VideoHelp Forum


Try DVD Fab Video Downloader and rip Netflix video! Or Try DVD Fab and copy Blu-rays! or rip iTunes movies!
+ Reply to Thread
Page 1 of 3
1 2 3 LastLast
Results 1 to 30 of 68
Thread
  1. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    General notes
    This method is a 12 step alternative for doing NTSC to PAL conversion. Other methods do exist and some of them are maybe better (especially those based on avisynth). So, if you test it and you don't like the results, just search for them.
    Also, this method is not for DV (or any of cam) NTSC to PAL conversions. It works with home movies, but the results are inferior other methods.

    What this guide Covers

    This guide covers NTSC to PAL conversion, if the source is a DVB, an mpeg 1/2 or a TV / (S)VHS / LD avi capture from a tuner card. It works excellent with movies, cartoons and music videos, but seems to have issues when you convert true interlace TV material, like sport transmissions or news.

    This guide doesn't cover the capture process and doesn't cover how to set up your mpeg 1/2 encoder.


    Tools you need

    Virtualdub (or Virtualdub mpeg2) - Freeware
    Huffyuv - Video Codec, freeware
    Avifrate - Freeware
    Any "wav" compatible sound editor - (example: Goldwave - Freeware)
    TMPGenc - 30 days trial use - except if you live in the future


    The procedure

    Let say that you have a NTSC file with a frame size of 704 x 480 @29.97 fps. Could be anything else of course: What make a source "NTSC" is basically the frame rate - 29.97fps - and the frame size (480 (or 240) Vertical lines).

    Step 1: You load your original NTSC file to Virtualdub (or Virtualdub mpeg2 if it is a mpeg 2 or a DVB transmission).

    Step 2: You resize the frame size to 720, 704 or 352 x 576. This can be done with an internal filter of Virtualdub (Video > Filters).

    Step 3: You apply "Inverse Telecine".
    This can be done with various Virtualdub filters, or you can do it with the internal Virtualdub routines. The Virtualdub internal set up for this step, is hidden to: video > framerate . On this menu, you look at the field: "inverse telecine" and you choose the option "reconstruct from fields / adaptive" for best results.

    Step 4: You save your modified original file to a new avi. Unfortunately, you can't save it to mpeg if your source was mpeg.

    Clearifications:
    - Always choose a compression codec when you save your new modified Avi to HD. By default, Virtualdub saves to uncompressed, which is of huge size. A freeware suggested codec for this task is Huffyuv
    - On this step, DON'T choose any other filters beyond the "resize" one I mention in step 2.
    - When this action finish, on your Hard Disc a new 23.97 NTSC Avi file with a PAL framesize is saved.

    Step 5: Load the new 23.97fps (xxx x 576) Avi file to Virtualdub, and save the audio to a separate file (File > Save Wav). Exit Virtualdub

    Step 6: With a program called avifrate (search for it) you open your new 23.97fps (xxx x 576) Avi and patch it from 23.97fps to 25fps. With this simply patch, the video part of your avi is now PAL!

    Step 7: Load your new PAL avi to Virtualdub and roll to the end so to see the length it has. It's gonna be slightly less now that what was before. Write down this new length

    Step 8: Load the "wav" audio file you saved before (on step 5) at any wave editor and speed it up so to match the length to your video (as you calculated in step 8 ). Save it and exit your wave editor.

    Step 9: Load the new PAL avi to Virtualdub. Point to Virtualdub to use the wav audio file, the one you modified at the previous step. This can be done if you go to the "Audio" tab and select "Full processing mode" which activates the option "WAV Audio". You choose "WAV Audio" and from there you point you new wav audio file

    Step 10: You can now preview Video and Audio for delays. If there is a delay (of any kind), you can adjust it manually. This can be done if you go to Audio > Interleaving and on the "Audio Skew track by" option, set positive / negative values, the way it is described there.

    Step 11: You must now frameserve this project to any mpeg 2 encoder. You can do that from the "File" and the "Start Frame Server" option. Follow the instructions that pops up. Virtualdub gonna create now a dummy frameserving file with a "VDR" extension.

    - There is an alternative on this: You can save to a new AVI. That might be the correct step if you apply temporal filters to clean your source at this time. But for the none temporal based filters, the frame serving is suggested. Keep in mind that frame serving with added filters, slows the encoding process a lot!

