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  1. Yes, I Know Roundabout's Avatar
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    I expect if this happens in the U.K. it will come to the same point sooner or later in the U.S. too. Not good news for us file sharers...

    From TechNewsWorld:

    P2P Could End Flat-Rate Broadband

    The growing popularity of P2P sites is driving ISP costs to unacceptable levels. Since much P2P traffic does not originate from ISP networks it costs them more to deliver it, leading to their consideration of unpopular measures such as port throttling P2P sites, data download limits or pay-as-you-go pricing.

    Consumer flat-rate broadband packages in the UK could be replaced by tiered broadband services as soon as next year.
    Speaking at the Internet Service Providers (ISPs) forum in London this week, peer-to-peer (P2P) management equipment vendor Sandvine claimed that UK ISPs are reviewing how they sell and package their services.

    Broadband services in the UK are currently priced at how much bandwidth a customer wants to buy, typically anywhere from 150Kbps to 2Mbps, usually with no cap on how much data they can download.

    The growing popularity of P2P sites is driving ISP costs to unacceptable levels.
    Since much P2P traffic does not originate from ISP networks it costs them more to deliver it, leading to their consideration of unpopular measures such as port throttling P2P sites, data download limits or pay-as-you-go pricing.

    But ISPs are still deeply reluctant to change to alternative pricing models because of the unpopularity of such schemes with consumers.

    Not Public Yet:

    "None is going public with this yet because there is a real risk they could lose customers, but 10 are thinking about introducing application intelligent services rather than using the speed-equals-price business model," said Chris Colman, Sandvine's EMEA managing director.
    Currently, only around five per cent of broadband subscribers are deemed heavy users, but they account for 55 per cent of broadband traffic.

    But ISPs expect the number of heavy users to grow as more people choose broadband for P2P applications.

    Clearly an Issue:

    A spokesman for AOL (NYSE: AOL) said: "P2P is clearly an issue for ISPs. Judging what goes beyond what is reasonable usage and what impacts on other users is difficult, but as more people go online with broadband it is entirely possible that different packages will be introduced.
    "It is not on the agenda for AOL at the moment because people are happy with the flat-rate model and are still getting to grips with broadband. But you could see ISPs bringing in different products next year."
    Ethernet (n): something used to catch the etherbunny
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  2. Member
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    the main reason i got broadband was for p2p, if my isp discide to filter ports or throttle them, i think i would just switch to another isp, or if there was a wayaround it, like switch to a different port. but its a bit siily, i paid for 512k broadband, so thats what i should get, you dont hear of dial up being restricted like this. maybe on if the main factors in this idea is that in the uk, british telecom own all the network lines, and as such, if they told bt to stop monoplizing the way they do, maybe we wouldnt have all this problem and isp's could bring their cosst down??
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  3. My ISP (Bell Canada) did that as well, ie started chaging more after your first monthly gig, but they lifted it a year later, as not all broadband ISP's followed suite. I mostly download clips and software, so I wasn't really affected.
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  4. Member
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    Yeah let's blame BT
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  5. I was on the BT web site today and they have started this practice. They have a package for 19.99 per month which gives you a 512k broadband connection but you are limited to 1G woth of down/uploads per month. If you want the unlimited package it will cost 27.00 per month.

    I think the writing is on the wall folks!
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  6. Member marvel2020's Avatar
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    And if these co called ISP's that offer Broadband start capping on how much you can download/upload, how many do you think would last a year.

    Not many i would think, the whole selling point of broadband is the unlimited download/upload connection.

    I know i for one would tell my ISP to stick the Broadband up there ass if they started to Cap.

    And beside's not everyone use's these P2P program's, I know i don't. It's bad enough already that they capped the download speed to 1mb or 2mb if your on with Blueyonder and your upload speed to 128/256kbps.

    Is it any wonder some people will go to the extreme measures of uncapping there modem's so that they get a faster download speed, compare to the rest of the world Broadband in the UK SUCKS BIGTIME, actually it's a joke, but what other choice's have you, go back to dialup, Don't think so, use the Satalite option, Too Expensive, Wireless Broadband - only useful if you have a laptop.

