Audio Synch - Which Way Do I Go

[chris18]

Hope this doesn't cause to many cries of "here we go again" but wanted to pick more experienced brains over audio synch issues.

I recently bought a s/h Dazzle 80 (see my post - Dazzle DVC 80 On Windows XP Pro) that came with MGI Videowave4 software. Got the Dazzle because I wanted to convert my VHS home movies and camera cartridges to DVD or SVCD and I'd read that it was a good cheap way of capturing analogue movies.

First issue I had was that the MGI software wanted an updated indeo codec to work with XP Pro. Looked at the ligos site but they only offer a paid bunch of codecs. After a bit of searching managed to find a FREE XP version of the codec so that problem resolved.

Next issue was that neither the MGI software nor Windows Movie Maker 2 (MM2) would capture audio using the DVC 80 Audio capture device. I then did a 30 minute test capture with MM2 using the normal VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio (WAVE) on my system by plugging the audio out from my camcorder to the line-in socket on the motherboard and that captured both video and audio. I then saved it as an DV-AVI file and used TMPGEnc to convert to MPEG1 and NTI CD Maker to write to a Video CD.

When played on my standalone DVD player the audio started to go out of synch after a few minutes and by the end was around 5 delayed.

Since then been looking at various sites to see if there was a quick solution to the problem but have found a multitude of "opinions" on what MAY be the cause. Also read the excellent article here by Will Hay.

I have just done a test capture using the latest VirtualDub 1.54, which is supposed to synchronize the video/audio, but playing back, admittedly though Media Player 8, there is a definite delay in the audio within 5 minutes, probably earlier but this is a point I can see/hear the delay clearly.

Based on what I've read on the problem it does seem likely that hardware is involved somewhere so I'd like opinions as to what priority I should give to updates based on my existing system.

Motherboard/Processor

Soltek SL-75DRV5 with VIA Apollo KT333 DDR chipset running an AMD Athlon XP 1800+ processor. I've read that the VIA chipset and AMD processor aren't recommended but it's not practical for me to change the motherboard or processor.

RAM

256MB (Crucial256MB DDR PC2100 • CL=2.5 • Unbuffered • Non-parity • 2.5V • 32Meg x 64 ).

SOUND

Onboard controller VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio (WAVE)

GRAPHICS CARD

Voodoo 3 3000 AGP 16MB

HARD DRIVES

PRIMARY Seagate ST36002A ATA 100 (I think) 60Gb partitioned into three. 1st partition (20GB) NTFS running Windows XP Pro with SP1. The other two partitions are FAT32 and used for general data (documents, images etc.)

SLAVE Fujitsu MPE3136AH ATA66 13GB FAT32 partioned into two and used for general data.

Extra RAM and/or another hard drive just for video work wouldn't be a problem.

For sound I've seen the Asonic 6 Channel Soundcard C-media 8738 Chipset 3D card offered on ebay for a reasonable price but don't know what it's like.

For graphics I've seen a s/h Voodoo5 5500 AGP 64MB for sale. Crucial have the 128MB Crucial Radeon 9200 card for sale and these are also on ebay (UK) for a reasonable price.

If I'm going to have to spend money I'd like do it in stages (to see if the problem gets cured) and put it where it's going to give me the best return, so any advice would be much appreciated.

Thanks

Chris

[johns0]

Best thing to do is buy a better capture card,dazzle 80 are very primitve and loose sync very easy,a decent capture card will only set you back $50 and you can capture up to 720x480,also stay away from the voodoo and go with the radeon if you were gonna get a video card,its the early via chipsets(kt133) that were the most problematic,nothing to worry about your system.Also a soundblaster live is a decent sound card you can pick up cheap.Another 256 mb of ram would help,

[chris18]

Hi thanks for the reply.


If I'm not using the Dazzle for audio capture, going straight to sound card, why should the captures loose synch?

Any suggestions as to which capture card I should look at? Assume this would be an integral graphics/capture card or would I still need to change my graphics card?

Also, do you know, do all sound cards use a 3.5mm mini jack?

