Basic help needed for creating menus

[ashsharma]

Ok, I might just need a link to a guide, I have looked but cant find one.

I've got several episodes of video that I want on 1 DVD with a menu at the beginning of the disk to each of the episodes (can be quite basic) and also chapter intervals within each episode.

I've already encoded the Mpegs with tmpgenc plus and I'll be using Tmpgenc dvd author to create the dvd.

can anyone give me a starting point as to how to do this?

[fritzi93]

DVDAuthorGUI can do it, it's freeware. Aren't there any guides for your authoring prog? There are a couple guides for DVDAuthorGUI if you look in Guides>How to category>How to author a basic DVD. For some reason you can't find them searching by tool within the guides. Maybe try the same search procedure for TMPGEnc DVD Author? Good Luck.

[ashsharma]

ok thanks, I think I've got a fair idea how to do it after searching through some other thread.

I'm guessing in tmpgenc dvd author I add each episode as a new track rather then just adding each file to the same track then there's some kind of template for creating a basic menu.
Is this right?

[daamon]

Is this right?

Yes, spot on. Just select a predefined menu layout that fits your needs.

[dafreak]

I'm guessing in tmpgenc dvd author I add each episode as a new track rather then just adding each file to the same track then there's some kind of template for creating a basic menu.
Is this right?

yep, you're right.
after you've selected where your audio and video files can be found, there's a button that says "edit clip" on the upper-left corner of the window. You can use that option to enter chapter points.

once you're done adding all your video clips and chapter points, the next step will allow you to customize the menus.

[ashsharma]

Excellent, it worked a treat, I especially like the moving thumbnails of each episode and each chapter, though I'm not sure if these take up a lot of extra room on the disk?

[daamon]

Excellent, it worked a treat.

Well done.

...though I'm not sure if these take up a lot of extra room on the disk?

Don't know on that one. Though I'd be interested to know...

From reading the info on https://www.videohelp.com/dvd#struct (section titled "DVD File/Folder Structure"), it looks like you need to look how motion menus affect the size of "VTS_01_0.VOB"...

[ashsharma]

Ah, I'll check it later, I didn't really pay much attention to the sizes when I burned them using Nero, I don't remember any of these being to large though, maybe a few Mb.

The reason I asked it because I have another set of episodes that I hoped to fit onto a single dvd, however the total length is 245 mins, so I'm guessing these might not all fit onto 1 dvd, is this correct?

[daamon]

maybe a few Mb

That'd be my guess...

however the total length is 245 mins, so I'm guessing these might not all fit onto 1 dvd

Not at full DVD resolution - 720 x 480/576 (NTSC/PAL) - and with a decent (I know it's subjective, but you know what I mean) quality.

I've seen this approach mentioned, though never tried it: You could have a try at what's called "1/2 D1" - 352 x 480/576 - as you can use much lower bitrates (not sure what values), and it's still a valid DVD spec so should still play on your stand-alone DVD player. Particularly if you're source is VHS tapes...

I'm not sure how much you can fit on a disc though... A quick look at the DVDRHelp Bitrate Calculator said that to get 2h45m onto a DVD, the rate would have to be around 3,400 kbps (for full D1). At 1/2 D1, I'm guessing if you use a rate of around 2,500kbps you should be OK in terms of size, and maybe (insert disclaimer here...) OK for quality.

I'm basing this on SVCD's being 480 x 480/576 and at 2,600kbps.

Have a search and read. I hope I've planted a seed of thought...

[ashsharma]

I'm not sure how much you can fit on a disc though... A quick look at the DVDRHelp Bitrate Calculator said that to get 2h45m onto a DVD, the rate would have to be around 3,400 kbps (for full D1). At 1/2 D1, I'm guessing if you use a rate of around 2,500kbps you should be OK in terms of size, and maybe (insert disclaimer here...) OK for quality.

Sorry, it's 245mins not 2hr 45min.

Using the bitrate calculator is says the bitrate would need to be <2000, and I don't think it's possible to using a bitrate of less than 2000 on tmpgenc.
I think the only alternative I'll have is to cut parts of the episodes like the credit to try and gain 5 mins or maybe put it on 2 disks, unless you have any other ideas.

By the way, why can't you buy 9Gb recordable disks? would make life a lot easier!

[mmasw]

Excellent, it worked a treat, I especially like the moving thumbnails of each episode and each chapter, though I'm not sure if these take up a lot of extra room on the disk?

that's simple to determine:

while in the menu options dialog box if you check and uncheck 'use motion menu' , the size of the dvd (in MB) in the colored bar at the bottom will change accordingly

[briandugas]

I'm not sure how much you can fit on a disc though... A quick look at the DVDRHelp Bitrate Calculator said that to get 2h45m onto a DVD, the rate would have to be around 3,400 kbps (for full D1). At 1/2 D1, I'm guessing if you use a rate of around 2,500kbps you should be OK in terms of size, and maybe (insert disclaimer here...) OK for quality.

