XBOX baby!

[thegecko]

ok the xbox is basically a PC isnt it, it can play DVD's so im beting that theres gotta be a way to get avi and vcd's working on it ?

any ideas anyone?

[jmiller]

IMHO, the XBOX is, and will most likely stay, the biggest pile of shit ever. Who else has switched hardware providers at the last minute (AMD for Intel, and PowerVR for NVidia if I'm not mistaken) besides Mi¢ro$oft? That, to me, shows that they had little faith in those companies. Besides, have you seen how HUGE the logo is on the controllers (which are just modified SideWinder pads anyways)? A big waste of $500 million in marketing...

[Vejita-sama]

It's true that the xbox is basically a PC that's been modded just to play games (and maybe some web stuff) but that doesn't mean it'll be able to play x(S)VCDs and I really doubt it'll play AVI files.

It WILL NOT be able to play DivX files, as it won't have the codec (remember DivX is a rip of M$ MPEG4 codec).

All the gamers I know are more interested in Nitendo's Game Cube (well at least Zelda) and waiting for MGS2 for the PSX2. For some odd reason most gamers in the college+ group also own comptuers and pretty much hate M$ I mean I know guys that have two Dreamcasts (one japanese and one US, bought it as soon as it came out in Japan - and CAN NOT speak japanese) and they basic s&it on the xbox so...

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Vejita-sama on 2001-10-19 02:27:30 ]</font>

[hTK]

I dont know too much about the Xbox.... but people have their opinions on this system ....

One this is for sure it will be a much better system than the PS2 and the Dreamcast put together. The hardware is much better ... i am not sure what OS it is running on thou... CE ????

But i recall on the dreamcast you could convert your VCD's to be playable on the Dreamcast running on CE you just need the bootloader files to be read first then the MPG stream plays... also MP3 files can be played by the Dreamcast same method just need to load some codecs into the Volatile Memory of the unit and play your file.

The Dreamcast could not play DivX mainly because it had no DVD support, but if the XBOX has DVD support then theoretically you may be able to play either SVCD's or DivX with the appropriate software. ????

Well see i hope it does thou.

[vitualis]

The Xbox will run on a version of WinNT (I believe) so it shouldn't be too difficult to write drivers or create software to play VCDs or DivX...

Of course this is all hypothetical and speculative so we will see in due course.

Regards.

[jmiller]

The XBOX will be running on Win2k kernel. Besides, if XBOX is just a computer, it's a lousy one as you can't upgrade it internally (CPU, etc...)

[Sefy]

So all Microsoft fans will buy XBOX, even though they can buy a regular PC for much less, and it will do more, and will be upgradeable, but the XBOX, well, please, it's a "gamers" machine, after all, it has all the latest Microsoft stuff in it, what ? you wanna tell me it's crap ? why am I not surprised ?

So you pay a fortune for a PC immitation which does less then a PC, but cost about the same or more then a PC ?
If anyone buys it, that proves today's people just have no brain! and will buy anything publicized by Microsoft!

[thegecko]

its always power that people go for in the begining.

when the dreamcast was out everyone was saying ps2 has lots more power and will kill it, now look at the xbox!

more power = better games, eg, racing games can have better car physics, it wil feel better to play etc: etc:

I believe that someone will figure out how to play VCD's on the xbox, it can already play DVD's so theres gotta be a way.

and to jmiller. you cant sya that, i know your one of those people that love ps2, i know you are the same person that was saying the ps2 will kill the dreamcast because its more powerfull,

well m8 you gotta eat ya boots now cus its the other way round isnt it, the ps2 is the underpowered dog, and the xbox is the beast on the horizon, you cant hate xbox becasue its from MS if you dont get one just becasue of bill gates then your gonna miss out on alot.

[baker]

Well I think if the xbox was coming from another companie and not micro$oft than everyone would love it.
Am I right or am I right?

[LighthouseJ]

The Xbox is going to be one of the biggest mistakes the game industry will make, especially from "the new guy", Microsoft. Of course the new system will be more powerful, why would they make a less powerful system? Personally, I love my Dreamcast, I don't want to sell it, I want to write games in NetBSD for it. My perception on the best systems are the games that are written for it. The Dreamcast rocks because it has Soul Calibur on it, the best fighting game that will ever be made. I do like the PS2 more because my roommate (I'm in college) brought his, and I play SSX, GT3 and I recently borrowed Onimusha from a guy down the hall.

