy protection, but it'll be for a price that'll wreck your profit margin

Copyright's an emotive subject around here. I've no sympathy for enormous corporations claiming intellectual property rights that should belong to individual artists, but I've every sympathy for the poor working slob whose copyright is the only thing bringing home the bacon.

[triphop]

FOO:

Another straw argument. If you dont agree with the terms of the contract then do not sign it. Photographers, artists, authors and, yes, wedding videographers automatically retain copyright. This is a fact - period. If you wish to purchase copyright, you can put this in the contract.

regards,
Trip.

[FOO]

It's bullshit to retain copyright to a wedding you were hired to film.
I don't care what the law actually is - it's wrong.
If you would price for ONE copy you would not have any problems.
There are really only two people interested in the wedding.

[jaxxboss]

triphop, are you like 12? newsgoups? PLONK? Please sir. Like I said, if the contract states the filmer has complete cpoyright ownership, I bet ya you dont get much work. Plus, I bet ya people will still make copies and I highly doubt that you would do anything about it even IF u did find out about it. Not to mention all the participants in the wedding, you gonna have them all sign a contract as well? Not gonna happen buddy. Take ur newsgroups and plonks and cram it ya dork. You have no credability now.
PLONK, LMFAO. Thats funny. You going to call me a poopy head next?

[Supreme2k]

If you want
money for copies and your "art" the actors need to get a cut too -
and they were the original clients !

EXACTLY! Unless all of the "actors" signed into the agreement, the so-called copyright doesn't stand. I have both gotten married (and had a video production) and have helped a buddy get a video producer for his wedding. The standard contract is for the work performed, not for any copyright agrement (implied or otherwise).

Note: this is not directed at monstermash.

[vitualis]

That the copyright belongs to the artist (i.e., the video producer) is implicit and obvious. They made it, and they have copyright to it.

As I stated before, it if is not otherwise stated in the contract, then they retain copyright to the material.

As for the "participants" in the video, they have a right to object to their image being distributed if it isn't otherwise stated in the contract (i.e., if the video producer wanted for some bizarre reason to sell the wedding video on the internet). The "participants" in the video do not really have a right to object to the video producer selling the disc to THEM -- after all, even if it isn't specifically in the contract, this is implicit. Just like there is an implicit contract between myself and the bus company when I pay my fare and get onto a bus. This is really a case of caveat emptor. Don't sign up with a video producer if you don't like their terms or you don't like their pricing structure.

I personally think that it is a pretty poor practice for wedding video producers to charge extra for the "copyright rights" and really comes down to nothing more than a way to extort more cash from the couple being married. However, they do have the "right" to do this and unfortunately, a lot of them do. Isn't the capitalist system great?

Regards.

[lordsmurf]

Monster - please ignore Smurf on copyright issues - he has ethical tunnel vision .......... Some here reject the concept of copyright entirely and think that anyone who wishes to maintain control over their product is greedy or a thief.......... My advice: Ignore them - they will understand when they get a job........I too am in the wedding videography business and have largely the same concerns as you.

I think you're the one wearing the ethical "beer goggles", buddy. You are the one hiding behind "copyright" to EXTORT more money ... and that my friend, is GREED. GRRRREEEEEEEEEEEEEEEED..............

If you want more money, charge it upfront, don't be a weasel about it later on.

And what a condescending #$%^*() you are! I actually have a whole lot more choices words for you ... but I don't want fluffy yellow pillows from mods.

You want ethical? Give these people what they want at a reasonable price, and don't try to harm their memories by your unsatisfied amount of greed.

Call me GROUCHY SMURF, people! That hit a nerve.

[FOO]

but I don't want fluffy yellow pillows from mods.

What's wrong with the pillows. I like mine. I think you should get one too.
It has a nice color match with my drunk gerbil.

[monstermash]

Lordsmurf as someone who contributes a great deal to this site I would have thought you would have the sense to read what people are trying to say before jumping in with your size 10,s. I have already stated that I dont mind if people copy my work but if its done poorly and passed off as mine then any possible customers for the future could be lost


If someone asked me the same thing I would at the very least offer them advice to do it correctly with the right kind of materials. Again for no profit but to protect my reputation.

And as for jaxxboss, you entered this post with your views and were at least quite reasonable, but come on, mechanics/lawnmowermen/paperboy and pizza parlours, get a grip. Next you will be telling us piccaso, van gough and constable didnt have any right to sell their work as they were not their own subject.

I do wonder what you do for a living, could you be a digruntled mechanic or even an unloved pizza maker or maybe you just had a hard paper round when you were a kid(possibly still a kid).

[gmatov]

Monster,

Actually, a lot of the painters didn't have a right to their works, as they were supported by their Patrons. But that's neither here nor there.

If your view is that a good copy is acceptable, but not one that would harm your reputation, what kind of copy operation could they use that would give a bad copy?

You are not encrypting the material, so a direct disk copy should be equivalent in quality If they copy to a VCR with dirty heads or something like that, the quality might be worse, I should say will be, but, if you had a large splash screen that says DVD in the opening shots, how could anyone miss that it's a copy?

Just a thought. This thread is a little different from some others. In those, it was "I worked my ass off to make this disk. Noone has any right to copy it. They have to pay me for any copies."

At least you say if they do it to your quality expectations, go ahead. I'll give you a point for that.

Cheers,

George

[lordsmurf]

Monster, nothing I've said was really directed at you. I was mostly appalled at what came out of the mouths of others.

To address your concerns Monster, outside of lawsuits, there's nothing you can do about it. Either forget about it, or provide a free document with how to properly copy DVD or VHS to maintain quality. Print one from this site or mine if you want to.

If you need more money, charge it upfront.

Integrity and word-of-mouth customer satisfaction is worth more than a few bucks for a few more copies. I think by giving them good work, charging a fair price, and giving info on how to make their own copies ... you'll do just fine.

And you can always offer copy services on the side for like $5 per additional tape/DVD, which is not unreasonable at all. Better yet, include 10 copies in the original price. Whether DVD or VHS, that's only $10-20 in supplies.

I don't see why it needs to be so complex of an issue.

Hope those ideas can help you.

I also give you some credit, same reason as George.

[andyp1]

I thought you might find this thread interesting .
This guy sure knows how to profit from his wedding videos.
https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=209820