If the bitrate was 3,400kbs for full D1, then it would be the same at 1/2 D1. The way I understand it, the bitrate determines file size, not resolution. The problem is, 3,400kbs at 720x480 is a cappy ratio of bits/resolution. On the other hand, 3,4000kbs at 352x480 is not a crappy ration of bits/resolution. So, at 1/2 D1 you get more bits per frame, resulting in a better looking picture. This is just my understanding though. I may be completely wrong, and I'm hoping someone will correct me if so.

[daamon]

Sorry, it's 245mins not 2hr 45min.

In my endeavours to figure something out, 245 mins turned into 2h45m in my head - my mistake...

But, the "1/2 D1" suggestion still stands - just means that you might have to do 2 DVD discs.

By the way, why can't you buy 9Gb recordable disks? would make life a lot easier!

Coz, unfortunately, "they" don't make 'em yet. I agree with you - but it's only a matter of time...

[mmasw]

Sorry, it's 245mins not 2hr 45min.

Using the bitrate calculator is says the bitrate would need to be <2000, and I don't think it's possible to using a bitrate of less than 2000 on tmpgenc.
I think the only alternative I'll have is to cut parts of the episodes like the credit to try and gain 5 mins or maybe put it on 2 disks, unless you have any other ideas.

By the way, why can't you buy 9Gb recordable disks? would make life a lot easier!

what??....of course you can get less then 2000 as a bitrate. I do it all the time.

I'm not sure if you are referring to TMPGEnc or TMPGEnc DVD Author.

Either way you can jack the bitrate way down. In TMPGEnc, just edit one of the standard templates. I've created several different new templates. Some at full resolution, some at half D1 and even a couple of DVD templates for converting VCD to dvd that have bitrates of 1250-1500 with 352 X 240 resolution. You have to be sure to leave the GOP settings unchanged if you want to us TDA though.

The quality isn't great, but that's the source.

A few things you can try to save space. When creating your dvd make sure you only create the main menu if you don't need to have chapter point menus. You'll still have the chapter points, just no menu pages for them.

You can also forgo motion menus....for a half dozen thumbnails that can be 100-200MB depending on thumbnail size. If you want motion menus you can reduce the loop time.

You can also create an oversized VIDEO_TS folder and then use DVD Shrink to reduce it.

[daamon]

If the bitrate was 3,400kbs for full D1, then it would be the same at 1/2 D1. The way I understand it, the bitrate determines file size, not resolution. [etc.]

You're totally right on everything you've said. But there's a key thing that you mention:

On the other hand, 3,4000kbs at 352x480 is not a crappy ration of bits/resolution. So, at 1/2 D1 you get more bits per frame, resulting in a better looking picture.

And it is because of this that the bitrate could be lowered (perhaps down to around 2,200) meaning that (as per a rough calculation on the bitrate calculator - working backwards) around 4 hours (240 mins) can be shoe-horned onto a disc.

I have to say, that this is all hypothisis as I've never done it - I'm just going on what I know and what I've read.

As I hinted at earlier, the quality won't be up to SVCD, but will be nearer to that than VCD. And won't matter too much if the source is VHS (or similar quality).

@ ashsharma

If you give the "1/2 D1" a go at 2,200 kbps (don't forget to take the audio into account), please post back how it turned out...

[ashsharma]

Sorry, it's 245mins not 2hr 45min.

Using the bitrate calculator is says the bitrate would need to be <2000, and I don't think it's possible to using a bitrate of less than 2000 on tmpgenc.
I think the only alternative I'll have is to cut parts of the episodes like the credit to try and gain 5 mins or maybe put it on 2 disks, unless you have any other ideas.

By the way, why can't you buy 9Gb recordable disks? would make life a lot easier!

what??....of course you can get less then 2000 as a bitrate. I do it all the time.

I'm not sure if you are referring to TMPGEnc or TMPGEnc DVD Author.

Either way you can jack the bitrate way down. In TMPGEnc, just edit one of the standard templates. I've created several different new templates. Some at full resolution, some at half D1 and even a couple of DVD templates for converting VCD to dvd that have bitrates of 1250-1500 with 352 X 240 resolution. You have to be sure to leave the GOP settings unchanged if you want to us TDA though.

I'm not sure how to get the bitrate down to below 2000. When I load the dvd template, tmpgenc doesn't let me reduce the average of min bitrate to below 2000 (im using 2-pass vbr), if i change it, it simply puts it back to 2000. Even when I use the wizard it lets me change the bitrate to below 2000 but then when I get to the part where it displays how much of the dvd it will use the average bitrate is back at 2000!