My point is that the Dreamcast, PS2, Xbox and Gamecube are all blurring the line of the quality of graphics. If I had the same exact game running on each of these four systems all at the same time, very few people could tell the two apart just by the image on the TV. Realistically, this is impossible because of licensing and time issues, but you get the idea. Video game systems don't matter, the games do.

[MishaGray]

The XBOX is running based upon the NT kernel, but it is not running NT. No windows interface, etc. It will NOT be "Windows" compatible.

What is similar is that it is based upon the DirectX API kernel. Companies that are designing games for the PC based upon DirectX will find that a port to XBox will very
easy. This is what Microsoft is banking on.

Also: MS has made it much easier for game writers to publish XBox games without having to put up thousands of dollars in license fees. They still have to pay the fees, but there is little to pay until you actually SELL your games. Sony charges a bundle just to get access to a PS2 development environment. Many people can do XBOX development using a PC as a development platform.

Remember: The hardware is IRRELLEVANT! Yes the XBox will be faster than the PS2. Yes it will have broadband and hard disks from day 1 (no upgrade required). These to me are not reasons to buy one. I will buy one if I think that the games are good. No other reason.

If Microsoft can get good game developers to develop good games, then the console will be worth its money.

I didn't even buy a N64 until Zelda64 came out. Made it worth the purchase in my opinion. (Best damn console game ever, IMHO).

I DID Buy a PS2, and it has been mostly sitting idle. Most fun I have had was playing the MGS2 demo. I have used it more as a DVD player than as a console. Most of the games have made me yawn. Mostly, I just use my Tivo these days!

I will not make the same mistake with either XBox or Gamecube. I will wait until there is at least 2 or 3 games worth playing. Then I will buy. Ignore all the hype from both companies!
Play a few games first. Get addicted. THEN buy one.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: MishaGray on 2001-10-19 15:25:33 ]</font>

[Sefy]

baker, I just want to comment, that even if another company made the XBOX, which is, lets face it, a PC in a disguise, I still say it's a load of crap, i'll give programmers about a month before they figure out how to run the special "XBOX" games on the PC, and then will see how far it will go, this propably won't need emulation!

[ENaMEL]

Personally I won't get an X-Box off the bat.

I never got a N64 until Zelda came out - for the same reason as MishaGray. To me the N64 was more geared for "little" kids - and as a college student did really fit me or my demographic for that matter. But Zelda, which I admit looks child-like, (and maybe some multiplayer Goldeneye) made me like the system enough to buy it. (I later sold it after 2 months - no point to owning if after beating Zelda!)

As for PS2, i bought it on day-1. I already knew i would love the system. Have a PS1 loved the games, so for me it was a no brainer.

But the X-box has to prove itself to me with some great games, just like the n64 had to. I don't care if Microsoft makes the system, I could care less if LEGO made it! If it has good games that's all that matters. The only x-box game that slightly intrigues me is that Bruce Lee game.

But we'll just have to see what games come out. I mean with support from Konami, Sega, Tecmo, and EA, the system should eventually have some gems.

[septor]

I read this from a article for you ms supporters
I will get a xbox and only for one game
wwf raw is war
but check this reading
We all know about Microsoft's announcement of the incredible XBox specifications.
It looks as if the XBox will be alot more powerful than any other next-gen console.
But is this really true? Let's take a closer look at the hardware of the XBox and PS2.


The CPU

Ofcourse, the Central Processing Unit, the heart of every computer or console. Most of
the calculations take place here. The XBox has a Intel Pentium(3?) processor which runs
at a clockspeed of 733MHz. That's alot higher than the 300MHz at which the PS2 CPU is
running. But does that make the CPU better? Nope.

Here's why the PS2 CPU (Emotion Engine) is alot more powerful:

-Data bus, cache memory as well as all registers are 128 bits on the PS2 CPU while the
XBox CPU is 32 bits.
-The 32MB of Direct Rambus DRAM are implemented on the CPU itself.
-It has a max. performance of 6.2GFLOPS while the XBox CPU can only do a bit over
3 GFLOPS.
-It incorporates two 64-bit integer units (IU) with a 128-bit SIMD multi-media command
unit, two independent floating point vector calculation units (VU0, VU1), an MPEG 2
decoder circuit (Image Processing Unit/IPU) and high performance DMA controllers.

