TMPGEnc and Sound Encoding

[Nick Burns]

I'm following the guide: Configuring TMPGEnc for high-quality, DVD-compliant MPEG-2 and it mentions:

There are two reasons not to encode the audio in TMPGEnc:

The first is the fact that MPEG audio is not standard on all DVD players. Although it is supported by all PAL players (and many recent NTSC models), some authoring programs still refuse to add MPEG audio directly to their projects, and will instead convert it to PCM (uncompressed). Since MPEG audio uses lossy compression, the quality that was lost in the compression is not recovered. By contrast, the space that was saved by the compression is lost again. So, using MPEG audio in these programs is a lose-lose situation. The only two formats guaranteed to be compatible with all players are PCM and AC3.

The second reason is the fact that there are several MPEG audio encoders that produce better quality than TMPGEnc. So even if your authoring program does support MPEG audio, and if you're sure the resulting discs will only be played on DVD players that support MPEG audio, you should still use TMPGEnc only for the video, and encode the audio in a separate application (if you do a quick search on the web for "MPEG audio encoding" you should be able to find several guides about the subject).

I've captured my VHS-C tape with the ADVC-100 and now have a 20GB (1 1/2 hr) file on my HD.

How should I go about encoding the sound?
Do I have to remove the sound from the AVI?
What do I use to splice them back together and know that they are in sync?

Also, on a slightly related topic, if the source is analog (VHS-C), but ADVC is converting it to DV, what should my field order be [Field order
Bottom (for DV) or Top (for analog) ]

[disturbed1]

Depends on what tools you already have.

Premiere Pro can output Mpeg2 Layer 2, LPCM, AC3, same with Vegas.

You can use TMPG to encode the audio. If you set it to output wav as audio, then it won't touch the audio portion of your AVI. TMPG can also use plugins to encode the the audio to mp2 (tooLame).

For ac3 encoding you've got Sonic Foundry's Soft Encode (no longer sold), Vegas and Acid Pro, SureCode (plugin for Adobe Premier), plus the encluded tools with Reel DVD, Scenarist, DVDit! PE, DVD Architect, My DVD Deluxe, and TMPG Author.

Besweet doesn't make DVD Compliant AC3 files. DVD mandates big endian ac3 files, Besweet outputs in Intel Byte order (little endian) which is wrong.

If your audio needs edited, you can demux it with Virtual Dub, then use an editor of your choice.

Your authoring software will take elementary (.m2v .ac3/.wav/.mpa) and remux to vobs.

[sacajaweeda]

Load the AVI you captured into VirtualDub and open the streams list window and select the save wav button. If you used the ADVC-100 to capture it you shouldn't have any synch problems from what I've read from others who use it, but if you do you can check the file lengths in VDub by pulling up the file info (under file menu) to determine how much of an offset you need to correct it.

[rcb]

I also use an advc-100 and TEMPGEnc for encoding.

But, I simply use the TMPGEnc wizard with the "DVD NTSC" stting selected and use the " VBR MPEG-1 LAYER II (MP2) " option on page 1.

In page 2 of the wizard, I load my csptured AVI file and Bottom field first is automatically chosen.
On page 3, i usually use Source Range to edit start/finish and any unwanted sections within the clip.
On page 4, I choose 720 x 480 for video resolution, 224 for audio bitrate and then adjust the estimated file size to =<4100 mb, looking to keep the average video bitrate =>5000.
Page 5, I simply set up an unique name and folder location for the mpg file about to be produced hit "start encoding".

Steps 1 thru 5 are usually done just before I retire for the night. Typical encoding time runs 8-10 hrs for a 1hr 30 min clip.

The following day, I use TMPGEnc DVD Author to ad menus/chapters.. then compile.
At that point, I run a defrag on the drive where the compiled files are located and then burn, using TDA's builti-in burning app.

As the advc-100 gives me a sharp, crisp video along with locked audio, I find the finished burned dvd to be very playable on various set top players with good audio.

Perhaps those with expensive home theatre audio systems might want to redo their audio separately.... I just don't find a need for it.

And, I'll leave it to those who do to give you tips/directions on how to do such.

Good luck.

[basstrap]

You can use TMPG to encode the audio. If you set it to output wav as audio, then it won't touch the audio portion of your AVI.

I'm looking to convert LPCM to AC3 in TMPGenc Author. I know that I don't want to encode my audio using TMPGenc Plus. However, I am not sure if I should let it resample my audio if the original AVI LPCM audio is not at 48 kHz.

Will TMPGenc do a good job at resampling, or is it better to do this in a different tool to get a good quality .wav file?

[andie41]

Many people have Nero and there is an AC3 plugin available at http://neroplugins.cd-rw.org/ (this is a good site, but I just tried and couldn't access - hopefully only a temp problem) and with this plugin installed, you can use the Nero Wave Editor to convert to AC3. Nero also has a commercial plugin, as well.

If you have the AC3 plugin for TMPGenc DVD Author, apparently it will convertc to AC (I don't have that plugin.) Otherwise you can produce the AC3 in another app and TDA will accept the AC3 without re-encoding.

[basstrap]

Thanks for the response. I do plan to use the AC3 plug-in to TMPGenc DVD Author.