    So we just have to stick with what we have now and hope that it improve's.

    Then again this could all be just a scare technique, who knows guess we'll just have to wait and see.
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  7. Originally Posted by dumpy
    I was on the BT web site today and they have started this practice. They have a package for 19.99 per month which gives you a 512k broadband connection but you are limited to 1G woth of down/uploads per month. If you want the unlimited package it will cost 27.00 per month.

    I think the writing is on the wall folks!
    1Gb of downloads a month is a joke. I have the unlimited service currently from BT and have noticed recently after using p2p (emule, bt, shareaza) my connection drops out. The connections property box still shows as being connected and the timer keeps going but all activity stops, I can't even search the web ! Is this, perhaps, port throttling by my ISP ?


    Buddha says that, while he may show you the way, only you can truly save yourself, proving once and for all that he's a lazy, fat bastard.
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  8. Member
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    personally i got broadband for the speed not for how much more I could screw out of the music companies because i could download more, the option stated above would suite me as it would give me faster access for surfing E mail and could still down load the occasional update to dvd shrink even then 1GB is still a hell of a lot of mp3s
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  9. Member rhegedus's Avatar
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    You don't need to be a genius to work out that most people with broadband connection use them for p2p connections, at least some of the time. So quite why ISPs are finding it difficult to meet the requirements of their contracts is beyond me. Broadband should be broadband all the time, not only up to a point.

    The BT 20 package came well after the standard 27 package and is designed for people who like their internet connections quick but don't do p2p - it's not like they bumped up the price from 20 to 27. Never had any problems with them either.

    I've just upgraded form BT's standard 1/2 meg package to the 1 meg package. Re-installed XP last week and downloaded 80meg of updates in 12 minutes

    It is worthwhile shopping around though (I don't because I can't be bothered to be without broadband for 3 weeks while swapping ISPs) - Bulldog do some great offers.
    Regards,

    Rob
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  10. 1GB is still a hell of a lot of mp3s
    Yes but it isn't if you download software. A Linux distribution can take 3 or 4 CD's and that's going to be 2.1 to 2.8 Gb.

    I have NTL and that's capped at 1Gb per day, a dratted nuisance but I have a 2Gb DSL line at work so I do most of my downloads with that.

    One thought, you keep hearing about television, radio and telephone via the internet but doesn't capping make a nonsense of all that? One film of 3 hours will exceed 1Gb nbever mind a whole evenings viewing!!!!!!!!!!!! 8)
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
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  11. Member The village idiot's Avatar
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    The freeBSD full package is over 1GB too. If you are having significant problems with your computer, you might go over 1GB just getting updates for all the software and the OS. In the last few days I had around 500MB worth of updates I had to grab for software that just arrived on Monday. Casual surfing and the occasional video short from someplace like Ifilms would kill the rest of the in a matter of days. All in all, caps suck! Rate limits on certain protocols sucks too! Damn P2P weenies killing everything for all the rest of us. Kazaa the AOL of file sharing
    Hope is the trap the world sets for you every night when you go to sleep and the only reason you have to get up in the morning is the hope that this day, things will get better... But they never do, do they?
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  12. Originally Posted by Duchess
    I have NTL and that's capped at 1Gb per day,
    Only in theory. I go over that regularly, but not all the time if you see what I mean, and there is no actaul cap, just a mention in the terms and conditions.

    Anyway, I am sure more capped services will appear in the future but I also believe that flat-fee uncapped services are here to stay also. The capped services are just an attempt at persuading more people to sign up to broadband by pushing prices down. Any ISP that caps all consumer level services will soon find themselves with a lot less customers!


    If you have a capped service with a download limit, what happens when you get spammed, Dos'ed and port scanned, does it all count agaisnt your allowance?
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    What's the Axiom? 1% of the people use 10% of the bandwidth, and 10% of the people use 30% of the bandwidtth, and 30% of the people use 80% of the bandwidth? It's the top 10% of the people that usually cause the problem.