    Step 12: You open your favourite mpeg 2 encoder and you load the "vdr" file for your video / audio source. In the case of TMPGenc Encoder, you load the "vdr" file to the "Video" tab and automatic TMPGEnc also loads the audio. You program your encoder as usual and you hit encode.

    You wait the process proccess to end. It takes time, as usual. When finishs, you successfully converted your NTSC source to PAL mpeg / DVD (depending what you choose)

    What happens if I follow this method to convert my DV / Sport - News TV captures from NTSC to PAL?

    In this case your source is a real interlace transmission, and some issues might appear. The most common one, is something like a jumping field (not frame!), once here and there. Nothing terrible, but some picky users, might find it annoying... Unfortunately, this is the price you have to pay for a conversion like this with this method.

    Side effects
    There is one: With this method, anything from your source are slightly speed up. But, you don't have the flickering or the motion problems, some others methods have to deal with


    Written by SatStorm
    Original version: 29/02/2004
    Quote Quote  
  2. Hi

    Looks like a great guide!! I still have one If I have an avi, lets say it xvid 576x256 with 23,976 fps. Am I able to start with from "Step 5" and get a good result?
    Yours

    LuckyShot
    Quote Quote  
  3. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    Well, someone finally discover my guide! For a moment, I thought it wasn't uploaded for a reason

    Sure you can, no problems! If your framerate is 23.97 the first place, you simply save audio to a seperate wave file, "Patch" the avi from 23.97 to 25fps, load it to virtualdub, see the new leght, adjust the audio to that lenght, and you encode.
    Quote Quote  
  4. Sounds great!!

    And Thanks for the guide, I been looking a LOONG time for a guide like this!! BUT I have more? When I save the wave file in VdubMod, is it in "full prossing mode" or " Direct streams copy"?

    Keep up the great work!
    Yours

    LuckyShot
    Quote Quote  
  5. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    When you export, works both ways.
    When you import, needs to set to full proccess.

    After all, you want a "direct stream copy" as a source, right? 8)
    Quote Quote  
  6. SatStorm!

    An excellent reference. I have an NTSC project that needs to be converted to PAL within the next few days. Your timing is excellent.

    .indolikaa.
    Quote Quote  
  7. I doubt that I can but I think ill ask anyway.

    Would I be able to use this guide to convert NTSC to PAL from a VHS video tape captured with a Pinnacle BlueBox with Pinnacle Studio 8 software?

    I know its a long shot but its cheaper than getting a company to convert all of my NTSC vids to PAL at a price.

    Yours,
    Beev
    Yours,
    Beev
    Quote Quote  
  8. Hi again and thanks for the help!

    Ive had my first try with this guide and ,,,,, total succes!!! Save my wave file in "full prossing mode" and your guide worked great!!!
    Thanks again!!
    Yours

    LuckyShot
    Quote Quote  
  9. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    You can convert any NTSC file that Virtualdub / Virtualdub mpeg 2 can load
    Quote Quote  
  10. Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2002
    Location
    United States
    Search Comp PM
    I'd like to point out it's a pretty foolproof guide. Not the fastest, but you avoid the 'jumps' that are common when it's not done right.

    I'd also like to point out with a minimum of intelligence, you can use it to go from PAL to NTSC. All the same steps apply, your just going the other way.
    To Be, Or, Not To Be, That, Is The Gazorgan Plan
    Quote Quote  
  11. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    Yes indeed, it does work the opposite way also, but from my knowledge, when the audio has a lower speed than the source, it is far more irritating the opposite.

    When someone wish to convert PAL to NTSC, the first step is to run Telecine, so to convert 25 to 24 fps (2:2 pull down removal) and then patch to 23.97fps with avifrate... The next step is to use 3:2 pull down so to boost 23.97 to 29.97.
    Quote Quote  
  12. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    Well ...

    I must say I have nothing against SatStorm as I have enjoyed many of his posts but having said that ...

    What happens when you have an NTSC source that is interlaced ... not all NTSC vidoes be it from a capture or a DVD or whatever can have an IVTC or INVERSE TELECINE done to them.

    Most methods of converting such sources are rather involved.

    In short I think SatStorm's guide here is really only best when the NTSC source CAN be IVTC'ed otherwise ... it shouldn't be done (this way).

    In other words if the source really is interlaced and doesn't have that "magical" 3-2 pattern then you can't really convert it from 29.970fps to 25.000fps using VirtualDub and an IVTC filter.

