Best course for upgrades on older comp with new WinTV Go?

[Lcarvone]

I recently purchased a WinTV GO! PCI card mainly for capture of some VHS home movies and the occasional TV program. The computer I will install it on has the following general specs:

Asus TUSI-M mobo (onboard video & audio - SiS ® 630ET chipset)
Celeron 667
196 megs memory
10 gig 5400 RPM ATA66 hard drive (7+ gigs of free space).

I have limited funds for upgrades so based upon what I intend to do with the card is there any area in your opinion where my $ will be best spent?

Any comments, especially from those with first hand knowledge of the card, are greatly appreciated.

LC

[Beavis]

Unless you're thinking of getting a new MB / CPU combo, the best thing for you would be more 7200 RPM disk space.

[Lcarvone]

Well the board will take a Tualatin core cpu so I have some room to grow there. Based on this think faster HD first thing to upgrade?

[fourthquark]

I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but if you intend to capture at full DVD resolution, I think you will find you don't have enough horsepower. Several years ago I tried capturing from VHS to DVD-quality MPEG2 using a P3 1-GHz and WinTV-GO. I finally gave up because of too many dropped frames, producing jerky video. Even at lower resolutions and bit rates, I still had some problems with dropped frames. If you are capturing from TV and don't care too much about video quality, you are probably OK. But if you are intending to use this setup to transfer VHS to DVD and are expecting high quality results, you are setting yourself up for major disappointment and lots of frustration and aggravation.

The problem is not specific to the WinTV-Go - you will get the same bad result with any of the cheap video cature cards (usually based on BT878 chipset) that use your CPU to do the video encoding. Your computer is simply not fast enough.

IMHO, you have two choices:

1. Keep your computer as is (except I highly recommend you add a 7200rpm Hard Disk for video capture), get rid of the WinTV-Go, and get yourself a capture card with a built-in hardware mpeg2 encoder. That way a chip on the card itself (and not your CPU) encodes to video to mpeg2, which allows even slower computers to capture mpeg2 without dropping frames.

2. Keep the WinTV-Go and get a faster computer. The minimum cpu speed for capturing without dropping frames can't really be stated in absolute terms - there are too many other variables. Search the forums for "capture", "speed" and "dropped frames", you will find lots of information.

I personally went for option #1 and it worked great. I ended up getting a Provideo PV256T (T for tuner, they also make one without TV). You can see it at http://www.provideo.com.tw/PV256T.htm . When I bought mine I had to order direct form Taiwan but I think it is now distributed in North America under several other names, of which KWorld is one.

If I had to do it again I would get one of the Hauppauge WinTV-PVR cards. The company is well-established and they are more popular, so more likely to be supported by third-party software (otherwise you are often stuck with the manufacturer's proprietary software when you get a hardware mpeg2 encoder). Check out this site for lots of detailed info on Hauppauge WinTV-PVR: http://www.shspvr.com
Watch which model and which vintage you get, they come with different mpeg2 encoding chips, some better than others; also some have video out and/or FM radio tuner, some don't. Lots of people seem to like the WinTV-PVR 350, but it costs more than the WinTV-PVR 250. Lots of user feedback to be found in the capture card reviews on this site. Also check eBay for current market prices.

If you go this route with another brand, make sure you are buying a model that actually has a HARDWARE mpeg2 encoder - sometimes the advertising is misleading.

Good luck!

[MrMungus]

I'd ditch the WinTV card and go with a Hauppauge PVR-250. I had one and I used it on my P3 750 to capture and the CPU was running at only 55 to 65 percent CPU utilization (for 8mbps D1 MPEG-2 captures). Also, by encoding directly to MPEG-2, you won't need as much hard drive space. Try it and if it doesn't work for you, just return it.

[Lcarvone]

Thanks for all of the great info! I also think the PVR would be a better option but my wallet doesn't agree If I can boost my system with the WinTV Go for the same price as the PVR alone I'd rather do that. As for capturing, my main intention is soley for backup purposes and the occasional TV program. At this point I can't return the card so I am going to give it a go for whatever it will give me. However, since I don't have a DVD burner and my DVD player only plays DVD or VCD (no SVCD) I was more than likely going to capture as a less quality mpeg1 for burning as a VCD on my CDRW.