[WuphonsReach]

You lose sync if the hardware clocks on the video capture device and the seperate audio capture device are not 100.00000% accurate. That's why a lot of folks prefer the external Canopus unit that outputs DV to your firewire connection. It captures both audio and video at the same time and the two hardware clocks are synchronized (or it's the same clock chip).

AFAIK, all sound cards use the standard stereo jack.

The external Canopus ADVC units are best for avoiding the A/V sync issue, but $200-$300. I use a cheap Hauppauge WinTV-dbx PCI capture card along with a good sound card (Santa Cruz Turtle Beach). A/V sync is good for any clips shorter then 30-40 min or so. Longer clips I usually have to de-mux, load the audio into Cool Edit 2000 and stretch it a bit.

[Capmaster]

I then did a 30 minute test capture with MM2 using the normal VIA AC'97 Enhanced Audio (WAVE) on my system by plugging the audio out from my camcorder to the line-in socket on the motherboard and that captured both video and audio.

Bad news doing it this way. In fact, run screaming from this sort of capture attempt :P Save yourself the trouble right now and get a decent capture card that has hardware A/V lock. There are many, and they're not that expensive.

[snafu099]

ADS usb InstantDvd-2 will give you excellent results with no sync problems.

http://www.adstech.com

IMHO, any capture device that does audio seperately is dependant on the configuration/speed of your setup. Thats why you see so many post about sync problems.

This is a hardware encoder direct to mpg which will give excellent results. If you want or need avi, then this is not the product, but then again unless you have a super sys. using anything other than hardware encodeing puts you back to being dependant of sys for syn

[Capmaster]

ADS usb InstantDvd-2 will give you excellent results with no sync problems.

http://www.adstech.com

IMHO, any capture device that does audio seperately is dependant on the configuration/speed of your setup. Thats why you see so many post about sync problems.

This is a hardware encoder direct to mpg which will give excellent results. If you want or need avi, then this is not the product, but then again unless you have a super sys. using anything other than hardware encodeing puts you back to being dependant of sys for syn

One of the worst generators of sync errors was ADS' original attempt at a USB capture box - the USB Instant DVD which came out, I believe, in the fall of 2001. It used the PC sound card to grab the audio and it was useless for capturing anything longer than about 15 seconds. It was that bad :P

The Hauppauge/WinTV PVR-250 is a popular, well-respected capture card that only costs about $150 and the company has a hell of a lot better reputation in the video capping field than ADS. If you own an ADS product I don't mean to piss in your corn flakes. I'm just expressing my opinion, for what it's worth

[chris18]

Hi Guys

Just picked up your posts.

snafu099I was pointed to the ADS USB Instant Video CD by someone who said it worked great but on taking a look it seems to be the Dazzle 80 with a different name.
Just taken a look at InstantDvd-2 which looks similar, also don't know if it's available in the UK.

Still haven't found out why the Dazzle doesn't capture through the USB, can only think my hardware or software setup isn't to it's liking and I have no idea how I get around that!

Capmaster

Thanks for your reply.

I have to confess that at the moment I'm not inclined to spend any more cash until I know FOR CERTAIN that audio sync problem isn't going to happen. Don't want to land up with a cupboard full of capture devices collecting dust.

I am going to fit a creative sound card (s/h) to my system to see what happens, it won't be a waste of money whatever happens.

I am also going to fit a USB card to my wife's PC which is an older PC running W98SE and just see if that works, you never know if could be better!

Have taken a look at the Hauppauge/WinTV PVR-250, looks good and seems to cpature audio through the USB but then again would I still have the USB audio capture problem?

Have also been looking on ebay and there are a lot of Hauppage Win TV products described as WinTV-PVR-PCI or similar. Some are just shown as WINTV-PCI as on following link.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2791976711&category=3761//

Presume these must be earlier versions but the question is are they any good, will they get around the audio sync problems should I decide to take the plunge and spend????

Many years ago I used a Miro capture card and never cured the audio sync problem, I was hoping things would have got better now!

[/url]

[Capmaster]

Chris,

Like I said in the PM, make sure the card you buy captures video and audio with a hardware lock. Otherwise it's like trying to dribble two basketballs at exactly the same time. Easy at first but after 45 minutes ....