Question for Truman

[fitte]

Hi Truman,

i just read a topic from you. You said that your DVD doesn´t support SVCD thats why you encode everything just like a SVCD in CCE 2.5 and mux it in TMPGEnc back to a XVCD.
Is that right? Is it possible to create a SVCD in CCE and mux it back to XVCD?

I am very interested in this, cause my DVD doesn´t support SVCD as well.......

Looking forward for your answer!

regards
fitte

[Kdiddy]

Im not Truman, but I can yes this is possible, create a mpeg-2 via whatever encoded you choose, then mux with BBmpeg as a VCD...there are some things to note...

It doesnt work with all players....also, some will tell you, that in a sense you are still creating a mpeg-1, so you probably wont see much difference. Meaning, they will say since the compression algorithms of mpeg-1 & mpeg-2 are closely the same (at especially so at same resolution & bitrate erange of 1500-2000)...and when you remux, you are stripping away the mpeg-2 header information & replacing it with a mpeg-1 header, and thus you DVD player will decode it as such....so with that, some will say it is a waste of time, because you are basically taking to different routes to arrive at the same spot.

I did this for a very short while, I didnt notice enough difference tween doing an mpeg-1 with the same settings as I did the mpeg-2...note here: Im talking about in that bitrate range of 1500-2000 at EQUAL resolution only....lower bitrates work better for mpeg-1 & vice versa higher bitrates do better for mpeg-2, plus higher resolution. In the end, this is one of those things that you will have to try for yourself and see if you like it.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Kdiddy on 2001-10-23 16:04:44 ]</font>

[Truman]

Why I do this? This player does not play SVCD, but XVCD.
I use to encode (if the source is DVD) CCE. I had playback problems with CCE's VBR MPEG-1 because the peak bitrate, that cce used was too high. In fact I set max bitrate to ~2400, but cce used ~3000.
CCE MPEG-2 VBR encoding seems to be more accurate. At least I never noticed that big difference between wanted max. and finally used peak bitrate. That's why I use MPEG-2.
To make it playable on that player, I have to mux it with TMPG as Video-CD(non-standard) and author as VCD.
@ kdiddy, this method has nothing to do with quality or MPEG-1 vs. MPEG-2.

[Kdiddy]

I never said that YOUR process/reason for soing this has anything to do with quality...but most people especially newbs, equate SVCD with higher quality than VCD even XVCD,..other wise what would be the point of it?....I understand your point of you dont like how CCE treats the making of mpeg-1...but I doubt that is what the original poster is getting it...because he uses TMPG...I think he may be under the impression that doing this will give him mark improvement over just doing a mpeg-1 XVCD.

[mikk]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-23 01:01:33, Kdiddy wrote:

when you remux, you are stripping away the mpeg-2 header information & replacing it with a mpeg-1 header, and thus you DVD player will decode it as such....so with that, some will say it is a waste of time, because you are basically taking to different routes to arrive at the same spot.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

where did you actually get this information? i thought muxing only put the mpeg into a program stream. it's still mpeg-2, even if it's in a vcd program stream.

i don't know that much about mpeg, but i thought the way mpeg-2 is encoded is quite different from mpeg-1. just look at the encoders and you can see that the settings are way different. how could a player play it as mpeg-1? does anyone know the truth on this matter?

[Truman]

VCDImager recognize it as MPEG-1 and the player probably does it too.
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
...I thought the way mpeg-2 is encoded is quite different from mpeg-1. just look at the encoders and you can see that the settings are way different....
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Only you decide, which settings you use. You can use the same settings for mpeg1 and mpeg2 if you like. Well, VCD has fixed specs and SVCD has also some, but this is a different question.

[Kdiddy]

"i thought muxing only put the mpeg into a program stream. it's still mpeg-2, even if it's in a vcd program stream."

I never said it wasn't a mpeg-2 VIDEO stream, I said the HEADER infomation (which tells a decoder how to read the VIDEO stream) is written as mpeg-1, there by the decoder will try to interpret the video as mpeg-1 NOT mpeg-2. Its sort like putting a different engine in a car, that doesnt chage the type of car you have, and when people see it, they will think its the same car regardless what engine is inside.

" don't know that much about mpeg, but i thought the way mpeg-2 is encoded is quite different from mpeg-1. just look at the encoders and you can see that the settings are way different."

Then you really shouldnt be speaking about this subject then if you first statemnt is "I don't know that much". Check link below and pay close attention to second paragraph

http://icsl.ee.washington.edu/~woobin/papers/General/node2.html

"how could a player play it as mpeg-1?"

Again as discussed, it decode/play as an mpeg-1 one because of the HEADER on the file telling the decoder that the video information is squenced as a mpeg-1.

"where did you actually get this information?"

By researching, something you should try before speaking next time...now getting back to the original poster, I reinterate that "In the end, this is one of those things that you will have to try for yourself and see if you like it."

[fitte]

Hi,

first of all, thanks for the answers. I will try it and see what happens. I was just asking if its possible to do it like Truman, cause CCE must be faster as TMPGEnc and the MPEG1 Encoder is not that good as TMPGENc. So i will try it the way like described in one on Trumans topics and hope it will work

[kidkurrupt]

lol kdiddy you destroyed "antonio s."
his damn template didn't even work in my player either!

[Kdiddy]

Like I said, take his opinions with a grain of salt.

[kidkurrupt]

so instead of following his directions, what other way can i use to trick the player into using the higher resolutions?

i know it'll still suck, but wtf i'm not gonna buy another dvd player just because of this.

[Kdiddy]

Your player doesnt support anything but 352x240 & 720x480??
Is this what you are saying??, Im sorry hard to keep with everyone...if that is true, then there is nothing else you can do (that I know of) to fool it into playing other resolutions. What player are we talking about here??