Selective Service

[Capmaster]

I got great pleasure out of calling that professor in June of 1998 and asking him what he thought about my analysis of the situation? I'm not sure I ever got a solid answer on that one.

It's always fun to make someone eat crow

[indolikaa]

Yes, but he ate his crow with dignity. "Whoda thunk it?" was all he could really say.

[Capmaster]

Yes, but he ate his crow with dignity. "Whoda thunk it?" was all he could really say.

A wise man knows when he's been bested, and accepts it gracefully

[VCDHunter]

Note their expenditure for their forces, $55.91 BILLION $, compared to the US's $267.7 BILLION $.....

There are a LOT of them, but they have to go barefoot, eat one bowl of rice a day, and privide their own weapons and uniforms ...a lot like the viet cong.

Yes and we all remember how badly they fared

[pacmania_2001]

The problem with the US defence forces is the amount of politics involved in running it.

It's not like he'd be trying to score points with anybody by fighting a clean war. And since the US doesn't keep any nuclear weapons on the Korean penninsula , why let such a strategic advantage be passed up like that?

But don't forget you have the wonderful Son of Star Wars missile shield that can shoot down things like this... oh wait... it can't.

[Tommyknocker]

Exactly, the problem is, usually these 'minorities' (be it race or sex) demand equal rights yet don't want to go the hard yards that come with having equal rights.

Funny, I could have sworn I was an African American serving in my country's armed forces. According to your post, I and any other minority in my profession, do not even exist. If I understand your post, we haven't paid for, or are not prepared to fight for the very freedoms you claim we demand. Mr. Pacmania_2k, our blood and military heritage runs from Crispus Attucks through the 54th Massachusetts Regiment, through the 99th Pursuit Squadron, and the list goes on and on. Mr. pacmania_2001, either admit you stereotyped big time, or I may be forced to take everything you say as coming from a source with a credibility gap the size of the Grand Canyon. I have a better idea, since you don't know what the heck you are talking about, as there are women in the service as well (who weren't drafted either, by the way), why not talk about things you know about. Because you're poorly educated on this topic, I'm afraid.

This post does not necessarily reflect the views of the U.S. Government, the Department of Defense, or any of its components.

[shoozleboy]

And since the US doesn't keep any nuclear weapons on the Korean penninsula

I'll bet my life savings that we may not have any there ON THE GROUND, because they are OFFSHORE (subs, cruisers?).

[pacmania_2001]

Exactly, the problem is, USUALLY these 'minorities' (be it race or sex) demand equal rights yet don't want to go the hard yards that come with having equal rights.

Not attacking blacks or their role in the military. In fact I would say they were the ones that were unfairly drafted.

My post never suggested I was referring to the military or America at all in fact apart from agreeing with the point Devanshu brought up about the two female bills. I was referring in that particular post to my experience with universities and Australian 'minorities' specifically females and indeginous Australians.

[Tommyknocker]

Exactly, the problem is, USUALLY these 'minorities' (be it race or sex) demand equal rights yet don't want to go the hard yards that come with having equal rights.

Not attacking blacks or their role in the military. In fact I would say they were the ones that were unfairly drafted.

My post never suggested I was referring to the military or America at all in fact apart from agreeing with the point Devanshu brought up about the two female bills. I was referring in that particular post to my experience with universities and Australian 'minorities' specifically females and indeginous Australians.

You get more and more incredible each time you post. I was not "unfairly drafted". In fact, it was very difficult to get to where I am right now. Not because of discrimination, but because the competiton is rough. You are not grabbed and thrown in here. If you are good enough to get out of basic training, then you have to compete against your fellow comrades in arms for and position for leadership who were also good enough to graduate from basic. Now this topic has to do with the Selective Service in the U.S., so either you need to work on your syntax, or stop trying to hijack this topic.