    My ISP recently upped our D/L speed from 2 Mbps to 3 Mbps. However, given that cable now offers Digital CATV, Phone service, and on demand, guess which bandwidth gets squeezed? I can only hit 3 Mbps at 4 am, most other times it's around 2.25 Mbps. At peak times it's often 1.0 Mbps. Uplaods are all capped at 384k. I pay $50/month and am quite happy.

    A note on P2P's. Heavy P2P use often floods out my firewall with connection attampts. Miss-share the wrong folder and you can get 150 connection attempts per second, and it will go on for days even if you stop sahring and shut down. I usually change IP addresses after a P2P session. That will crash a 98 machine in a heartbeat!!!
    To Be, Or, Not To Be, That, Is The Gazorgan Plan
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  14. If you have a capped service with a download limit, what happens when you get spammed, Dos'ed and port scanned, does it all count agaisnt your allowance?
    I don't know. NTL just monitors and they say that if you exceed the limit you will get a warning and if you still continue they threaten that they will cut off your service. However, I've exceeded the limit quite a few times and so far I've heard nothing from them. But if they do get shirty I'll just cancel all my services with them (phone and cable TV) and go elsewhere.
    Artificial intelligence is no match for natural stupidity.
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  15. Member
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    Originally Posted by Evor
    Yeah let's blame BT
    yes...lets....seeing as they own most the phone line technology which all isp's have to rent off them. its a very unfair situation that bt can hold all the cards and play them close to their chest, bt has an unfair monopoly.
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  16. The whole deal with broadband is supposed to be like this: anytime, as long as you want, as much data as you want!

    Fibre to the people!! (I'll bet the swedish people would have access to 100mbit lines soon!)

    Unfortunatly Norway used a lot of cash on isdn development back in the days! (I want broadband thruu fibre optical lines!!)
    10110101100111012011 <- The bug Bill doesn't talk about.
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  17. Member lgh529's Avatar
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    You guys need an ISP like mine. I have a 1.5Mbit/980Kbit DSL line with a monthly bandwidth limit of 12GB (yes, thats correct twelve). And not only that, they don't meter bandwidth between 12am and 6am, so if you wanted to download the whole FreeBSD set, just wait till after midnight and go for it.

    By the way, I never run any P2P programs on my system, but I do run a mail server and web server, and my ISP doesn't care. As long as my server isn't an open relay, and I'm not hosting porn, they could care less what goes through pipe.

    Cost you ask? $17/month for ISP (paid 6 months at a time) and $28/month for the 1.5Mbit line.

    So if you live in Utah (USA), I would switch to xmission.com for internet service. They totally rule!
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  18. yes...lets....seeing as they own most the phone line technology which all isp's have to rent off them. its a very unfair situation that bt can hold all the cards and play them close to their chest, bt has an unfair monopoly.

    I`ve been trying to migrate my broadband account from BT to another ISP for 2 months and it has been impossible. They say it`s a "technical" problem. Why, I don`t know coz my connection works perfectly well, but if they start capping DL`s then I`d cancel and sign up with someone else even if it meant being offline for a couple of weeks
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  19. broadband in the uk is a joke i have a 600k ntl line which costs 30 a month at home
    thankfully they dont seem too bothered about me exceeding the data cap of 1GB per day
    when im at home my downstream is saturated pretty much constantly leading to 3-4 gig a day transfer thanks to my friend in sweden and his ftp

    at college i have a 2mb blueyonder line which is phenomenally fast but sets us back 55 quid a month (between 5 of us)it is lightning fast but shame about the 256k upstream is hard to send large files

    In britain we seem to haveto pay a phenomenal amount for poor lines as opposed to sweden who have 10mbit or even 100mbit for similar prices

    if thhe isps in britain start charging by the GB a lot of people will stop using broadband
    THE ONLY REASON 90% OF THE PEOPLE WHO HAVE FAST INTERNET AT HOME IS P2P

    the ISPs are still making a lot of money
    i doubt they will start charging by the GB

    when ntl introduced the supposed 1GB per day cap they quietly backed down after offending their users and also breaking some rule about false advertisement
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  20. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    I don't support the idea of P2P is the only reason people have broadband. That's such an immature answer, in my opinion.

