Minimum and maximum allowed bitrate for DVD?

[W_Eagle]

What are the minimum and maximum allowed bitrate for DVD?

[deh707]

nine thousand eight hundred is the max i think

[adam]

9800kbits is the max for video only. The total max bitrate allowed is 10.08Mbits and that includes audio, subtitles, and some multiplexing overhead.

[W_Eagle]

What's the minimum bitrate, if any?

[johns0]

The minimum is what ever you think you can handle without gagging,usually anything lower than 4000kbps cbr will start looking really crappy.

[adam]

There is no minimum required, you can go as low as you want. 4000kbits is about 3500kbits too high for a minimum. A scene change which is all black does not need 4000kbits. It would just waste bits which could be much better used elsewhere. Using a higher minimum actually decreases quality. I guess maybe you were talking about the lowest average bitrate you would use, but that's different.

I suggest always using a min bitrate of 0, which is basically automatic.

[W_Eagle]

I guess maybe you were talking about the lowest average bitrate you would use, but that's different.

I suggest always using a min bitrate of 0, which is basically automatic.

Thank you and all others for your replies. I didn't mean lowest average, I meant lowest minimum. Your reply, to set the minimum to 0, did help.

[SatStorm]

There is no minimum bitrate for DVD.
In praxis, some few olders and really cheap new DVD standalones, don't like lower bitrates , but this is not a DVD thing, is a fault of the standalones. On those rare case and depending the standalone, you have to rise the min. bitrate to 400, 600 or 1150kb/s

But: There is something to consider when you encode with TMPGenc about the minimum bitrate.

W_Eagle you already read about it in other post, I also post the topic link here for the rest readers: https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=205539&highlight=

[W_Eagle]

There is something to consider when you encode with TMPGenc about the minimum bitrate.

Out of TMPGenc, Mainconcept and CCE, which one can handle best low bitrates without pixelations or other noise?

[SatStorm]

If you mean low bitrate encodings then:
CCE has something called "mosquito" noise with 4 pass VBR and really low bitrates (>1400 for 1/2 D1 for example).
Mainconcept blures the picture and from a point and beyond the blocks are present (>1400 for 1/2 D1 for example)
It is more of a personal taste...

If you mean which encoder handle better the lower bitrate values in a typical encoding, both encoders do a better job TMPGenc 2 Pass VBR on this.
IF you use CQ mode on TMPGenc, then if you use ~1800 minimum, this strange problem with 2pass VBR disapears...

[adam]

CCE actually has a slider that lets you adjust whether to prioritize eliminating mosquito noise or contour noise (blurring). Even at ultra low bitrates you can eliminate all mosquito noise, but of course banding and blurring will be more prevalent.

For low bitrates I really don't see much difference between TMPGenc and CCE. Try using the low and ultra low bitrate matrices in CCE, they make a pretty big difference when using low bitrates. You can also manually enter these same settings in TMPGenc.

[SatStorm]

Hi Adam, nice to see you around

" You can also manually enter these same settings in TMPGenc "

What you mean here exactly?

[johns0]

I guess maybe you were talking about the lowest average bitrate you would use, but that's different.

I thought you meant lowest average also,4,000kbps would be the lowest average and 0 would be the lowest bitrate and of course set maximum to 8000kbps or around there.

[adam]

Hi Adam, nice to see you around

" You can also manually enter these same settings in TMPGenc "

What you mean here exactly?

I'm talking about the Quantize matrix settings. CCE has several different ones you can use, and you can take the values for them and manually enter them into TMPGenc on the Quantize Matrix tab if you want . It helps take the edge off of low bitrate encodes.

Good to see you too.

[SatStorm]

Oh, yes...
The plural of "matrix" in english is "matrices"...
How could I know....

I done that some years ago (copy the matrix to TMPGenc), when Kwag was testing his kvcd etc templates. To tell you the true I did see some "improvement" (which is more of a personal taste), but way behind the quality of CCE SP.

Maybe it is a time for new run tests, since today with have tmpgenc plus..

[W_Eagle]

If you mean low bitrate encodings then:
CCE has something called "mosquito" noise with 4 pass VBR and really low bitrates (>1400 for 1/2 D1 for example).
Mainconcept blures the picture and from a point and beyond the blocks are present (>1400 for 1/2 D1 for example)

Do you mean >1400 Average?
Does the "mosquito" noise and blocks seen on 29" TV, or only on bigger ones?

IF you use CQ mode on TMPGenc, then if you use ~1800 minimum, this strange problem with 2pass VBR disapears...

CQ 1800 minimum -- is it average lower bitrate than VBR average 1400? Or did you mean in 2 pass 1400 minimum?

[SatStorm]

- Do you mean >1400 Average?
Yes. Believe it or not some people go that low when using CCE and 4 pass VBR

- CQ 1800 minimum -- is it average lower bitrate than VBR average 1400? Or did you mean in 2 pass 1400 minimum?

When you encode with example: 1800 min 3000 average and 6000 maximum, you have this "problem" with TMPGenc (this is a 2 Pass VBR encoding)
If you encode with CQ mode and set 1800 min and 6000 maximum @65%(default), you don't have this "problem"

So: CQ does better job in half time. Also, on most cases, CQ @ default (65%) gonna be equal in quality and smaller the 2 Pass VBR encoding with the 3000 average.

Why you don't run some tests to see those things yourself? My opinion could be wrong you know. Don't get it for grunted!

[W_Eagle]

Why you don't run some tests to see those things yourself? My opinion could be wrong you know. Don't get it for grunted!

This question should be addressed to my employer and my wife -- both taking most of my waking time
I don't take anything for granted, only, reading others experience saves me time, enables me to focus on the right experiments.

[Schmendrick]

If you are satisfied with VCD picture quality and you really want to squeeze as much time on a DVD as possible, then you could encode in MPEG1 with 352x240-NTSC- or 352x288-Pal-resolution and be sure to encode the audio to 48000 Hz 192 kbit/s you could put up to 7 hours on a DVD. The picture of course only has VCD-quality, but if you are only backing up old VHS-tapes the original quaility might not be much better.
Also if the material already is present as VCD you only need to resample the audio-tracks to 48000 Hz MPEG-Audio and the quality on the DVD is not worse than the original VCDs, you just save exchanging the discs.

CU

Schmendrick

[dwiesel]

Hey everyone...I am a new user, but have been deeply submerged in TMPGenc for the last few weeks. I'm done my share of research and testing and I've yet to get a definitive answer: for a DVD, what are the best bitrate settings in TMPGenc? I've done test after test, but the combinatorics involved in all the combined settings is driving me crazy and I'm losing it.

I'm aware that a higher bitrate yields the highest quality, but what does setting the "average bitrate" actually do in relation to the "highest bitrate"? I would think that setting just the highest would take care of any bitrate requirements (i.e. what would setting highest bitrate to 8000 and average bitrate to 1000 do?). I would also think setting the minimum to 0 would work, but there's been discussion there as well that setting this may be necessary.

The bottom line is, I want the absolute highest quality image regardless of space/time limitations. Don't even get me started on I/P/B frames, I've got to find another thread/forum for that.

Any help is greatly appreciated...I've been searching the internet quite a bit, I'm hoping this site has more absolutes....thanks!

Dave

[Gazorgan]

Don't bother with MPEG1 encoding, it's a waste of bits. You can use the same resolution in MPEG2, and get a superior encode (as in MPEG2 is superior is performance and size to MPEG1). Check out the DVD standards on the left for allowable resolutions and bitrates.

[dwiesel]

I agree...with all the research and testing some of us have had to do in our search for the ultimate MPG, why waste it on MPEG-1?