WinDV - help in transferring Type-II AVI

[Jim44]

Hi,

I'm using WinDV to transfer from my Canon MiniDV camera via a PCI FireWire card (Win98). I can capture full video & sound in Type-I format just fine, but I don't get any sound if I transfer in Type-II format (as checked by playing in Windows Media Player and VirtualDub). When I check the "File Information" in VirtualDub, there's less than 0.5sec of sound on a 22sec test clip.

I've also tried DVIO and DVApp, and they both work just fine transferring Type-II.

Checking the file Properties in Windows shows:
DVIO & DVApp transferred: PCM 48,000Hz, 16-bit, stereo
WinDV transferred; PCM 32,000Hz, 16-bit, stereo

I really like the interface and control for WinDV, especially the automatic splitting (do either DVIO or DVApp do this?). If anyone has an idea of what might be wrong, I'd appreciate it.

(I've already transferred some Type-I clips with WinDV, and converted them to Type-II with DVConverter to edit in VirtualDub, but that presented a different set of issues that took a while to resolve. I'm hoping to have an easier time of it next time, with your help )

Thanks,
Jim

[pijetro]

Do you have a Type2 DV codec installed, for Vdub to playback, or for WinDV to use???
Do a search on Panasonic DV....


Good luck!!!!!

[Jim44]

Do you have a Type2 DV codec installed, for Vdub to playback, or for WinDV to use???
Do a search on Panasonic DV....

Yep, I have the Panasonic codec installed.

Jim

[pijetro]

I've also tried DVIO and DVApp, and they both work just fine transferring Type-II.

Well, I'd guess the culprit is WinDV..If i were you, i'd do a search on the forum. Sorry, not familiar with that app

Do you have DirectX 8.0 or higher?? Perhaps there's issues with that software that have been overlooked??

[Jim44]

Well, I'd guess the culprit is WinDV..If i were you, i'd do a search on the forum.

I did, and didn't come up with anything. Hence my post

Sorry, not familiar with that app

No problem, thanks for the attempt.

Do you have DirectX 8.0 or higher??

I believe so, yes.

Jim

[pijetro]

Alrighty then, here's some more useless advice

Go to Run, and type in Dxdiag . Near the bottom, you'll see what version of DirectX is currently installed..

As a last ditch effort, open Vdub and go to File>File Information, and tell us what Video and Audio information is shown....

Perhaps there's a mirror site, to download the same app., and give it a try again....By the sounds of other users, it should be okay though..

Here's an interesting site..http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/stream/vidcap/dvavi.mspx

[Jim44]

Alrighty then, here's some more useless advice

Go to Run, and type in Dxdiag . Near the bottom, you'll see what version of DirectX is currently installed..

Shows DirectX9.0a

As a last ditch effort, open Vdub and go to File>File Information, and tell us what Video and Audio information is shown....

Well, VirtualDub can't extract the audio info from a Type-I stream (that's the error I get when loading). The video info is:
Frame size, fps: 720x480, 29.970fpa
Length: 22500 frames (as set in WinDV)
Decopresser: Panasonic DV Codec
Key frames: 22500
Data rate: 28771 kbps

For the audio info, see my initial post (data obtained from "Properties" in Explorer).

Perhaps there's a mirror site, to download the same app., and give it a try again....By the sounds of other users, it should be okay though..

Here's an interesting site..http://www.microsoft.com/whdc/hwdev/tech/stream/vidcap/dvavi.mspx

I'll take a look at it.

One more data point: I performed transfers using DVIO and DVApp to see if they would do automatic AVI splitting (they don't ). The DVApp file (4GB) shows it's audio info as 32,000Hz PCM and has no sound, whereas the DVIO file (also 4GB) shows 48,000Hz PCM audio. So it would appear that the issue is 32KHz vs. 48 KHz, but how to set/change/fix that, I'm not sure.

Thanks,
Jim

[Jim44]

Well, VirtualDub can't extract the audio info from a Type-I stream (that's the error I get when loading). The video info is:
Frame size, fps: 720x480, 29.970fpa
Length: 22500 frames (as set in WinDV)
Decopresser: Panasonic DV Codec
Key frames: 22500
Data rate: 28771 kbps

Just to expand on this point, I used AVIcodec to look at the files, and the video codec name is "Sony Digital Video" and no audio information. The "File:" line shows:
"type: AVI, 0 audio stream(s), quality: 58%".