    It's because it is faster for everything across the board.

    I'd support throttle-down on P2P ports, as long as other things are not bothered. I highly doubt usage of broadband would change much if this was done.

    Or at very least, charge a much higher price for unfettered use of said ports. Bandwidth is a problem these days. The tech outgrew the wires.

    I know several people that download as a hobby, and never even use what they take/steal. How pointless.
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  21. Member rhegedus's Avatar
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    I don't support the idea of P2P is the only reason people have broadband. That's such an immature answer, in my opinion.
    Immature? How?

    It's because it is faster for everything across the board.
    Mainly for file transfer. Most web sites are designed to be available to 56k dial-up users so a web page completeing a couple of seconds quicker isn't the main attraction of broadband.

    I'm with you on the rest
    Regards,

    Rob
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  22. Banned
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    Smurf,

    The tech didn't outgrow the wires. The big crash of Global Crossing and the like was that everybody and his uncle was laying fibre optics all around the country and they were never able to "light up" those fibre optic cables is what killed them.

    Railroads had their own rights of way and dug a ditch along the tracks and said, hey, why don't we lay 10 cables instead of just 1, that way we don't have to dig again next month, because all the gurus say there is an unlimited demand for capacity.

    Well, the demand never grew, and WorldCom, Global Crossing, all the others just faded away into bankruptcy.

    The fibre is still there, but the traffic to "light it up" is not. There is 10 times as much "dark" fibre out there than there is of lit fibre.

    Basically, the pipple above are getting a "Royal" shafting. Hey, it's England, why wouldn't it be Royal?

    Japan is supposed to have something like 25 megabits per second, over DSL, read telephone, lines, but we play around with 768 kbps and say, "Wait'l next year, ywe'll offer a whole mbps, for just a few bucks more a month."

    My daughter can't get cable, but her little town is now blessed with ADSL a, mebbe, 768, a big assed jump from the 33.6 her modem has been giving her. At 29.95 a month, cheap enough that I am considering going to DSL to get away from the shit I get on Comcast's lousy TV programming, though I just might have to halve my DL rate. If I don't have Comcast TV, my rate is 57.95, rather than 42.95, per month.

    Cheers,

    George
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  23. Video Restorer lordsmurf's Avatar
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    @ rhegedus, the speed increases on Web pages are greater than I think you're giving credit for ... especially with all the sites incorporating active dll/cgi scripts, flash, forums, and other interactive content.

    This site itself runs slow as molasses on dial-up, but is great on broadband. I'd never come here on 56k. Never.

    Ebay is another example of a site that is PAINFUL to run on dialup, but not even a mild problem on broadband.

    I'm sure P2P is reason for the kids and pirates, but I can honestly say I don't know a single person older than 22 that has broadband to download. It's for conveniences like faster page loads, ability to update software quicker (anti-virus, Windows, etc), and do work online, whether it be to sell as a career on eBay, design/program, or merely do research.

    Many sites are not designed for 56k anymore, they are designed simply for features balanced with bandwidth. Those with slow connections need to just speed up or deal with their own inadequacies. That is the growing opinion.

    Broadband is about increased productivity, not P2P. However, that being said, some people consider P2P their productivity benchmark, though I strongly disagree aboiut that being any kind of majority of broadband users.

    I'd rather take a kick to the balls every morning than be forced to used dialup for my online work, none of which include downloads with any kind of frequency.
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  24. Member rhegedus's Avatar
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    I'm sure P2P is reason for the kids and pirates, but I can honestly say I don't know a single person older than 22 that has broadband to download. It's for conveniences like faster page loads, ability to update software quicker (anti-virus, Windows, etc), and do work online, whether it be to sell as a career on eBay, design/program, or merely do research.
    I'm pretty sure that the RIAA and MPAA aren't getting their knockers in a twist over a bunch of teenagers downloading the latest Britney song or movie. It's much, much more widespread than what you think - even my mother, who's in her fifties, has managed to amass over a thousand (not much in the scheme of things...) mp3s since she had broadband put in.

