Pioneer DVR-210-S initial impressions

[curtw]

As reported in another thread, the DVR-210 appears to be functionally identical to the DVR-310. It still has a metal enclosure, so it's pretty solid. Appearance-wise, it's less "streamlined" looking than the 310, but who cares? I've just spent a week playing with it, and have burned ~10 DVD's with no coasters.

First, the objective report. Here are some additions to fill out the missing data on the 310-S for the "sticky" Excel spreadsheet.

1. IEEE 1394 transfer to/from PC: Works great on my Mac. iMovie detects the DVR-210 as a camcorder, and reports "no tape." When I hit the iMovie import/export buttons, it makes a statement to the effect of "Instead of a camcorder, you must actually be a DV capture device. Click <OK> to begin video transfer." And then it transfers flawlessly.

Addition to the DVR-310 note tab concerning DV import: Both the owner's manual and the notes in the spreadsheet report that "The source signal must be DVC-SD format," but this is not necessarily so. I have a Sony Digital 8 camcorder, and as long as the camcorder is set to 16-Bit audio, the DVR-210 will digitally transfer my *really* old analog 8 mm videotapes, or my old DV tapes that I recorded in 12-Bit audio before I knew that DVD's wanted 16-Bit. It may be that the camcorder is doing the conversion on the fly, but it has not been an issue at all.

I used a 6-pin to 4-pin Firewire cable for all transfers to and from the Mac. For camcorder-to-210 dubs (when both devices are 4-pin), I added the 6-pin to 4-pin adapter that came with my iPod. No dropped signals.

2. 'Shorten' feature: contrary to the report in the spreadsheet, you can do this in -VR mode.

Confirmed compatible media: Memorex 2X DVD-RW, Fuji 1X DVD-R, CompUSA 1X DVD-R.
Confirmed incompatible media: None yet.

Now, on to my subjective impressions.

MPEG quality: anything up to 2-hour mode ("standard play" recording speed) looks just as good as the input source. Video captured from an analog or DV source still looks pretty good in 4-hour mode, but sources that have been subjected to a *second* round of MPEG compression (output from Dish Network, DirecTV, etc. receivers) really start to suffer from digital artifacting. Black level retention is excellent (I tested letterboxed films from DV, LaserDisc and satellite, using 1394, S-Video and composite inputs). Encoding quality is at least as good as that of iDVD (my only reference point, as I've never used a hardware recorder before). The really great feature is being able to manually select the quality at one of 32 levels (each one roughly corresponding to a 10-minute increment in recording time, between 1 and 6 hours)

Graphical menus in a finalized DVD-Video: 9. There are three that hold three title thumbnails each (with themes of "Western," "Scrapbook" and "Sci-Fi"), three that hold four thumbnails each (in solid colors), and three that hold six thumbnails each (in three, different, colors). You get as many of these thumbnail screens as it takes to accommodate all of your titles.

Chase play: Works perfectly! My only problem resulted from operator error (confusion with the remote). Having the chase play feature means that there are two "Stop" buttons on the remote; one for recording and the other for playback. I've already pressed the wrong button once. I'm sure it won't happen again.

Macrovision: I was able to create perfect back-ups of my Macrovisioned VHS tapes using an el-cheapo MCM Electronics video stabilizer (--I don't work there, I'm just a satisfied customer).

Automatic recording from a satellite tuner: this is the one feature that I had a problem with. I followed the directions, but as soon as I set the recorder into standby mode, it immediately started up again and began recording, even with my DishNetwork receiver turned off. I don't know if this is a glitch in the recorder, or a problem with the satellite receiver (perhaps it sends out S-Video pulses even when it's allegedly 'off?'). More testing to come...

If there are any other questions from the potential user community out there, just fire them off in a follow-up in this thread, and I'll try to answer (unless it's about the VCRPlus+ features. I don't want to bother, because I won't be using the analog coax input). There were discussions about providing a sample clip to somebody--Has anybody chosen a reference clip? If you tell me a reference for something that's on all of the time (for example, the "Buffy" opening credits), I'll snag a 30-second segment, copy it to a CD-R, and send it by snail mail).

Thanks!

[curtw]

whoops.

[j_b]

Thanks for the info. I like the fact that the 310 will allow me to set the automatic chapter markers to none ,then press the chapter marker on the remote when I want to, creating my own points> This can be done on the fly, while recording, which the panasonics cannot. Can the 210 allow me to do this?

