Capture Issues!

[miochza]

I have a Pc Chips PCI Capture Card... and I am trying to convert my old 8mm movies. However, the light areas in my captures from my camera are way too light... it seems like bleeding, since even darkening it or changing the contrast doesnt help much. I tried hooking my camcorder up to my VCR... it looked terrible. My camcorder is like 20 years old... is this macrovision?
Look at this example:

[Tommyknocker]

When was the last time you had it cleaned?

[miochza]

Lol you are right about one thing, it hasn't been cleaned in years. However, the picture is fine hooking in the line in of the TV, so i dont think it would be that...

[Tommyknocker]

I would still clean it before trying anything else. The TV picture with its lower resolution may not be avle to pick up the bleeding as well.

[non-linear]

I get a similar problem with my ATI AIW Radeon setup. Basically, your input levels are too hot. From my experience, capture cards clip the video levels at 100 IRE, so anything above that will get clipped, and detail will be lost.

You need to lower the brightness levels going into the capture card. If you have a brightness control somewhere on your software, then you should be able to lower the levels so that they don't capture too hot. Once it's captured though, the detail is gone, so lowering your levels won't help.

[miochza]

Hmm... sounds interesting. I have a brightness control in WinDVR 3. But I thought that i've tried lowering the capture brightness etc... But I will try it nonetheless. Would the difference show up in the preview or would I have to wait for it to be recorded... I wish I could try lowering the brightness of thwe camera, but I can't.

[bottle-necked]

I would try to adjust the controls until my preview window looked right, then make a test DVD and see what that looked like on my TV.

Good luck.

[miochza]

Yea, thanks for your help guys, but this is Very frustrating. I've tried changing brightness, contrast, sharpness, on preview and onthe card, nothing has looked right. I have tried recording to a VHS then recording to the card via VCR, but that didn't work either. It just doesnt make any sense. I hooked up my Xbox to the A/V input in the card, no bleeding. It just doesn't want me to get this working. I have even tried RF in, and get lower quality AND still bleeding. Its like an incompatibility with anything the old camera has ever recorded. I even burned it to a DVD, and played it on my TV, same thing as it looks like on my monitor. I am almost ready to give up. There is nothing else I can think of to do.

[geek rock]

there are small hardware devices that you connect between your capture card and original source that enable you to change some contrast, colour, brightness, etc settings. maybe you could try one of these?

[garbman1]

I am no expert but . . . I seem to remember reading about different formats 4.1.1, 4.2.2, 4.4.4. I do not understand much about how they do what they do but it seems that different codecs process the chroma in different ways. I feel like your issue is likely an issue with your capture codec and /or your video format 4.2.2 ect. I looked around a little and found this link, http://www.adamwilt.com/DV-FAQ-tech.html#colorSampling, that gives a lot of very tech. info about this. Unless you are much more techie than me, I do not think you will find a solution at the site. What you will see though, if you go there, is a hint as to where to start looking for your solution. Good Luck!

[miochza]

Those formats are for Dv tho.... my 20 year old camera is analog.

[miochza]

Maybe my card just sucks. I thought a 9-bit video decoder would be good enough, but I guess not....

[FulciLives]

@miochza

If I am reading what you wrote correctly it sounds like your camcorder footage looks good if you hook it up directly to the TV but if you hook it up to your TV through the VCR then it looks bad and it also looks bad when you capture it (with camcorder hooked directly up to your cpature card)?

This that what you are saying?

I can't imagine for the life of me why it would look substantially different hooked up to the TV direct VS hooked up to the TV via the VCR

If you are using composite video either way then it should really look about the same. However if your VCR is hooked up to your TV with a RF coax cable then yeah it would look worse but if you VCR is hooked up with composite video then it should look the same as hooking the camcorder up directly to the TV via composite video.

One thing you might not realize ... and I think this might apply more to NTSC than PAL ... but captured NTSC video tends to not "look right" on a computer screen because a computer screen doesn't function the same as a NTSC TV in regard to various "levels" so it is not uncommon for footage to look "bad" on your computer monitor but then look A-OK once burned to a DVD and played back on a stand alone DVD player hooked up to a normal NTSC TV.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[vhelp]

This looks to me (or reminds me of) color washout.

This will sometimes happen with incorrect capture card drivers and/or
graphics card drivers.

Also, if you have any external boxes like boosters or amplifiers, this will
cause color washout too. Some cards will pass this w/out issue, but usually
they don't. I had a similar issue w/ my advc-100 when I had a RS 4 port
amplifier and my advc-100 was just too color washout looking (or in your
case, bright like your pic)

Sometimes, its just a matter of switching your connections around too.
If you are in Scart area (PAL) that is a scart that can sometimes case this
too, if not properly connected.

I don't know what else there is to say at this time. I'm pretty pooped out
too, from my own set of nonsense.

-vhelp

[miochza]

If I am reading what you wrote correctly it sounds like your camcorder footage looks good if you hook it up directly to the TV but if you hook it up to your TV through the VCR then it looks bad and it also looks bad when you capture it (with camcorder hooked directly up to your cpature card)?