"Good" files also list the Sony Digital Video codec, but also show the "correct" PCM audio information. The only codec I'm aware of loading is the Panasonic DV codec - do I need to install the Sony one as well?

So it would appear that the issue is 32KHz vs. 48 KHz, but how to set/change/fix that, I'm not sure.

Does ANYONE have ANY ideas as to why WinDV would capture the audio at 32KHz in Type-II, rather than 48KHz?

Thanks,
Jim

[MpegEncoder]

Does ANYONE have ANY ideas as to why WinDV would capture the audio at 32KHz in Type-II, rather than 48KHz?

Because it's not "capturing", it's tranferring what it's given via the firewire port. I believe that this is the audio format from the camcorder. This is what I get from my Sony Camcorder.

You'll get the same results with DVIO

[dun4cheap]

You could try the Canopus AVI converter which is free on the canopus web page. Quite a few conversion options, simple to use. I use this all the time converting dv I to DV II for Studio 9.

[Jim44]

Because it's not "capturing", it's tranferring what it's given via the firewire port. I believe that this is the audio format from the camcorder.

Thanks for the response, MpegEncoder. However, this isn't borne out by my further experiments this past weekend.

Using the default setup in WinDV, it tranfers 22500 frames into one file, then does the automatic splitting and starts another file. What I've discovered is that the first file has audio of 32KHz, while the subsequent files have audio of 48KHz. When I look at the File Information of the first file in VirtualDub, there's actually less than 1 sec of audio in the 12-minute clip. Looking even closer, WinDV drops 1 frame right when it starts.

I don't know how these bits of information are related, but it's lead me to a work-around. There's usually 5-10 minutes of "lead" footage on the tape (in-car race footage, and I usually start the camera on the grid). So I let the unwanted footage form the first file that WinDV transfers, and all the subsequent files have sound, are of the footage I want to transfer, and drop right into VirtualDub for editing, etc.

Jim

[Jim44]

You could try the Canopus AVI converter which is free on the canopus web page. Quite a few conversion options, simple to use. I use this all the time converting dv I to DV II for Studio 9.

Thanks for the response, dun4cheap. I've looked at that converter, and actually used the Ulead one in early attempts to work with this video.

The problem I ran into, however, was that the audio streams weren't the same across several transfered AVI segments (see post above). So now I had *2* additional steps:
-Convert Type-I to Type-II
-Convert the audio of the first segment to 48KHz so that all the segments would get encoded to one file in one shot in TMPGEnc

While this was do-able, the audio-converted file had a bit "crackling" in the left channel, and while it was OK, I did found it annoying.

Besides the engineer side of me knew there had to be a way to make this work "properly"

Thanks again,
Jim

[MpegEncoder]

Because it's not "capturing", it's tranferring what it's given via the firewire port. I believe that this is the audio format from the camcorder.

Thanks for the response, MpegEncoder. However, this isn't borne out by my further experiments this past weekend.

Jim

Not to doubt your experimentation skills, but

There's no reason for WinDV to change audio sample rates. It's really a file copy utility as are all programs that "capture" DV from a camcorder or other fireware DV device.

I tried a little experiment also. I set WinDV to capture 600 frames per file. What I got was several 20 second videos, each with 32k audio. That's what I would have expected.

It sounds like you have some strange things going on. There's also no reason for WinDV to always drop one frame right at the beginning.

One other thing, 32k audio is not really a problem. You just have to upsample it to 44.1k or 48k (depending on what you're going to do with it). You can do that with VirtualDub or TMPGEnc (or some other audio program separately). I just let TMPGEnc do it, but make sure to set it to "High Quality" in the environmental settings. If I really want it "perfect", I extract the audio and use Adobe Audition to upsample.

[Jim44]

I tried a little experiment also. I set WinDV to capture 600 frames per file. What I got was several 20 second videos, each with 32k audio. That's what I would have expected.

Which is a bit different results from what I'm seeing. The first clip shows 32KHz audio, but VirtualDub shows less than a second's worth of audio, in whatever length clip I capture. All subsequent segments have valid audio at 48KHz.