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  13. Hello SatStorm,

    Thank you for this great guide.

    But could you please explain step 8 some more (the speeding of the audio to match the "shortened" video)? I'm not really sure how tackle this step.

    Oh, and by the way, as far as I know Goldwave in no longer freeware(Audacity is).

    Again, thanks for taking the time to enlighten the rest of us.

    Regards,
    Hitrec
    Quote Quote  
  14. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    @FulciLives: I already stated from the begin that this guide is not for true interlace NTSC sources.
    There is no easy/ free way to do this kind of convertion. The alternative I present here, does the job with true interlace source, but not perfect. When you apply it to true interlace source, the results reminds something like the realtime NTSC to PAL convertion, some DVD Standalone players can do. It is not perfect, but what else you can do? Only to keep it NTSC, which sometimes, simply ain't possible!

    @hitrec: I didn't know that Goldwave turned commercial and I never used Audacity. Thank you for the update, I'll change it when I'll update the article.
    I use for this step an ancient version of Soundforge, I have 4 - 5 years now, version 4.5 (which offers me more than my needs). There is an option in soundforge, called "Time expand / compress". From there, you can rise the tempo, so the output match with the new video lenght. All the wave editors have that option one way or other. It is easy to figure it out.
    Quote Quote  
  15. Hello SatStorm,

    Thanks for the extra info, I've done a quick check and Audacity (v1.2) has an effect that allows you to change the tempo, that's easy indeed, but I never used it.

    Now I'll try to convert a Springsteen clip.

    Thanks very much and take care,
    Hitrec
    Quote Quote  
  16. Member Zetti's Avatar
    Join Date
    Dec 2003
    Location
    Canada
    Search Comp PM
    Has anyone tried the comercial sw "all video converter" ?

    Demo is available through this site;

    It has a built-in PAL to NTSC and vice versa conversion tool, actually I tried it, but the demo hasn't worked in my computer, it says that will put a watermark on video, but converted just 3 seconds

    I've runned Xeesdeni's method through AVSynth some times, but I found two issues :

    1) Not smooth motion on fast scenes;

    2) Final NTSC movie isn't the same lenght as the original PAL;

    Zetti
    Quote Quote  
  17. An another warning and note:
    If the source is captured film, and you have done cut edits, (commercials etc) this can also bunk up the IVTC process if the 3:2 pattern gets cut in the middle here and there. But hey, whatcha gonna do.

    May i also sugest a rename of this guide to :NTSCFilm to Pal conversion"
    because it really is not truly NTSC, it's NTSC film. Save a bit of confusion. (For example, i came to this thread to see what ingenious method you had come up with to convert true ntsc to pal (, not pulldown, REAL ntsc).

    Nice guide though.

    One more note: in cirtualdub you can click framerate>23.976 , as an alternative to using avifrate.
    Quote Quote  
  18. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    No, it is not about film capture...
    You capture at 29.97, and you end up at 25fps. What this guide do, is to give a way (and never said that it is the best) to do this type of convertion with great success and wonderfull results....
    AND with freeware programs.

    The way I determine everything in the article, it is impossible to confuse anything.
    If now you found confusing the title of the article, well... It is not. It still offers a way to convert NTSC 29.97 captures to 25fps PAL. If you know a better way, suggest it please!


    Virtualdub 23.97 > 25 method, add field and frames to succeed the convertion. The way I suggest, using avifrate, doesn't add anything on the source. Just speed it up enough so to match PAL. So, no jiltering, flickering, jumping fields, etc...

    You're suggestion about not cutting your source before you Inverce telecine it, it is very correct. When I update the guide, I shall add it on the clearifications paragraph! Thank you for your input!.
    Quote Quote  
  19. thanks SatStorm, its a cheap and chearful way of getting good results. Ive tried several 23.976 -> 25 conversions in the past but it never quite came off.

    The only thing that bothers me is that were not really 23.976 -> 25 converting are we? I take it only works because 23.976fps is close to 25fps and the eye/brain can't detect the the video is playing slighlty faster than it should (~4%)

    One question though
    Often the stripped wav length does not match the length of the video (before we have even done any frame rate conversion). If this is the case could we not just speed up the audio at the same rate that we did the video.
    eg (for a 6024 second stripped wav file)
    6023.9243 * (25/23.976)
    Quote Quote  
  20. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    @deaddog
    Sorry, I don't understand your question (I have limited english skills). Can you repait it please in a more simply form?