    Many sites are not designed for 56k anymore, they are designed simply for features balanced with bandwidth. Those with slow connections need to just speed up or deal with their own inadequacies. That is the growing opinion.
    But once you visit them a couple of times, the files get cached and it becomes less of a problem.

    Broadband is about increased productivity, not P2P. However, that being said, some people consider P2P their productivity benchmark, though I strongly disagree aboiut that being any kind of majority of broadband users.
    I don't doubt that that is what businessed get broadband for, but were talking about home users here.

    I'd rather take a kick to the balls every morning than be forced to used dialup for my online work, none of which include downloads with any kind of frequency.
    That's because you build your own web site - something that most people don't do (and something that I must get around to doing ).
    Regards,

    Rob
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  25. QUOTE
    "I don't support the idea of P2P is the only reason people have broadband. That's such an immature answer, in my opinion."

    i said 90% of broadband users
    the other 10% are people who have more money than sense or who have their own websites and need to upload a lot of files that they make themself

    with how few websites around that are actually worth visiting on a frequent basis most people would be finewith dialup if there was no more transferring of files

    I doubt they will start charging by the GB
    i cant see it happening
    if it does i will consider the charges if its only 1 for every 10gigs you go over the gig a day that ntl deemed fair use its not too bad
    if it was 1 for each gig that you went over then a lot of people would reassess

    GET IN NOW AND DOWNLOAD ALL YOU CAN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!!!
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  26. Member Roderz's Avatar
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    I noticed blueyonders prices are changing in April - no info on why or what!
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  27. Originally Posted by hhhhbk
    QUOTE
    "I don't support the idea of P2P is the only reason people have broadband. That's such an immature answer, in my opinion."

    i said 90% of broadband users
    the other 10% are people who have more money than sense or who have their own websites and need to upload a lot of files that they make themself
    I don't use P2P
    I don't have my own website
    I don't have more money than sense (tho some might argue with that ).

    I am sure a lot of broadband users are also P2P users and in many cases P2P is the main attraction but there are also plenty of other uses for high-bandwidth always on connections.

    Ever heard of VPN, teleworking, online gaming etc.

    As I said before, capped broadband is suitable for some and will probably stay around towards the cheaper end of the market but I don't see flat fee uncapped broadband going away completley any time soon.
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  28. Member
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    Originally Posted by lordsmurf
    I don't support the idea of P2P is the only reason people have broadband. That's such an immature answer, in my opinion.

    It's because it is faster for everything across the board.

    I'd support throttle-down on P2P ports, as long as other things are not bothered. I highly doubt usage of broadband would change much if this was done.

    Or at very least, charge a much higher price for unfettered use of said ports. Bandwidth is a problem these days. The tech outgrew the wires.

    I know several people that download as a hobby, and never even use what they take/steal. How pointless.
    speaking for myself only, p2p was not the only reason i took up broadband, but it was a major factor. i choose my isp because,
    1. good service.
    2. good price.
    3. no restrictions on p2p.
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  29. If you don't do much downloading and just want the speed of broadband access for the web, check out www.metronet.co.uk as they are the first UK ISP to offer pay-as-you-go ADSL, with a 512k conection starting at 11.75 a month. And if you do go bananas the top monthly rate is only 23 + VAT (about the same as BT anyway).
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  30. Lost Will Hay's Avatar
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    I have broadband, had it for nearly 18 months now and it's just about to go; I'm going back to 56k
    An extra child and no income from the wife makes it a luxury I just can't stretch to.
    As far as saying people only upgrade to broadband for P2Pis rather niave.
    I know about a dozen people who have it and only two of them know what it means, and I'm included in that.
    I was paying 19.99 a month with V21 and can't fault it, it's been superb.

    Originally Posted by hhhhbk
    GET IN NOW AND DOWNLOAD ALL YOU CAN WHILE YOU STILL CAN!!!!
    Yeah sonny, you go download all those movies that you own but can't be bothered to rip.
    Will
    tgpo, my real dad, told me to make a maximum of 5,806 posts on vcdhelp.com in one lifetime. So I have.
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