New Sony TRV-460 Digital8 camcorder

[jimby452]

I see sony has a new Digital8 camcorder the TRV-460. Not sure if it is selling yet. It looks like it has all the same features as the TRV-350 but is priced at only $399 by Sony. I was looking to buy the TRV-350 to use to copy some old video tapes to DVD. Does anyone know if the TRV-460 would be as good or better then the older TRV-350? I have seen the TRV-350 in the $399 range , so I'm not sure witch one to purchace.

[Bstansbury]

Search through some of the Camera stores on the WEB. One of the nice things they do (sometimes) is point you to a very detailed set of specifications for the camera. I have a TRV-740 which was a great camera 1+ year ago. Things to look for are I/O's like composite (RCA), S-video, USB, Firewire. Then look at CCD pixel size ( image quality). Forget the digital Zoom, you'll never use it. Look for low like functions.

You should also be influenced by what kind of camera you had before. If you had 8 mm you can use those in the new Digital 8 cameras and they will be auto converted to Digital on transfer to your PC.

Or you could save all the trouble of looking and just buy the new TRV-950 for $2000. That should be good enough.

[jimby452]

Actually I have an old Panasonic VHS-C camcorder the I was looking to replace. But my main goal is to convert my old analog tapes to didital. Instead of spending $200 to $300 for a device to capture with, that would probably sit idle after I copy my old tapes, I could spend another hundred or two and get a decent quality Digicam. From what I have read, the sony TRV-350 has a built in TBC and noise filter. But I am not sure if it's used in pass through mode. I have not found any information on the TRV-460 concerning a TBC or noise filter. I'll have to keep looking.

[Brainiac]

Hi

Just purchased the TRV460 yesterday at Best But for $399.99. But I am returning it today because it does not have a mic input jack - the online description does not make that very clear. It does have a cool touch screen though.

It does do TBC and DNR (Digital Noise Reduction) - don't know if it is used in pass through mode though. Also be aware that the tapes load from the bottom - a problem if you are going to use a tripod and have to change tapes because you may have to take the camera off the tripod to do so. The TRV350 is also a bottom loader I believe, but the mic input jack is more important for my needs.

Circuit City online has the TRV350 listed for $499.00 plus $100.00 in savings, bringing the total price to $399.99. It also comes with a free tripod and carry bag. The online site did not have any available, but I plan to visit the local store to purchase it.

Brainiac

[procrastination]

I own the 350 and its a GREAT cam, but its going out of program. Here is the interesting part. It seems that the 460 is replacing it but it does not have a mic input (as someone stated earlier)

Strange to say the least.

later

PRO

[Bstansbury]

For Brainiac; He said;

Just purchased the TRV460 yesterday at Best But for $399.99. But I am returning it today because it does not have a mic input jack - the online description does not make that very clear. It does have a cool touch screen though.

If you haven't taken it back yet, you could look through the manual and add a post to this thread and tell "Jimby" If it can do "Pass Through"

Look at about page 90 for "Capturing images from an Analog Video Unit to your Computer,...---- Signal Convert Function. Look in the index for Signal Convert Function.

It has been my experience that if the camera has IN/OUT functions for the following I/O ports,... Composite (RCA jack), Firewire(iLink), S-video, and/or USB,... the camera probably supports Digital "on the Fly" signal conversion. It is the neatest thing since canned beer.

Another very important function about Digital Cameras is the way they capture internally the signal. The world has been analog forever, and analog signals, no matter where they are, inside chips, on a buss circuit, in a coax cable, etc,... they are suspeptable to noise. Once it gets into the signal, you can't get it out without tossing out some of the signal. For Video in todays world, we need to compress it to MPEG and Compressing to MPEG is terrible with noise. MPEG by it's nature is looking for "Changes from one frame to the next"... It's the changes that get all the encoding work. Things that look the same from the previous frame are just copied. Therefore, since noise pops ups as something new in a frame, it gets encoded as "New and good information".. Ain't that great.

In the digital cameras, the image is detected in the CCD's and inside the first chip it get quantitized digitally and then compressed 5:1 into DV .avi signal. The point is it never spends anytime in the analog domain and therefore is not suseptable to noise. When I transfer in DV format to my PC, I never loose one byte,... and a typical 1 hour tape is about 10 GB. Not bad,...

For your old VHS-C tapes,... you could either transfer them to tape or to your computer in Digital format. Once on the computer you can make some pretty good SVCD's out of them and make them look lilke DVD's. Sure they look like home movies, but if you add the rigth effects and some music, and a little voice over narration, they will look pretty good to your family. I've made several and sent them to all my daughters to play on their DVD units.[/quote]

[Brainiac]

Hi

I have already returned the camera (and got the 15% restocking fee sting) and purchased the TRV-350 at Circuit City.

Brainiac

[procrastination]

I will be getting my hands on a 460 either this week or next. I will be sure to post a full review right here in this thread.

So far, from my experimentation I can say that I will always love my 350, and I can hardly imagine why Sony would have removed the mic jack (possibly one of the most important features the cam offers)

late

PRO

[Greg12]

I think im gonna buy this camera.

[VideoTechMan]

I can settle the questions on this issue.