[indolikaa]

@Pacmania_2001,

The Taep-o-dong-2 missile can probably hit Alaska and Hawaii, and the Western United States with modification. That also puts it in range of Australia, and they don't have much love for y'all, either.

I'll bet my life savings that we may not have any there ON THE GROUND, because they are OFFSHORE (subs).

I wouldn't bet the farm on that one. Yet.

Reunification is nice and fine, but if North Korea were to attack South Korea and do so in an unconventional form, I suspect they'd use battlefield nukes. I don't think Kim is crazy (like the Western media likes to portray him) and taking the South's industrial and economic prizes is just no doable any other way. He can't win if he vaporizes half of the population.

Methinks the horsepower in a ballistic submarine is a tad bit higher for the tactical requirement? Now if you want to talk Dial-A-Yield on a Tomahawk, that's different. But with Seoul only a few kilometers from the DMZ, you'd have to use something very limited in size. That's where I'd use an artillery shell, and that's something that would have to be kept at the front. And that's why I suspect they're still there.

I'd go neutron myself, but we don't have those anymore. Jimmy Carter said it was immortal to kill people and not buildings, remember?

DISCLAIMER: I write what I think. You may disagree. That's fine with me. Disagreement is good, mature debate is even better.

[pacmania_2001]

You get more and more incredible each time you post. I was not "unfairly drafted". In fact, it was very difficult to get to where I am right now. Not because of discrimination, but because the competiton is rough. You are not grabbed and thrown in here. If you are good enough to get out of basic training, then you have to compete against your fellow comrades in arms for and position for leadership who were also good enough to graduate from basic. Now this topic has to do with the Selective Service in the U.S., so either you need to work on your syntax, or stop trying to hijack this topic.

I never insinuated that you were drafted. My draft reference was more to do with the Vietnam war and the disproportionate amounts of black people that were drafted in that era, in fact I'd have to have to IQ of a rock to state you were drafted.

@Pacmania_2001,

The Taep-o-dong-2 missile can probably hit Alaska and Hawaii, and the Western United States with modification. That also puts it in range of Australia, and they don't have much love for y'all, either.

Life's a bitch, I could walk outside today and get hit by space debris.

Don't forget either that our lap dog government has said they want to be a part of the missile shield so we're "covered" as well.

From talks with my friend at the RAAF it seems you Americans like a piece of our technology, the J.O.R.N missle system for use with your shield that might actually have a chance at stopping these missiles.

[indolikaa]

We don't mind too much painting the Union Jack (on any forum) on our pretty missiles and such.

I mean, why not? Did you know the US and Britain share the D-5 missile in their submarines? I don't mean the technology, I mean the actual missile. It's our premiere SLBM and we just gave it to the Brits like they're our best friends or something.

[pacmania_2001]

It's our premiere SLBM and we just gave it to the Brits like they're our best friends or something.

Damn, I'll have to go tell John Howard that him and Bush aren't best friends anymore.

[Capmaster]

I'll bet my life savings that we may not have any there ON THE GROUND, because they are OFFSHORE (subs).

You'd lose your life savings on that bet

[shoozleboy]

I don't think so....

If you or anyone else thinks that the US does not have subs armed with nukes in that region, then you are living a pipe dream. They are there. You and I won't have the intelligence information to prove that, but from historical sense, the US ALWAYS has nuke armed vessels at sea, and yes, they are near the Korean peninsula...

I am not saying that the US is looking to nuke anyone, but the deterent remains alive and well.

Someone mentioned Tomahawks... I wasn't even thinking about those, but yes, I'm sure they have nuke tipped Tommy's over there as well...

There is a reason that the US spends $260+ BILLION on military every year.... and it's not because of $800 screwdrivers and ashtrays.... (Although I'm sure that makes up a couple of that billion $ )

[Capmaster]

I don't think so....

If you or anyone else thinks that the US does not have subs armed with nukes in that region, then you are living a pipe dream. They are there. You and I won't have the intelligence information to prove that, but from historical sense, the US ALWAYS has nuke armed vessels at sea, and yes, they are near the Korean peninsula...