It sounds like you have some strange things going on.

I figured that . It seems to be some interaction with my computer, FireWire card, camera and WinDV. As mentioned previously, Type-II transfers with DVApp, DVIO, and Scenalyzer did not exhibit this problem. If I hadn't found the work-around with WinDV, I probably would have paid for Scenalyzer (since DVIO and DVApp don't do automatic AVI splitting).

When I get re-employed, I'll have more money for SW (and for the race-entry-fees that generate the video )

One other thing, 32k audio is not really a problem. You just have to upsample it to 44.1k or 48k

I had tried this (after converting the Type-I to Type-II), using VirtualDub, but didn't like the result of the audio (see previous post). I'll may try your suggestion of using TMPGEnc next.

Thanks again,
Jim

[MpegEncoder]

I had tried this (after converting the Type-I to Type-II), using VirtualDub, but didn't like the result of the audio (see previous post). I'll may try your suggestion of using TMPGEnc next.

Thanks again,
Jim

With VirtualDub, did you select the "High Quality" mode also? That makes a big difference. If you use TMPGEnc, make sure that you set the "High Quality" audio conversion in the environmental settings.

[Jim44]

With VirtualDub, did you select the "High Quality" mode also?

Hmm, now I see it My guess would be no, I didn't. Rats.

I'll give that or the TMPGEnc way a try next chance I get.

Thanks,
Jim

[Jim44]

One more bit of information I uncovered:

Previously, I had been using the WinDV controls to start and stop the camera (camera would be in either "stop" or "pause", press "Capture" in WinDV to start both the tape and the transfer).

What I did this time was start playing the video with the camera's controls THEN select "Capture" in WinDV.

Viola, full sound in the first transferred clip!

Another (and easier) work around; or maybe this is the way it's supposed to work. Either way I'm fairly satisfied with the solution.

Thanks to everybody who took the time to reply. I really appreciate it. This whole site has been a great source of information.

Jim

[Jim44]

One more bit of information I uncovered:

Previously, I had been using the WinDV controls to start and stop the camera (camera would be in either "stop" or "pause", press "Capture" in WinDV to start both the tape and the transfer).

What I did this time was start playing the video with the camera's controls THEN select "Capture" in WinDV.

And, it turns out, what I experienced was a known bug. I finally got a reply from Petr Mourek the developer of WinDV:

There is a bug, I know about it, someone has these problems.
I'll fix it in some future version.
If you first switch the camcorder to play some video and then start capturing, you should get the sound.
Petr M.

Just thought I'd finalize the thread.

Jim

[victor010170]

Hi Jim44,

Looking to your works, I am very impress. This leadme to contact you to ask for help. Here is why.

I capture analog movie with sony digital dv to pc (dcrtrv350). The sofware is image mixer. It runs ok but only allow me to down load at 4 gb in avi then stop. Sony told me it designs that way. Then I use tmpgenc plus 2.5 to decode and burn to dvd with tmpcenc dvd author. I am content with the movie but needdless to say, the video is a little less than my regular vhs on tv.

I was told virtualdub is doing better job for capture and will capture the whole movie with dv if I know how to change, adjust the set up after install it.

Well, I am not programer, nor pc guru; I searching many websites to looking for the instruction of how to install virtualdub with dv capture and capture through the end of movie, not 2.0 gb max default. then all I want is to open with tmpgenc. If any of you have any instruction guides, please send me i am greatly appreciated. Thanks.

[MpegEncoder]

Hey victor010170,

VirtualDub does NOT do DV firewire captures (downloads really). Use WinDV or DVIO. I used to use DVIO, but now use WinDV (it's a bit nicer). Just look to the tools link on the left.

[Jim44]

It runs ok but only allow me to down load at 4 gb in avi then stop. Sony told me it designs that way.

That a "feature" of an operating system that uses FAT32, like Win98. The OS can't work with files bigger than 4GB.

That's one of the nice things about WinDV. It does automatic file splitting, and you can set the split size. I usually use it with the default setting (22500 frames, about 2GB). Works great.

Sorry, can't help with analog capture. You can try the "Capturing" forum.

Hope that helps,
Jim