[curtw]

Thanks for the info. I like the fact that the 310 will allow me to set the automatic chapter markers to none ,then press the chapter marker on the remote when I want to, creating my own points> This can be done on the fly, while recording, which the panasonics cannot. Can the 210 allow me to do this?

The manual says you can only do this in -VR mode, not in -Video. The neat thing is that you can do it while recording, OR in playback. And the playback can be real-time, slo-mo, or even paused (if you need to hit one specific frame).

I will try it while recording in -Video mode, but I don't have high expectations.

[sullen]

The one function I really don't quite understand is the Firewire transfer capabilities. I know this recorder is bi-directional, but am unclear about what exactly is going on when "transferring" to/from the PC or Mac. When you are going from the recorder to the computer are you actually transferring the DVD to the computer, like you were ripping it? You decribe this process, but I learn slooowly sometimes.

Thanks for the quick review. Good job on testing the features and giving us a good idea of the capabilities of this machine. There is another post about the quality of VHS transfers being poor with this machine. You didn't mention doing any VHS transfers, a test of this would be good to include in your review.

[donpedro]

The one function I really don't quite understand is the Firewire transfer capabilities. I know this recorder is bi-directional, but am unclear about what exactly is going on when "transferring" to/from the PC or Mac. When you are going from the recorder to the computer are you actually transferring the DVD to the computer, like you were ripping it? You decribe this process, but I learn slooowly sometimes.

From PC->Recorder
- you should have DV-AVI file on PC
- by conecting FireWire cable and sending it to DVD Recorder you are "moving DV-AVI data stream" that is representing video through FireWire cable.
- inside DVD Recorder it encodes/converts to MPEG2 and records it to DVD

From DVD Recorder->PC
- MPEG2 video stream (while playing) is converted to DV-AVI format
- and sent trough FireWire to PC
- where is captured (stored) in DV-AVI format

[curtw]

... There is another post about the quality of VHS transfers being poor with this machine. You didn't mention doing any VHS transfers, a test of this would be good to include in your review.

VHS has worked great for me, and I've only used the composite video input for my tapes. In 2-hour mode, everything looks just as good as the originals. And like I wrote, above, this is with both 'straight-through' recordings, and with a video stabilizer in line to defeat the Macrovision. I did have one, 10-year-old tape (from cable) of a black and white movie that has more snow now, but that could be a result of almost anything (I'd assume that the fact I'm not playing it back on the original recording deck might have introduced some alignment problems).

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[sullen]

Much thanks for the answers! Sounds like a winner to me. If only money would fall out of the sky into my lap right about now...

[curtw]

If only money would fall out of the sky into my lap right about now...

I got mine for only $220 on eBay. eBay might not be your cup of tea, but I couldn't pass it up at that price. There still seem to be plenty of them still around. I have no idea how so many have ended up in this ("new, but open box") condition.

It was $30 cheaper than the Lite-On 5001 (assuming you get the CompUSA rebate), and adds the chase play capabilities of -RW, and direct computer interface. I'm a happy customer. The seller was so-so (obviously a dealer; used a drop shipper, and not even a hint of a personal touch in his e-mails), but if you want his user id, PM me. Don't want to spam this board.

[bobinga]

Just recieved my 210 and am trying to experiment with all it's funtions
Manual is labeled 210 and 310 so I assume as others that they are identical.

I bought this on ebay for $250 including shipping. Package had been opened or it was a store model, but appeared in perfect condition. Batteries were installed in remote, all cabels were there.

I notice that the color is washed out somewhat from the original tV signal.
I do not have digital signal. I have tried the RCA connections as well as SVideo connection with same results. Have experimented with adjusting black level and other adjustments and still see no difference.

I probably can compensate by adjusting color on TV, 36 inch RCA.

Any suggestions

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[Varta]

I notice that the color is washed out somewhat from the original tV signal.
I do not have digital signal. I have tried the RCA connections as well as SVideo connection with same results. Have experimented with adjusting black level and other adjustments and still see no difference.

Assuming my DVR 5100 (PAL) has the same circuity as your 210 except for the hard drive, let me tell you the following:

1. I've set the black level for the external input to the maximum value, because otherwise the picture would "drown" in black (probably due to my external signal converter). Now picture is ok.

2. I've played with the color level setting and do see a difference.

3. Toggeling DNR on/off doesn't seem to make a difference.

[Varta]

It is a sad fact that these models have cheap and cheerful analogue to digital stages that have levels all over the place. It has ruined what would otherwise be an excellent recorder, just so Pioneer can save a few dollars.