[ashsharma]

@ ashsharma

If you give the "1/2 D1" a go at 2,200 kbps (don't forget to take the audio into account), please post back how it turned out...

I don't think I'm competent enough at encoding yet to do that. What I've tried this time is to change the audio from stereo to mono in tmpgenc dvd author, this has managed to trim off the extra MB, will have to wait til it's finished to see if it will actually burn.

BTW what the exact size in MB you can fit on a dvd using overburn?

[mmasw]

I'm not sure how to get the bitrate down to below 2000. When I load the dvd template, tmpgenc doesn't let me reduce the average of min bitrate to below 2000 (im using 2-pass vbr), if i change it, it simply puts it back to 2000. Even when I use the wizard it lets me change the bitrate to below 2000 but then when I get to the part where it displays how much of the dvd it will use the average bitrate is back at 2000!

ok....I'll tell you a method....I'm sure there are others; I'm no expert at TMPGEnc

1st...open TMPGEnc in standard form without the wizard. Then, on the bottom right hand corner click load and select the standard DVD template.

Next, save the template in another folder. You can create a folder of edited templates. This way, the supplied templates aren't changed.

Then click load again and load your newly saved template. Next click on settings and you're ready to edit the options. If an option (and most of them will be at this point) is unaccessible/greyed-out, simply right click on the line item and then you can 'unlock' the option and edit.

This way you can change resolution etc.

You can also now change the bitrate settings. For VBR for instance, you could set 0 as minimum, 1850 as maximum, 1500 as average. You can experiment with different settings, not only comparing various VBR template possibilities, but those of CBR and Constant Quality as well.

Don't even open the GOP Structure page...you won't need to change anything there. Just the Video page and the Audio page need some editing at this point if you want to reduce file size, and perhaps you'll be in the advanced page if you're applying filters.

While editing, you can even open a second copy of TMPGEnc so as to simply open the supplied DVD template, that way you can compare your edited version to make sure you haven't inadvertantly made some changes. You'll still be able to read most of the settings in the supplied template even if it is greyed-out.

[mmasw]

BTW what the exact size in MB you can fit on a dvd using overburn?

hmmm....just what software are you using that gives you the option of overburning a playable dvd?

[ashsharma]

Thanks very much for the info, I'll give it a go.

Maybe I'm getting confused about the overburning but I'm sure I read somewhere on the forum that some software reduces the size a dvd can be by not reading to the absolute edge of the dvd, and this can be corrected by overburning. I might be completely wrong but I'm sure I've used an overburning function when burning dvds and vcds

[ashsharma]

You can also now change the bitrate settings. For VBR for instance, you could set 0 as minimum, 1850 as maximum, 1500 as average. You can experiment with different settings, not only comparing various VBR template possibilities, but those of CBR and Constant Quality as well.

it still wont let me put the min bitrate to below 2000, maybe I'm doing something wrong. I'm using 2-pass vbr.

[ashsharma]

It seemed to work fine leaving the video bitrate at 2000 and reducing the audio bitrate a bit and it they just managed to fit onto a dvd.

Going back to the original subject, I've managed to create the menu fine, but how do get it to NOT include one of the tracks in the menu.

Um, maybe I should make it a bit clearer.

What I've done is encode the first 5 seconds of one of the episode to give an intro to the dvd. Then I've got the menu to play listing each of the episodes for selection, but it also lists the intro mpeg which I dont want. anyway to get rid of this.

also what settings do I use if I want to put chapters on each of the tracks but not include the chapters in the menu? I tried to unselect them all but then when I played the dvd I could navigate between the tracks but not play them!

any help would be greatly appreciated.

[muskgrave]

For the chapters when you go into the menu settings just make sure it's set to "main menu ONLY" and not "main menu and track menu". Also make sure that the intro is set to firstplay option. You also might want to tell it to go back to main menu after it's done playing one of the tracks. I'm having trouble remembering where you set up the chapters in the program but I know its in one of the setup menu's...ah! When you are on the screen where you actually insert the video files and you can click on the settings of the individual files (not the track settings) and there is a tab in there for cutting and chapter selection. Just find the frame you want the new chapter to begin at..take note of the exact time..then go to the "add" button to the right where it shows the chapters.
Sorry if you already knew all that.

As far as keeping the intro from showing up in the main menu that is a toughie..i haven't dealt with that yet. Perhaps if you go back to the first screen and go to the track settings you can specify that it is an intro and should not be included..i'd be interested to see how that is done or if it can't be done due to the limitations of the program...

dlv