Converting PAL to NTSC with DVD recorder

[yumagah]

A number of people have asked about converting PAL format video to NTSC. Now that region-free DVD players are fairly common (see the DVD hacks list here) and many of them will properly convert PAL/NTSC video to the other format, it's easy to make a new DVD in the format you want. Just re-record the DVD from the region-free player to your DVD recorder. (You may have to deal with Macrovision - see my previous post on how I do it). I have found that DVD input gives hardly any noticeable loss when S-video jacks are used everywhere.
Of course one drawback is that 5.1 sound and subtitles are not copied to the new DVD. But the resulting disk will display proper video even on DVD players that do not convert PAL/NTSC. And this is quicker and simpler than re-authoring on a PC and burning.

[GabeB]

I've recently wondered about this process as well. I'm concerned about Macrovision and the other technology (can't remember the name) that won't let you record to DVD Recorders. Have you been successfull?

[donpedro]

As a workarround, you can make copy of DVD on PC and remove macrovision protection (for example to DVD+RW so you don't waste disc). Than play back that DVD, with removed macrovision.

[yumagah]

Yes copying the DVD on a PC is one workaround. But if the original DVD has to be compressed much to fit on a DVD-5, you will lose some image quality when you re-record it. Two re-encodes instead of one...
I happen to have a macro-free player, but it does not properly convert the PAL image. So I run the S-video signal from a region-free player thru an Amoisonic VCD/SVCD recorder that I have, which ignores any copy protection I have seen so far. Some VHS recorders or TV's have both S-video in and out, but if it is a direct wire connection it will not remove macrovision. The Amoisonic runs the signal thru its internal circuitry, like a video stabilizer does. This comes in handy because some commercial video tapes have copy protection on them now too. Gladiator and Princess Mononoke VHS for example. But both could be copied after passing the signal thru the Amoisonic. I know nobody is gonna buy an obsolete VCD recorder just to beat macrovision, but thought I'd share the knowledge anyway. I've heard of video stabilizers for sale but finding one is not so easy on the net.

[donpedro]

Yes copying the DVD on a PC is one workaround. But if the original DVD has to be compressed much to fit on a DVD-5, you will lose some image quality when you re-record it. Two re-encodes instead of one...

Well you can copy just movie, which can probably fit to one DVD without all that extra stuff arround. And if not, there is allways option to split it to two DVD's (rewritable). It is just a sugestion for anybody interested in this process.

[bugster]

. Now that region-free DVD players are fairly common (see the DVD hacks list here) and many of them will properly convert PAL/NTSC video to the other format,

May be true in the US, but AFAIK there are few if any DVD players in the UK, and probably most of europe, that do NTSC to PAL conversion. At best they output PAL-60 (PAL at 60fields per second) or output NTSC signals, when confronted with an NTSC (region 1) disk.
The reason for this? Well, here in Europe we have been importing US sourced VHS tapes and now DVD's for some time. So most TV's are multi-system and can handle either type of signal. So If I connect my UK sourced DVD player to my UK sourced DVD recorder, and insert an NTSC DVD, it will record in NTSC.

So your idea may work for the lucky few Americans that own DVD players capable of converting from PAL to NTSC, but I believe it is no go for the rest of the world.

BTW, your assertion that many DVD players "will properly convert PAL/NTSC video to the other format," I am not sure I agree with, even within the USA, just going on the number of posts regarding this subject on these forums.

I will happily accept it if you can prove me wrong with this, this is just my understanding of the current situation.

[turk690]

So far in ALL multi-region, multi-system DVD players I've encountered,
1) whatever framerate is in the DVD it IS STILL the framerate presented at the output; it didn't change;
2) if there is an AUTO system selection either on the remote, somewhere in the initial settings, or as a multi-way switch on the rear, a 29.97fps-coded DVD will be played as NTSC and a 25fps-coded DVD will be played as PAL.
3) PAL DVDs will ALWAYS be played back as PAL (no option to play back as NTSC), but NTSC DVDs can be selected to be played back as PAL.
In the last case, since that is an NTSC disc, the framerate is STILL 29.97fps, but the color system output (as converted by the player) is PAL. This is a non-standard situation, and proper playback will depend on TVs that can independently detect and play back properly color systems and framerates that are NOT usually associated with one another. A true framerate conversion is possible and indeed there are VHS players out there that do. Maybe there are DVD players that do. But this is a very critical, involving realtime h/w process if output quality is to be paramount. At least in DVDs sourced from 24fps film there ARE the same ABSOLUTE number of frames in its PAL and NTSC counterparts, with 2:3 pulldown in NTSC and a film frame per video frame in PAL.