I am not saying that the US is looking to nuke anyone, but the deterent remains alive and well.

Someone mentioned Tomahawks... I wasn't even thinking about those, but yes, I'm sure they have nuke tipped Tommy's over there as well...

There is a reason that the US spends $260+ BILLION on military every year.... and it's not because of $800 screwdrivers and ashtrays.... (Although I'm sure that makes up a couple of that billion $ )

I'm currently in the military serving as a weapons specialist officer, so this is right up my alley and I can't resist in setting you straight on a few things.
The SLBM is a strategic weapon, not tactical. There's a big difference. There are two main reasons why your statement is absurd:

1) It doesn't need to be parked "offshore" to be effective.
2) It's not likely to be used in a limited conflict - even a nuclear one. Why? They're too valuable an asset when we have much more suitable tactical weapons, like the cruise missile mentioned by indollika, for example - both the Tomahawk or the ACM. Much cheaper. The SLBMs woke up many a Kremlin official with cold sweats during the cold war, and their strength is in their ability to hide anywhere in the oceans without being detected. Way overkill for the North Koreans :P

And, by the way, anyone who EVER uses the term "nuclear-tipped" is showing the world that his knowledge of nuclear weapons is limited to what he sees in the movies. Don't do that again.

[indolikaa]

shoozleboy, There are Ohio-class vessels loitering near the Korean penninsula, no doubt in my mind. Probably chasing Xia's around for fun. But, without going into great detail, I do not believe for one minute that the United States would have abandoned a nuclear capability on the Korean penninsula.

Not with Kim being this close. Nuclear weapons are about as difficult to produce as ballistic missiles. Until we see some Taepo-dong's flying 1/3 of the way around the world, the bigger fear is 40 kilometers south. You don't need a multi-stage weapon for that. And protecting against that threat is nearly impossible with SLBMs.

You need precision and selectivity and the ability to attack quickly without worrying about a shock wave blasting through 20 kilometers of countryside. An SLBM takes several minutes to launch and longer to reach it's destination. And such a missile is designed for a near-orbit trajectory, not a short-shot trajectory.

Battlefield shells are precise, selective, and can deliver their payload in a matter of one or two minutes. A field commander can predict his target's location with such a weapon much more precisely than having to call in the SLBM shot and hope the target is still there in 20 minutes.

Tomahawks and ALCMs (air-launched cruise missiles) are tactical but are much more useful on fixed targets. Again, a Tomahawk launched from a submarine still takes time, and the advancing army could well be out of range or out of position by the time the missile arrives. Unless you Dail-A-Yield upward, and that defeats the tactical mission.

If you're going to do that, throw a couple of W87s at your target and hope everybody in Seoul turns their TVs and MP3 players off.

[shoozleboy]

Alright - first and most importantly, Capmaster, if you are in fact currently in the military, then my thanks to you for your service to our country. (IF you are actually in the military - as this is cyberspace, you and I have no way to confirm that you are, or if you are just talking out your ass)

Second - I don't believe that I ever said that I was a military expert on anything, but I do follow what our men and women are doing home and overseas. Granted, I don't have the access to information that you may or may not have about operations. My statement was a general one and not specific about using any (if any) nukes from subs or surface directly pointed at Korea. I said that there are nukes in that area. For all I know, and anybody else, the warheads there are aimed at Austrailia! (not being serious about that friends from Down Under, just throwing a name in there) Since the topic was leaning towards Korea, I can see why the assumption was made.

As for watching too many movies - guilty. But that's why I'm here! I have to know how to back up all those movies that I own! BTW, I'm more into the classic WW2 movies more than todays Hollywood crapolla.... and they only had two nukes in that story

Oh, and finally, the last time I checked, the US military takes it's commands from the citizen branch of our country, not the other way around - so f I want to use Hollywood lingo in a response on ANY message board, I will do so... :P

[Capmaster]

Schoozleboy,
Peace, brother My reply was tongue-in-cheek. That's why I used a smiley. I wasn't trying to flame you.