    The method I posted here, is what the big studios do the cheap way for those kind of convertions.

    The theory for a "true" 23.97 to 25 fps converion, is a 2 step one:
    - You speed up 23.97 to 24fps.
    - You do something called 2:2 pulldown, which makes 24fps to 25fps.

    Also you adjust the framesize.

    This can be done with avisynth easy and fast, but I prefer this method for my projects
    Quote Quote  
  21. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Search Comp PM
    It's a fantastic guide SatStorm
    But it's not working for me, (I think the reason is that I am trying to use NTSC footage captured from a DV Camera)
    Can u tell me a free way to convert this NTSC DV Cam footage to PAL?

    Thank you
    x
    Rbi
    boy dressed as a girl
    Quote Quote  
  22. The Old One SatStorm's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2000
    Location
    Hellas (Greece), E.U.
    Search Comp PM
    Unfortunatelly, there is no way...

    DV is true interlace, so you need to do a framerate convertion.
    One way, it to try load it to virtualdub, resize it to a pal framesize, add framemerger filters and change the framerate.
    Jerky playback that way (like force a DVD standalone convert realtime NTSC to PAL), but there is no other way to do it that easy without using avisynth scripts.

    You have to learn avisynth for the best possible results on this. Try doom9's forum...
    Quote Quote  
  23. Hi again satstorm,
    I'm using the guide with good results -THANKS

    Can someone clarify which options I should select in goldwave to fit the wav file to the new video length?
    (alterntively instructions for any other audio package will do)

    (some people are talking about such things as "pitch" and "tempo" and I dont know if Im doing it right)
    Quote Quote  
  24. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by SatStorm
    there is no other way to do it that easy without using avisynth scripts.
    ok
    I've never used that program
    (And scripts sound complicated)
    I will always be converting captured NTSC from a 3 chip Sony DV Cam to PAL as an AVI
    So is it possible someone knows the script that will do that for me?
    And I can just use the same script each time I need to convert?

    Any help musch appreciated, been trying to sort this out for ages!
    x
    Rbi[/b]
    boy dressed as a girl
    Quote Quote  
  25. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Rubii
    Originally Posted by SatStorm
    there is no other way to do it that easy without using avisynth scripts.
    ok
    I've never used that program
    (And scripts sound complicated)
    I will always be converting captured NTSC from a 3 chip Sony DV Cam to PAL as an AVI
    So is it possible someone knows the script that will do that for me?
    And I can just use the same script each time I need to convert?

    Any help musch appreciated, been trying to sort this out for ages!
    x
    Rbi[/b]
    Going from INTERLACED NTSC to PAL can be a bit of a trick.

    I think your best bet is to check out Xesdeeni's website:

    http://www.geocities.com/xesdeeni2001/StandardsConversion/

    Take a look at section VII. NTSC (Video) DVD (29.97i Fps) -> PAL DVD (25i Fps) which has basically the stuff you need to do. Yes it is geared towards converting from DVD format to DVD format but it easily adaptable to an AVI format.

    This is a sample script based on the one Xesdeeni uses but with an eye towards dong it with AVI instead of MPEG-2

    Code:
    LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
    AviSource("DRIVE:\PATH\VTS_xx_x.d2v")
    SeparateFields()
    Weave()
    SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
    ConvertFPS(50)
    LanczosResize(720,576)
    SeparateFields()
    SelectEvery(4,1,2)
    Weave()
    Please note that line 6 can be either ConvertFPS(50) or ChangeFPS(50)
    They work slightly different so you might want to run a sample both ways to see which one works better with your footage.

    There are also some (mostly expensive) programs designed for converting INTERLACED NTSC to PAL format. I think it is Adam (one of the moderator's here) who is up on those programs so you might want to ask him although he may see this and post.

    Oh yes one last thing ... using this method you should not have to convert the audio. The original audio should sync up with the newly created PAL AVI file.

    OK one final note ... I would do all your "work" such as editing etc. in NTSC DV AVI format (i.e., your source format) and only convert to PAL format when you are nearly done (i.e., at the point of doing your MPEG-2 conversion for DVD assuming that a PAL DVD is your target format). Also I think it might save some quality if you convert the NTSC DV AVI to an uncompressed PAL AVI (or if not uncompressed at least maybe using HuffyUV). In fact come to think of it you probably can go straight from NTSC DV AVI to MPEG-2 PAL format!