My concern is whether the .wav file that I produce with TMPGenc Plus will be acceptable. I've read a lot of posts that recommend not using TMPGenc Plus for audio. I'm trying to figure out if the concern is the encoding to mpeg 1 - layer II or if there is also a quality problem with resampled LPCM.

[dwiesel]

I don't undertsand why everyone says not to use TMPGenc for audio...??

I capture my AVI (both audio and video), then use TMPGenc, plugging in the same AVI file for video and audio source:

- stream type = System (Video+Audio)
- audio stream = MPEG-1 Audio Layer II, 48000, bitrate=384

I am anal about sound quality, and through Sennheiser headphones can hear no difference between the DVD and the original source AVI....granted, I'm only encoding simple stereo...maybe it's a problem for other formats?

Isn't using MPG for audio advantageous in that it frees up bitrate usage and lets you hike up the video bitrate when you need the max?

And these DVD's play and sound fine on various standalone players.

So what am I missing that I shouldn't be using TMPGenc for audio? If there is better method that will yield higher quality, or shortcomings I'm missing, please let me know. Thanks.

[PIntag]

So what am I missing that I shouldn't be using TMPGenc for audio? If there is better method that will yield higher quality, or shortcomings I'm missing, please let me know. Thanks.

As stated in the guide, the DVD standard officially only supports LPCM and AC-3 audio formats. That said, most standalone DVD players do play the MP2 format from TMPGenc without problems, so this issue may not be that important to you. However, if you want to be sure that your burned DVD will be compatible with the DVD standard, then TMPGenc is not good for audio processing. I think this was pretty clearly pointed out in the first post (didn't you read it?).

For my projects, I do follow what the guide suggests by using TMPGenc for the video encoding only and I have it output the elementary audio stream. I then use Sonic MyDVD 5.2 (which came with my Sony burner) for authoring. MyDVD 5.2 includes AC-3 audio compression as an option (in addition to LPCM). I simply feed the TMPGenc'd output files into MyDVD and choose "Dolby Digital" audio encoding. The audio gets encoded without the video being re-encoded during the "Burn" step. My needs are pretty modest, but this process works pretty well for me so far.

[MpegEncoder]

I don't undertsand why everyone says not to use TMPGenc for audio...??

Once upon a time, in a land far, far away.....

But really, long ago TMPGEnc had really crappy sample rate conversion. But these days, if you make sure to set the sample rate conversion to "High Quality", it works just fine.

[dwiesel]

PIntag...I spend HOURS looking through many threads for relevant info on many aspects of the DVD creation process, which I also spend HOURS testing...given whatever was previously said...and I DID read this...you're missing my point:

I'm stating that I have tested the use of MPG audio in three different standalones and it works fine...your statement and others' that TMPGenc audio is "no good" is, in fact, VERY GOOD for me as far as audio quality, which I think for most of us, is VERY IMPORTANT. All I was trying to do was state this and get some feedback WITHOUT attitude --if that's not too much to ask. I have always been friendly, courteous, and appreciative (and communicate such) when in these forums.

Testing/asking/reading/responding...this all takes time and effort, which I and others have put in. My point, made quite clear I hope, is that nobody wants some pompous know-it-all slapping him on the hand like a little kid.

Congrats on being the first person I had the displeasure of putting in his place. My apologies to the other members of this forum for getting off track.

[PIntag]

With all due respect, dwiesel, I think your previous comments on this topic leads one to believe that you misunderstood what was being asked. Specifically, you stated:

So what am I missing that I shouldn't be using TMPGenc for audio? If there is better method that will yield higher quality, or shortcomings I'm missing, please let me know. Thanks.

I think it is pretty clear to anyone who read the first post in this thread what TMPGenc's exact shortcomings with respect to audio are. You did not address these issues in your post, but instead talked about how great the MPEG layer II quality is. (The fact that you tested your results on a whopping 3 standalones does not qualify you to state that MPII audio files are compatible with the DVD standard.) I do understand and agree with your point that most users can use this with no problems at all, but you didn't really give me the impression that this was the point of what you were saying.

Honestly, I think you're digging yourself into a deeper hole here with your defensive response to my post. It's OK to admit that you didn't thoroughly read the first post (as you obviously did not) -- digital video is a very complex topic and reading through all of these posts in this forum makes us all a little crazy (especially if we are up until all hours of the night trying to get our videos encoded right!).

[dwiesel]

One thing is true, I did read through the post. I have nothing to gain by lying about that. You assumed I didn't, that is what got me defensive (and yes, I am tired from all the never-ending testing). And, I know three standalones doesn't qualify as the majority of players out there.

My point is, regardless of the recommendations and shortcomings mentioned for TMPGenc audio, in terms of quality, I can hear no loss in my final DVD as compared to the original source. That is something that others should be aware of and that I wanted to share (to be fair to TMPGenc), since most of us want high quality. Maybe TMPGenc has improved it's audio from previous releases, I've only been using it a few short months so can't say how the audio might have sounded back then.

I'm letting go now.

[dwiesel]

OK, my bad (and my apologies).

I was premature (and just not plain thorough)...though the MPG's sounded good encoding with both MPEG and AC3 audio, I decided to listen to a very quiet audio passage through headphones; sure enough, the MPEG audio sounded kinda crappy (tinny/high end hiss)...it's very mild and nothing I would notice without headphones, but it is there.

It's AC3 from now on for me!