Yes you are correct. We in the military take our marching orders from civilians, as it should be, and I wasn't suggesting otherwise. I just wanted to make the point that we have a myriad of tactical weapons available should, God forbid, we ever take the gloves off with N. Korea. We have the W48 artillery shell, the ACM (Advanced Cruise Missile) with a W80 warhead that can be launched from such aircraft as the B-52, B-1, etc., the Tomahawk, also with a W80 warhead, tactical nuclear bombs like the B61, the list goes on. It would be unlikely we would ever employ the Mark 4/Mark 5 W76/W88 warhead in a tactical engagement. That's for long-range strategic targets that don't move around.

Let's move on and un-hijack this thread - I believe the topic was selective service ......

[shoozleboy]

Cap - I know, I was agitated with something else (outside the cyberspace world) at the moment I replied to you and edited it several times before actually posting it... sorry if it sounded like I was mad with you, I'm not.

And hey, I too used the smiley faces in my reply.... :P

I'm cool with you, peace bro.

I was thinking the same thing, we hijacked this thread like a couple of newbies....

I think it all started with me posting numbers from the CIA "factbook" on China....

Anyway, many years ago when I turned 18, my dad had my ass down at the local post office filling out the selective service paper... Do they still have them at the post office? Just curious....

Oh and Cap - GET BACK TO WORK LOOKING AFTER OUR ARSENAL!!!

[Capmaster]

I think you can do it online in some areas. It's been a while since I had to do it, I think I went to the post office.

Oh and Cap - GET BACK TO WORK LOOKING AFTER OUR ARSENAL!!!

Now ....where the F**K does this extra red wire go? There - it goes to the battery !? .....oops .......oh shit !!!!

[indolikaa]

EDIT: Wrong Thread.

When I registered I didn't even read the card. I just signed my life away and hoped we'd get out of Panama without starting WW3.

And here I thought you could be drafted up to age 35...

.indolikaa.
Wha?

[Capmaster]

When I registered I didn't even read the card. I just signed my life away and hoped we'd get out of Panama without starting WW3.

You missed the chance to chase ole pineapple-face through the forest, and blast him into submission with heavy metal music while he cowered in the Vatican embassy. And they say the military isn't fun

[j1d10t]

I don't know if this is still the law in Oklahoma, but you used to have to show proof that you registered with the Selective Service to renew your driver's license after you turned 18.

If I'm not mistaken, they can ask for proof that you registered if you attend college before you turn 25.

You are required by federal law to register for selective service

Which is stupid, because if you've gotten a drivers license in any state, that state knows how old you are, and your address of record. And if you've ever been employed, the IRS has all of your information, so they too know how old you are, and where you live....... A perfect example of one branch of our government not communicating with the other.

Last year in High School when I was a junior, a Government teacher told us that it is in our own interest (males only) to register with the army as soon as we turn 18. He told us that when he turned 18 he had no intentions to serve so he never registered. In a couple of months he got a letter from the army that stated that he better register NOW if he doesn't want any problems with them.

I doubt that really happened, unless he went around bragging that he didn't register It could have happened, but I, personally, doubt it. I'm not saying that you're making it up, but that your teacher made it up, to make sure you all went and registered. I know a guy that never registered, and he never had any problems with it.

[gmatov]

Idiot,

Much misinfo here.

First, if you are over 18 and male, and you are NOT reg, you will be disqualified from almo0st all federal programs, such as PELL grants, etc.

It is, or was, required to register at your locakl PO after your 18th birthday.

I honestly cannot recall if I had to go to the draft board to register, as I enlisted straight out of high schol, at age 17 and months. Do not recall if was required to go to draft board and tell them I would be availabe if the Russians and the Chinese marched down Main Street, but till then I was 4A, or whatever the code was for been there, done that.