Yep, thats exactly what im saying. you know how in that pic it is obnoxiously bright? Well with it hooked up thru a VCR, there is more wite than there is color...

Also, if you have any external boxes like boosters or amplifiers, this will
cause color washout too. Some cards will pass this w/out issue, but usually
they don't. I had a similar issue w/ my advc-100 when I had a RS 4 port
amplifier and my advc-100 was just too color washout looking (or in your
case, bright like your pic)

I don't have any external boxes connected up. Just Camera-> Adapter for Output on the Camera -> Capture card. Tried changing the cables.

[vhelp]

miochza,

Then, its more likely that your CAM has a poor output circuitry - - looks fine
on your TV when directly connected, but once signal sent through your
capture card, that is when you find your poor quality.

I've often heard how TV circuitry can hide many sins through direct connect.
But, hook up a capture card, and... ...

My canon-zr10 is like this. The DV (when firewired to hd) is color washout,
but when I use my direct connect to my tv, its fine. Turns out that my
ZR10's (DV) curcuirty is to blaim.

But last advice, is try try the tape in another camcorder (if that is at all possible)

-vhelp

[miochza]

Hmm.. Are any cheaper new camcorders able to play old 8 mm tapes?

[garbman1]

Yes they are, but the greater point is that your problem may be related to the way your codec processes the analog input. Just something to look at. I have seen settings on some software that allows chroma adjustment. I also seem to recall that video cameras can record more information than can be displayed on a TV screen. Somewhere I have seen presets based on the desired display type TV, computer monitor, ect.

[miochza]

Chroma? Is that like Brightness, Contast etc... or something different because the programs I have already have those adjustments...

[bottle-necked]

Since everyone is giving their openion of what they think is wrong I'll give mine too.

I think the camera is putting out too much current for the capture card overloading it's input circuit.

Good luck.

[FulciLives]

Here is a thought ...

All of the SONY Digital8 camcorders can also play back 8mm and Hi8 video tapes. Also most of the Digital8 cams if not all of them can also convert the 8mm/Hi8 tapes to DV video for import to a computer using the FireWire port.

Of course you are looking at around $500 I think for the cheapest one ... maybe $400 but I'm not sure if that model does the DV conversion although it CAN play back 8mm/Hi8 tapes.

But if you are going to get a Digital8 cam you want to make sure you get a model that will not only play back 8mm/Hi8 tapes but can also do the DV conversion.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[BrainStorm69]

there are small hardware devices that you connect between your capture card and original source that enable you to change some contrast, colour, brightness, etc settings. maybe you could try one of these?

@miochza - have you thought about a SIMA SCC Color Corrector or an AVT-8710? Both have adjustments for brightness, contract, etc. Cheaper than than a new camcorder, and might be useful in future capturing.

[miochza]

The SIMA looks cheap enough that I amy buy it... But this is soo weird. Look how good last nights episode of SNL looks:

[BrainStorm69]

It doesn't look like your capture card has any problems with capturing if the source is good.

[racerxnet]

Are you sure it is not the AGC causing the situation?

[miochza]

AGC? What is that... I dont think I have an AGC.

[lordsmurf]

It depends on your card. It has been determined that the BT/CX cards have an AGC in them.

I bet a SIMA SED-CM would fix your problem, at only $40. I've seen this before.

[Kevin abq]

I had the same problem with captures taken off a Sony VCR. They were as bad as your example. It turned out that the VCR's "Adaptive Picture Control" was turned on. That tries to make the picture the most pleasing to the eye. It wreaked havoc on my capture box, regardless of where I had the brightness, hue or contrast set. Since disabling it it has been fine. Just something else for you to check.

[miochza]

Thanks for everyones input. You guys were a real help. The other day, I'm like, what the heck, I'll try the RF coonnector again, since I barely paid attention to the quality, since I thought it looked the same. However, I had an idea this time, to hook it up to my TV and Computer at the same time using an RF splitter to have a side-by-side comparison. And the quality looked almost the same, except a small amount of bleeding. So I was finally able to capture all my home movies at a desirable quality. I am encoding them now to burn to DVD+Rs. But here's where I show my "Newbism" again. I thought I would be able to fit like 3 120 minutes files on 1 DVD just because of the age of my Camcorder. How stupid is that. After thinking it over, I thought to myself 120 minutes of video is 120 minutes of video to a computer regardless of the source. So, looks like I will have more DVD's than I expected. So the LAST hurdle I will have is burning it so my Apex 703 will recognize it. All my SVCDs on that work, but I tried a test DVD, and it ran sometimes, othertimes it showed "blocks" like the picture was piecing apart like a puzzle. Anyways, thak you again for your help. I now must cross my fingers that my Apex will be agreeable. I hate wasting DVD+Rs since they aren't NEARLY as cheap as CD-Rs.Adios.

-Alex

[Kevin abq]

Alex,
Glad you've got a solution. Don't apologize for "newbism". We've all been there and we've all wished we had asked more questions. We've also all said "If I had a dollar for every time I've assumed the problem was something complicated and the problem turned out to be really simple ..."
Good luck.