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman

    P.S.
    Please note I've never done this with AVI files only with DVD rips but it should work.
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  26. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Search Comp PM
    wow
    thanks for the reply
    When I load the .avs file I've created into TMPGEnc, it says that Smooth DeInterlacer is not an AviSynth 2.5 plugin in red writing across the window.
    When I press the start button, the file being output just has a black screen with that writing in the middle in red...?
    Sorry to bug ya, but do you know why?
    thanks again
    x
    Rubii
    boy dressed as a girl
    Quote Quote  
  27. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    Originally Posted by Rubii
    wow
    thanks for the reply
    When I load the .avs file I've created into TMPGEnc, it says that Smooth DeInterlacer is not an AviSynth 2.5 plugin in red writing across the window.
    When I press the start button, the file being output just has a black screen with that writing in the middle in red...?
    Sorry to bug ya, but do you know why?
    thanks again
    x
    Rubii
    I believe the version of SmoothDeinterlacer on Xesdeeni's website is for the older 2.x version of AviSynth. I usually install AviSynth version 2.08 when I want to use that plug-in. When you are done you can then re-install AviSynth version 2.5x if that is the version you normally use.

    Anyways ...

    Here is a link to AviSynth 2.08

    Link to AviSynth_208.exe

    Follow the link and download the file named "AviSynth_208.exe"

    Good Luck !!!
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  28. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Search Comp PM
    Thanks again
    I downloaded that earlier software and installed it, and now...
    I'm getting a different error message "AVISource: couldn't locate a decompressor for fourcc dvsd" (then it lists the line of the avs code, line 2)

    So...
    I hate to bug ya, but if I go thru exactly what I'm doing from the top, maybe u could tell me where I'm going wrong? (sooo sorry for being a dumbass about this)

    1. Captured NTSC footage from 3 Chip Sony 950 DV Cam onto my HD
    2. Location and name of the footage is:
    C:\Documents\Video\Premiere Captures\rubii.avi
    3. I created a text file, typed the following into it:
    LoadPlugin("SmoothDeinterlacer.dll")
    AviSource("C:\Documents\Video\Premiere Captures\rubii.avi")
    SeparateFields()
    Weave()
    SmoothDeinterlace(doublerate=true)
    ConvertFPS(50)
    LanczosResize(720,576)
    SeparateFields()
    SelectEvery(4,1,2)
    Weave()
    4. Saved this text file with an .avs extention
    5. Opened TMPGEnc
    6. Closed the Wizard
    7. Opened the avi file in the "Video Source" box **At this point the error message apperars in Red Text in the Black window above**
    8. Then I load the DV PAL Template into TMPGEnc (by clicking the "Load" option on the bottom right of the box and selecting it from the list of templates)
    9. Then I load the "Unlock" Template (by the same method as above, except it's in the "Extras" folder) QUESTION: By loading that, have I just "Unloaded" the "DVD PAL" Template?
    10. I select "Video Only" in the Stream Type Region
    11. Specify the output name (I have typed it with an .avi extention)
    12. Chosen Bit Rate and Motion Search Precision options (as Xesdeeni had outlined)
    13. Press Start...an avi appears in the correct place, but when I play it, it just has the Error message in Red against a black screen
    14. I scream and commit suicide (again)

    Sorry to bother you again with this
    I don't do programming or anything, so if someone can just type out what I have to do, I'd be eternally grateful

    Thanks again
    x
    Rbi
    boy dressed as a girl
    Quote Quote  
  29. Member FulciLives's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2003
    Location
    Pittsburgh, PA in the USA
    Search Comp PM
    Sorry but I don't normally work with DV AVI and this sounds like the problem is related to that somehow.

    Wish I could help but I cannot.

    Best to start a new thread on this and the best place to do that would be on the AviSynth forum on the doom9 website.

    They tend to get more technical over there than we do here.

    The doom9 forums can be found at:

    http://forum.doom9.org/

    Good Luck!

    - John "FulciLives" Coleman
    "The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things" - Lucio Fulci
    EXPLORE THE FILMS OF LUCIO FULCI - THE MAESTRO OF GORE
    Quote Quote  
  30. Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Dublin, Ireland
    Search Comp PM
    no problemo John
    thanks again
    x
    Rubii
    boy dressed as a girl
    Quote Quote  



Similar Threads