You youngsters should do a search and see how many countries we presently have troops in. You might just be surprised to learn that it is almost all of them, and we do not have enough volunteers to fill all the slots.
You college boys might just go tomorrow, because the climate is not the same today as it was 30 years ago. Only the well to do went to college, then,and today it is almost required, though it will not get you a job. Then, as John Kerry testified to, it was sufficient to keep you from the draft.

And as GW said, he was able to go to the National Guard, linejumping about 800 people, less connected.

And yunz are worried about going to the desert.

At the height of the Viet Nam war, only 1 in 10 was drafted.

And, as for the Noriega thing, and Panama, biggest ******* farce in this modern world. Heartbreak Ridge, or whatever Eastwood called it. Some real vets should come back from the "other side" and haunt his ass for sacrilege.

Some of you, though, might consider it. I read somewhere of 18,600, a year. Granted, I enlisted 42 years ago, but my 78 bucks a month seems to have been kinda picayune. Alhtough aftert 4 months I went all the way up to 84 bucks, and, bye 'm bye to 144 bucks a month.

Coulda been worse. Coulda gone in in WW2, got 21.50 a month,and got your ass shgot off.

Cheers,

George

[j1d10t]

Idiot,

Much misinfo here.

First, if you are over 18 and male, and you are NOT reg, you will be disqualified from almo0st all federal programs, such as PELL grants, etc.

It is, or was, required to register at your locakl PO after your 18th birthday.

I know it is still required that you register when you turn 18, all I was saying is that if you don't plan to attend college until after 25, then you could be OK. My friend just started going to college (he's twenty eight), and (he said) they didn't ask for proof that he registered, and he's never had any problems with the military/government hunting him down.... Maybe he slipped through the cracks or something, or just got lucky, I don't know

[fmctm1sw]

and (he said) they didn't ask for proof that he registered, and he's never had any problems with the military/government hunting him down.... Maybe he slipped through the cracks or something, or just got lucky, I don't know

They don't need to ask for proof anymore. All they need is a last name, birthday and SSN and they can find out online: Darn government!

https://www4.sss.gov/regver/verification1.asp

[shoozleboy]

WHAT CAN YOU DO IF YOU DID NOT REGISTER AND ARE NOW 26 OR OLDER?
If you have passed your 26th birthday and are now being denied eligibility for Federal student financial aid, Federal job training, or Federal employment, or are having difficulty obtaining U.S. citizenship because you failed to register, you have the the following recourse available to you: Explain to the official handling your case (for example, a student financial aid officer) the reasons for your failure to register with Selective Service. A non-registrant may not be denied any benefit if he can "show by a preponderance of evidence" that his failure to register was not knowing and willful. Offer as much evidence supporting your case, and as much detail, as possible.

According to this (off of the Selective Service website) your friend could still find himself being denied Federal student financial aid, Federal job training, or Federal employment....

.... better start getting that excuse ready...

[gmatov]

shoozle,

I was too lazy to do that search. Thanks for the post and quote.

This should be made a sticky, as we have a LOT of young people here who could unknowingly get themselves into a bind later in life.

I, personally, do not hold with the Draft system, as it is a form of slavery. Armed police of one branch or the other will come and haul your ass away if you ignore the telegram headed "Greeting, Your friends and neighbors have selected you to enter the military service for a period of 2 years or the duration of hostilities..."

Hell, I don't even know if they use telegrams anymore. Might be e-mail now. Real good one to set your spam filter for. "But, I never got it. Search my computer."

Cheers,

George

[shoozleboy]

Not a problem!

I even did a search with my last name, SSN, and DOB to find out if I was still in their database (even though I passed the 25 year old status long ago) and WALLA!!

There I was.... number 70-#######-1 (I left out the actual numbers in the middle for obvious reasons! )

From the date I registered, I was 2 weeks shy of 18 years old... My dad must have been in a hurry?