I think not only for space but also for speed a 7200 rpm hdd is definately on the list. The question is can I get by with the Celeron 667 or would a 1.3 gig Tualatin core Celeron be better or is a full fledged PIII in order?

[Beavis]

You're not going to be able to capture mpeg with that system and video card (and you probably wouldn't want to even if you could because realtime software mpeg capture is pretty poor quality).

You can capture at 352x480 with huffyuv or some other mjpeg codec and convert to vcd / svcd with tmpgenc after encoding and editing. That's about all you can do with your system as it is, and you'll sill need more disk space.

[proxyx99]

If you are thinking of an upgrade, independent from what capture device you will end up with, I would upgrade to largest 7200 rpm HD you can get. Video takes lots of space very rapidly. If you start doing it on a regular basis 2 weeks from now you will have 0 bytes free.
No. 2 is the CPU. They are cheap now so get the fastest that will fit your MOBO. Celeron 2Ghz is about 70 bucks now. If your MB can take it, it would be an excellent idea. Keep 2 things up to date as finances permit: HD and CPU.

[BrainStorm69]

If you want to upgrade your set-up so you can use the WinTV Go, your best bet is to get an inexpensive nForce2 motherboard ($60-70) , a AMD 2500+ cpu ($75), 512 MB of some cheap PC3200 memory ($90), and a large (suggest 120 gig) 7200 rpm hard drive (you can find these for $60-70 after rebate every week in the Sunday sales fliers, otherwise you can get for about $90 online).

All this totals about $300 (or maybe a bit more), about the same as you would pay for a good stand-alone capture device, but you get a VERY substantial system upgrade out of it for everything else that you do.

Personally, I'd upgrade my system rather than the capture card. BTW, if decide to go this way and are looking for a good on-line store, try www.newegg.com. Very good prices and service. And if you decide to just go with the 1.3 Tualatin Celery, they have it for $41 with free shipping.

[Lcarvone]

Funny you should mention Newegg since I also saw that 1.3 Tualatin which is why I mentioned it

One additional thing. I have read in a few places the adage of "garbage in, garbage out". Based loosely upon this you obviously can't make a DVD quality video from a VHS source, correct? If this is so what would be a more direct comparison of VHS to digital?

[BrainStorm69]

As you mention, you can't get DVD quality video out of a VHS source. VHS resolution is about 240x480 vs. 720x480 for DVD. With the right equipment, some tweaking and some practice, you should be able to get your VHS source transferred to DVD with little to no loss in quality from the original source.

Most people here just want to get their VHS transferred to DVD without any degradation in quality, since VHS tape quality continues to degrade over time, whether you are playing the tape or not.

[Lcarvone]

Ok. I think I have decided to follow what many have said and go ahead and ditch the WinTV Go and get the PVR 250. I am also getting a 7200 RPM hard drive but do I now need a faster CPU? In my mind I can somewhat make up the added cost of the PVR by keeping my current CPU (Celly 667) and using that $$?

Thoughts?

[racerxnet]

Here are some specs on the board from Asus

Processor
Socket 370
Intel® FCPGA / FCPGA2 Pentium III (Coppermine / Tualatin) 450MHz ~ 1.2GHz+
Intel® Celeron™ 533MHz ~ 850MHz+

Chipset
SiS® 630ET Chipset
Integrated 3D Graphics
Supports PC133/PC100 SDRAM, UltraDMA/100, 133/100MHz FSB, 5 USB Ports
Integrated LAN

FSB
133/100/66 MHz

Memory
2x DIMM Sockets
Max. 1GB PC133/PC100 ECC SDRAM


I would suggest a two prong approach to this situation. Mainly because the capture card is software based and processor dependant. Get the latest bios and flash to it to support the fastest proccessor available. The processor should be cheap enough to afford. At 1.2 ghz you have almost doubled your processing speed. Get a 7200 rpm drive with enough space. HD's are dirt cheap. Last I would suggest at least 256 megs of PC 133 x 256 for the board. Your cost for this should be roughly $175.00 in the USA.
Unfortunaltely you are then at the max of what the MB has to offer. The cheapest thing to do is maximise the boards capabilities for video capture by tweaking the settings and disabling all background programs.