Over this past weekend I just bought the TRV-350 camera. I did see the 460 model at CC also, and the 460 was priced for $399. The 350, I found after purchasing it was $350 and still included the tripod and carrying bag. Nice deal I got on it!

Now for the tech questions on the camera, yes the camera CAN do a passthrough from the analog sources to digital on your computer (I read my manuals in detail lol). I mainly bought the camera to do alot of the Hi-8 conversions to DV as well as play back the few D8 tapes I have. For the other stuff though like my VHS and video game sources I might plan to get the Canopus ADVC-100 for that. At least this way it will take the burden from my professional Panasonic AG-DV2000 deck for all the analog conversions.....not to mention the number of tapes I would need

Get the TRV-350 model. It does pretty much the same thing the 460 does, with the addition of the mic jack. And since they are getting replaced, you may be able to get a better deal on it as well price wise.

VTM

[awhitney]

Now will the sony trv350 transfer 8mm tape via firewire was well?

Also, I have an old 8mm camera with just a composite output only, but will transferring the video from the trv350 via firewire improve the quality of my 8mm tapes compared to capturing by composite?

[Greg12]

I would not buy a 350 simply because it's being replaced. I bought a Hitachi camera that was a discontinued model and i found it hard to find a super big battery for it.

[Bstansbury]

Awhitney,... Nothing will every "Improve the Quality" of your 8 mm tapes. The only thing you can do is limit the additional loss of quality and what the pass through does is to convert the analog signal as the tape is played in the DV camcorder to a digital signal in the chips in the camera. Then it is transferred to your PC via firewire. Once it is converted to Digital in the Camera, there will be no further loss of quality (or data).

On the other hand, if the old camera reads the analog signal and processes it in the camera, then converts it to TV signal (NTSC) format, there is loss of signal right there. Then as analog passes through cables to some Analog capture card, ATI, Pinacle, etc., there is additional loss of quality, not to mention the loss of data in Capture and on card conversions. Every chip, pin, connector, card, cable, driver, receiver, etc, can inject noise and that is "Loss of Quality". The point is,... the sooner you can get to digital format the better off you are.

With my Sony TRV-740 I no longer capture analog on my PC, even though I have avery good ATI all in Wonder card. I push everything through the circuitry in my camera and convert it to Digital Video there and transfer all of it by firewire. What a waste of time to do it any other way. Ask as many people as you want,... how many hour have they wasted capturing (or trying to Capture) analog inputs to any capture card. It's enough to drive you crasy. With my camera and the VideoStudio software,... I don't need any other tools,.... and doing it the old way seems like very crude tools now.

[lordmax]

With my Sony TRV-740 I no longer capture analog on my PC, even though I have avery good ATI all in Wonder card. I push everything through the circuitry in my camera and convert it to Digital Video there and transfer all of it by firewire.

The above statement is capable via the pass thru function you mentioned earlier?

Also, I noticed that it looks like the camera does not come with a firewire cable. Can anybody cooberate?

If not, I have a firewire cable already but know that there are variations on the connectors, on these cables. Is the necessary cable fairly standard and what are the chances that the one I have will work?

I only ask because at Sony the retail on the cable was $79.00 I think, thats rediculous. Of course that's retail.

Another question, The camera is USB capable too, I assume USB 2.0. It comes with the USB cable I think. Can I push digital quality video through the USB cable making the Firewire cable purchase unneccesary or do I still need Firewire?

Thanks in advance.

[Bstansbury]

Awhitney,... My Sony came with a USB cable and a Composite RCA video cable and an S-Video cable. I went to my local electronics store and got a 10' firewire for about $15. Again, the camera has Input/Output ports for all of the above.

I've just finished my first 2 hour DVD video production and it turned out terrific. I used about 2 hour of DV from my camcorder that I shot at Pebble beach playing golf there, plus about 50 still shots from my Digital Camera, plus I downloaded about 4 hours of Satallite video of Pebble Beach PGA tournament. I edited down all of this to 2 hours of DV, added background music, voice over, special effects, fade in/out, produced an Introduction, Title page, Credits, and an ending, and finally burned a DVD. The quality of the entire project was great. Ulead VideoStudio has all the tools, and it came with Cool3D software that I used to produce 3D Introductions, Titles, etc. This was a present to one of my family and they were blown away. No one could figure out how I did it all, with just a little camera.

I has been a lot of work,...especially the editing,... but it was well worth the effort. Now that I some experience, the next one will be 10x easier.

Sorry for the long winded answer,... just so happy about this I had to tell someone.

[remelad]

I just bought the TRV-460 at Circuit City for $359. Also bought the I.Link cable to transfer to my computer to burn DVD's. We'll see how it works out.

As far as the camcorder, I love it!! The touch screen is awesome!!!

[Greg12]

I love this camera so much. It has a really good picture, good sound, good design, long battery life, A-D pass through, dv in, plays my old 8mm tapes.

I really recomind this camera.

My only complaint is the still camera can only do like 320 pixels.

[DeeKnow]

the 460 is a fairly good product... it does A/D passthru and the touchscreen is nice...

not much to complain about except the obviously stupid load-tape-from-the-bottom.... jeeeeeez!