Philip, I disagree with your statement that Pioneer has "ruined" the recorder. While it is annoying to see that the composite color separation (which is a technique known since the beginning of color TV) is rather bad, it's apparent only with certain patterns. Usually you won't see it with regular film scenes.
And yes, the tuner picture is a little bit blurred and even a bit more blurred after recording. But this is in the same range as when comparing the same program received via analogue cable TV versus digital (digital is a bit more blurred but with less noise).

I agree that recorder could have been better if Pioneer were a bit more careful here and it certainly wouldn't have cost a fortune on top. But for practical purposes (i.e. watching a recorded program) the picture is ok. At least for me, depends what you're expecting.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[bobinga]

I am now in the process of transferring vhs home movies to the 210 using vr mode dvrw. Am satisfied with results thus far. The motion menues are kind of kool. Haven't tried any editing.

Tried chasing play last nite, and could not get to work, Perhaps the Sony DVD-RW is not 2x. I assumed it was, but it is not marked on container, this was a 5 pack from CompUSA and was the least expensive they had.
They were out of the memorex that were on sale.

Interesting. My forst dvd-r is a coaster. Worked fine until finalized. Bought from Meritline in a sample pack . DVD Identifier shows it as a MXL RGO1 speed 1X - (2x).

Neither my DVD rom nor, my Nec 1300a will play it, Windows properties says it is blank, and it won't play in the Pioneer210.

Guess I'll try to find something worth recording and try another DVD-r

[Varta]

@Philip
I agree that Pioneer unneccessarily degraded the picture quality by either choosing a bad color separator chip (or not setting it up properly for PAL by the firmware) and also not permitting to turn off DNR. No excuse for that.

I also notice that people seem to have different sensibility regarding artefacts in the picture, i.e. you seem to be more sensitive than I am. For me it takes more to ruin a film.

Taking this into account I can no longer disagree with your statements. The pioneer isn't the right choice for people with higher picture quality demands because Pioneer screwed that part up. And they did that with a unit whose price would have allowed for a better quality.

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[TonyT]

Hello fourm members..............I recieved my 210 thru ebay for $269 (a Costco store return). The seller assured me all units are checked out and include the man. 1 yr warranty plus the promise to resolve any problems with exchange or refund if the unit doesn't perform as advertised.

Intitial setup was simple, mine runs thru a Yamaha A/V and my sources are 2 digital satellite sevices(DTV and Starchoice). First off, I attempted playing a Clapton concert DVD, performed great with playback. Using brand new dvd-rw disc I attempted one touch record, then timer record. This 1st disc never recorded more than 90 sec, I even intitialized in both formats and tried at least 5 other times(a bad disc??). The 2nd disc attempt worked great on one touch, then a timer recording also completed (15 min length). That night I attempted a 2 hr timer recording, the next day I notice that it completed 5 diferent chapters of the show with lengths of 15 min, 2 min, 90 secs, 32 sec and 18 seconds. The show didn't completely record. After going over the manuals instructions for recording agian, I'm only succesfull with one touch record, and 50/50 success making complete timer recordings. I have recorded in both VR and Video, copied a Handicam source tape, I also 'finalized' 20 minutes worth of recording (@ 4 min, even though I got a 'can't complete' message). I viewed the finalized version on my Denon player downstairs thru my 36" XBR ....some slight color drop out and not the exact detail/sharpness, but I was happy with what I saw. I have used 4 other new disc to record after the intial one failed.

I've contacted the seller, he says to keep him informed as I'll spend this 1st week attempting all functions and scenario's with this recorder. My question to the members here - is everyone having success making timer recordings?? I've used 'easy timer' and 'timer rec' with my attempts. If needed, I'll ask for a return or refund. Then again I don't want to go thru the same problems with another machine if programming flaws are a charcteristic of this model. The price, warranty and brand attracted me to buy. Any feedback is appreciated.

Thanks...Tony (St Louis)

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[TonyT]

Thanks for the response........

I did say that I have used 4 different 'new' disc at different times. Either DirectTV or Starchoice satellite were the sources, and once a camcorder copy.

I just intitialized a disc for VIDEO record...... I also set a 5 min timer @ FINE(DirectTV), then a 5 min timer @ SP(Starchoice), and finally another DirectTV timer for 15 min @ LP recording. I left at least one min between each record setting. I'm hoping the 3rd timer fits as well. As I understand it.....if the time remaining in a choosen record speed isn't available on disc, that timer will not record to the disc or show on the disc history(??).