[Lcarvone]

Thanks for the comments racerxnet. If you lok at my last post I have changed direction slightly and am going with a hardware based PVR card. Still think I need to get a faster CPU?

[BrainStorm69]

Lcarvone, I'm not sure about whether you would need a new processor or not with the PVR-250. But as a "free" upgrade, have you considered overclocking your processor? I believe the 667 still ran on a 66 mhz front side bus ("FSB").

If you have fast enough memory, you can try upping the FSB to increase the processor speed. For instance, if your memory can run at 80 mhz FSB, your processor will be running at 800 mhz. My recollection is that the 667 celerons were fairly overclockable. If you have a good one, you might even be able to run it at 100 mhz FSB, and your processor would then be running at 1ghz! A nice little bump in processing power.

[racerxnet]

His maximum speed is dependant on the FSB and the clock mulitplier. I posted the specs prior.

Cheers MAK

[Lcarvone]

Thanks for the tip and I have tried this with the mobo in the past. The main problem is that there is no way to up the voltage and fsb speeds between 66 and 100 are limited. Maybe it is time to try again with a more robust hsf I have lying around. If memory serves heat was one of my main culprits in the past with this board in terms of stability and to be honest I am not entirely sure if it was with this particular cpu that I had the issues with....hmmm

[racerxnet]

Page 17 of your user manual shows how to set the FSb, which is jumper free through the bios settings, or with the jumpers. You would first need to get the PC 133 x 256 or 512 stick of ram to run at the 133 FSB. JP 0, 1, 2, 3, set the FSB manually on the board. Page 19 shows the jumper settings. You are correct to get a new HSF, these are about $19.00 for a decent unit. If the bios shows the multipier and sets it to the same specs, this is the easier thing to do. If you buy the 1.2 P3 and want to run with PC 100 at the rated speed; FOR GETTA BOUT IT. I'd bet this board will run the fastest P3 with a few mods. Do it right or not at all.

Cheers MAK

[Lcarvone]

I have been overclocking since the Celeron 300A came out so I have a pretty good idea of what needs to be done I'll have to check and see what BIOS version is installed now ; a newer version may have resulted in more fsb options. Capture etc however is new to me and from others I know this is the best site for advice.

side note: Haven't ever had the opportunity to OC with a PIII though so thanks for the heads up racer.

[racerxnet]

Intel PIII Tualatin CPU 1.2Ghz socket 370 w/ Fan Item number: 3464469377

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MAK

[BrainStorm69]

Ack! An SiS chipset! No wonder you don't have any voltage control. I looked at the manual, and you're right, there doesn't appear to be any FSB adjustments between 66 and 100. That's a BUMMER. If your memory and CPU can't do 100, you're s-c-r-e-w-e-d.

And you are also correct in that heat is your worst enemy (particularly since you can't raise the CPU core voltage). Good luck!

[Lcarvone]

Yeah yeah I know, SIS chipset Well, I used this board for a comp I built for one of my kids and their current software requirements for games, educational stuff, etc. is minimal. However it is right by the cable TV and a stereo VCR so this is why I am using it for the PVR

[racerxnet]

I see: 66mhz, 95 mhz, 96mhz, 97 mhz, 100 mhz, 105 mhz, 126 mhz, 129 mhz, and 133 mhz for the FSB. Page 25 lists the speeds in the pdf manual. As for voltage control, I think this is taken care of by the pin arrangement of the CPU. I'll have to check on this though. It will not matter that you can adjust the voltage as the Celeron and P3 use the same 1.45 volt output from the MB. Running at a higher voltage output will INCREASE the heat of the processor. This is why the Thoroughbred runs at a lower voltage than the Palimino core in the AMD line. The same basics apply here.

Cheers MAK