[donpedro]

1) whatever framerate is in the DVD it IS STILL the framerate presented at the output; it didn't change

Interesting. Maybe you are right. What I am not sure about is how is it possible that PAL DVD is played OK on (US) NTSC TV. From what I know, they are not multi-system. At least when I select output as PAL it is kind of “not correct”. Based what you are saying (US) NTSC TV should be able to play video signal on 60Hz or 50Hz frequency. Is this correct ?

[Richard]

PAL DVD's are not played on NTSC TV's. The dvd player converts the output to NTSC format, so NTSC TV's can play the output.

\Interesting. Maybe you are right. What I am not sure about is how is it possible that PAL DVD is played OK on (US) NTSC TV. From what I know, they are not multi-system. At least when I select output as PAL it is kind of “not correct”. Based what you are saying (US) NTSC TV should be able to play video signal on 60Hz or 50Hz frequency. Is this correct ?[/quote]

[donpedro]

PAL DVD's are not played on NTSC TV's. The dvd player converts the output to NTSC format, so NTSC TV's can play the output.

That is my understanding. But turk690 is trying to tell different as response to somebody's post. So please quote his statements so I know what are you refering to. Thanks.

[turk690]

B4 it all gets mixed up, when "analogue video system" is mentioned there are in turn at least two things associated with it: framerate and color system. When we say full-blooded 'NTSC' this means a framerate of 29.97fps, and the NTSC-color modulation scheme with a subcarrier freq. of 3.58MHz. When 'PAL' this means a framerate of 25fps, and the PAL-color modulation scheme with a subcarrier frequency of 4.43MHz. In old TVs, the association between the two criteria was set in stone such that a framerate of 29.97fps with a PAL color signal (and vice-versa) will NOT be detected properly (picture rolls/tears and/or is monochrome). Present TVs, however, are pretty much the same the world over where their electronics are concerned (at least within a range of specific models in a brand) such that they can INDEPENDENTLY properly detect a specific framerate and a color signal not usually associated with that framerate. I daresay there will be NTSC-only-labeled TVs in the US that will properly play back PAL color signals. It is on this chance that a typical multi-system PAL/NTSC DVD player banks on when it converts the NTSC color signal from a DVD to PAL, maintaining 29.97fps. THE FRAMERATE REMAINS THE SAME; it's easy, electronic-wise to simply remodulate the color from NTSC to PAL, but strictly speaking the resulting signal is non-standard (PAL color with 29.97fps). The instruction manuals of such players emphasize that it WILL NOT display correctly on some TVs. Lucky for those that do.

[netuer]

BTW, your assertion that many DVD players "will properly convert PAL/NTSC video to the other format," I am not sure I agree with, even within the USA, just going on the number of posts regarding this subject on these forums.

I bought a LiteOn LVD-2002. It plays Danish PAL DVD beautifully on my NTSC only Toshiba TV. Oh, it also plays Divx, MP3, MPEG1/2, and JPEG on CD/DVD.

[Bingo-days]

There are indeed, as yumagah states, DVD players who will convert NTSC to fully compliant PAL (both colour and refresh frequency). I believe it's becoming more and more common, no longer confined to high-end players. Some players will even convert from PAL to NTSC, but there's less demand for this feature (I think the Yamada DVX-6100, LiteON LVD-2001, and as Netuer suggests, LVD-2002, may do it.)

I had the Philips DVD737 (european version, I live here), and it converted from NTSC to PAL. I know this because my tv does not take ANY sort of NTSC signal. And I also recorded NTSC discs to PAL VCR.

I have the Pioneer CLD-S315 LD player, and it has a function to modulate' the NTSC colour signal - not the refresh - to PAL. So that's the halfway mark. But on my PAL tv, this only changes a madly flickering B/W picture to a madly flickering colour picture...

On another note; the Hollywood Magic MPEG decoder card has converted from NTSC to PAL, and from PAL to NTSC 'on the fly' for years and years. It's the reason why I originally went for a PC DVD player instead of a standalone.

The drawback of changing refresh 'on the fly' is that in order to be in sync with the sound, the picture 'stutters' or freezes slightly. This is mostly noticed on scenes where the camera pans quickly. Exactly how bad material shot for NTSC TV (as opposed to film source) looks converted to PAL, I do not know, as I have none.

[mazinz]

or if you do have a pc dvd burner, still the best method is ripping that pal disc and re-encoding it over to ntsc.

I know the malata player was top notch though at one point for pal to ntsc conversions