THE RESULTS - all 3 times recorded, I finalized and checked playback on my Denon Player and a Samsung laptop/portable DVD player....good results also.

I'm currently recording another disc (VR mode) using one touch rec @ SP(DirectTV)........in 2 hours I'll see what happens. Thanks again.

Tony

[TonyT]

A follow up............

1st of all I need to clarify from the previous posting. MY RESULTS - I did achive all the record times at different record modes. BUT the 'finalized' message was "cannot complete this function'. I got that same message my previous 2 disc that I finalized in VIDEO mode and they DID play in other DVD players. This last one did not play.....I jumped the gun and assumed it would (sorry for that).

As for the one touch rec (VR) using SP with DirectTV as a source......it stopped after 45 secs and no content on the disc, a black screen. I tried it again, 7 seconds and no content. I switched to Starchoice as the source, FINE record, again....10 secs and the machine stops on its own. Three black boxes show in disc navigator for the results.

So far I'm 50/50 at completed functions using this machine. I'll give myself 'till the afternoon on Wed. for better results or advice that shows I'm obviously making mistakes programming the recorder. I'm thinking a bad machine. Responses are welcomed.

Tony

I'm using DVD-RW disc bought at Best Buy, "imation" brand. version 1.1 (4.7GB).

[FulciLives]

Much thanks for the answers! Sounds like a winner to me. If only money would fall out of the sky into my lap right about now...

LOL

I constantly dream about what I would do if I won MILLIONS of DOLLARS but guess what ... I never play the lotto!

So yeah ... I'm with you ... drop out of the sky baby! (looks up)

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[TonyT]

The fianal straw ???????????????

Forget bad disc I say, its the machine!!!!!!!!!


--My 1st 'finalized' disc in VIDEO mode that played fine on my Denon and the parents Samsung hours ago.................I put into the 210 once again, after 'read' I get the 'attempting to repair disc' message......finally saying 'cannot repair'....disc will not play. Try again once more, same result. I go downstairs and try the disc in the Denon player.............PERFECT, NO PROBLEM!!!!

My local Ultimate Electronics have had only 2 of the 310 models returned out of a few hundred sold since Thanksgiving. I believe I have a lemmon. I'll return to my seller His listing indicates that full refund on defective units isn't a problem. A brand new 310 or 210 instead of an open box 210 is the way to go.....................I say yes. Replies are welcomed.

Tony

[PhilipL]

Withdrawn

[TonyT]

I returned the player this morning, seller will refund the full amount. I called Pioneer on Monday, these 210's bought off Ebay ARE NOT covered by the manufacturer, only new models from authorized dealers. I asked about the 310's software update, weather there was one for the 210 as well, she says no - no details given.

The seller also offerd me another unit he just recieved, offering it to me once it is checked out to function properly. Since it only cost $9.75 to return the 1st one.......I may try his replacement recorder. I'll shop around until Friday for deals on the 310 (NEW), thats when I told seller I'd give him the answer for the replacement. The $269 price is nice, but only if the machine performs of course!!!

Phillip - I must be confused as to what you mean by "media" in your postings. I'm assuming you meant media source ( satellite, cable, etc..) that is used for the recorders input. Please clarify. I'll scroll thru the forum to get info on the 310 and 510 recorders as well. THANKS

Tony

[TonyT]

Phillip

After reading other posting subjects on the forum, I'm aware of what you call 'media' now (sorry for being a novice). I did mention earlier that my disc were Imation brand from BestBuy.

Two other postings in the 'DVD recorders/ DVD media that gives you problems' link mention that Imation are a crappy 'media' for recorders. It seems many recommend TDK. I'll continue to scroll the site for information. THANKS.

Tony

[TonyT]

To finalize.................I recieved full refund for my 'open box' ebay item (DVR-210). I bought a new DVR-310 from an authorized Pioneer dealer from NY state. With shipping the total was $418.....the $100 rebate will make it $318!!!! See Profeelvideo.com......very professional. The 210 model can be bought new from Costco online, $320 then add sales tax and shipping (NO rebate for the 210). I also bought JVC RW disc as my improved media source, no problems yet.

Thanks to all involved in the forum.......I've been learning!!

Tony

[K_cin_az]

does the 510 suffer from the same problems when it comes to video quality from composite sources?

[dukehtran]

HI,

Would this DVDR record video in MPEG2 format that you can play on your computer & other standard DVD player?

THANKS