Okay now what does this mean? It means that the PS2 can handle heavier physics and 3D
engines (and can do more accurate realistic visual effects like splashing water and
explosions). It also means that the PS2 can handle alot more sophisticated Artificial
Intelligence programming so that you have intelligent human-like opponents. The CPU also
has direct access to the main memory which speeds everything up quite a bit. And with a
floating point calculation performance of 6.2GFLOPS/second, the overall calculation
performance of this new CPU matches that of a super computer. This is a completely new
CPU architecture especially designed for sophisticated graphics and physics while the
architecture of the XBox CPU is pretty old and simple.


The Graphics Chip and VRAM

This is where the images are rendered. The XBox uses an Nvidia Graphics Processing
Unit running at 250MHz and the PS2 uses the Graphics Synthesizer running at 150MHz.
Again, judging by these specs the XBox looks better.
The XBox GPU has a few advantages over the PS2 GS, for example:

-The XBox GPU can do 125 million polygons while the PS2 GS can only do 75million polygons
-The XBox GPU has a max. resolution of 1920x1080 and the PS2 GS can do 1280x1024
The rest of the graphics chip will be comparable to NV-20 chip.

But the catch is that these advantages don't make alot of difference on a TV screen, even
on an HDTV screen the difference would be barely noticeable (when the console's hardware
is used properly).
So, is the XBox Graphics Processing Unit better than the PS2 GS? It doesn't look like it,
the architecture of the PS2 GS looks far more advanced. For example, PS2 has a parallel
rendering engine that contains a 2,560 bit wide data bus that is 20 times the size of
leading PC-based graphics accelerators. The Graphics Synthesizer architecture can
execute recursive multi-pass rendering processing and filter operations at a very fast
speed without the assistance of the main CPU or main bus access. In the
past, this level of real-time performance was only achieved when using very expensive,
high performance, dedicated graphics workstations. There is a 48-Gigabyte memory access
bandwidth achieved via the integration of the pixel logic and the video memory on a
single high performance chip.The quality of the resulting screen image is comparable to
high quality pre-rendered 3D graphics. (that is once the game developers have learned
how to use it properly) There has also been a misunderstanding about the VideoRAM on the
PS2. The VRAM is included in the 32MB of main RAM on the CPU (the developer chooses how
much of it he wants to dedicate to VRAM). Everyone thought the 4MB of memory on the GS
was the VRAM while that is just a buffer in which all the rendering is done so no
external bandwidth is needed (only for texture streaming). Another rumour that's been
spread by several gaming sites is that the XBox is capable of texture compression and
full scene anti-aliasing while the PS2 isn't. This is simply not true. The PS2 can
compress/decompress textures and do full scene anti-aliasing without causing as much
slow-down as on the XBox. And although the XBox GPU can do alot of effects that are
not 'built-in' in the PS2 GS, the PS2 can do all these effects and more in software mode
(but atleast at the same quality) through the Emotion Engine.

I can understand that this is all a bit confusing if you're not a real tech-freak.
It comes down to this: when developers have learned how to use the power of the PS2
GS properly they'll get alot more out of it than XBox developers will get out of the
XBox GPU. The PS2 GS can't do as much polygons as the XBox but this difference won't
be noticeable on a TV screen. The PS2 GS can do alot more advanced visual effects
than the XBox GPU.


The RAM

This is the main memory of a console or computer system. There isn't much to say about
the RAM. XBox has twice as much RAM as the PS2. Will this give the XBox a huge
advantage? Not at all, let's take a look at how the PS2 accesses the RAM:

-32MB Direct RDRAM 2 channels at 800MHz implemented on the CPU itself.

This means that the PS2's powerful Emotion Engine can manipulate the data stored in the
RAM atleast twice as fast as the XBox can access its memory. This is very important
cause all data is stored there (even the graphics because the VRAM is included in those
32MB of RAM). Judging by the information that Microsoft has released it looks like the
PS2 can also compress and decompress images faster than the XBox because of the
implementation of the MPEG2 decoder on the CPU. Even if they increase the RAM on the
XBox to 128MB, PS2 still has the advantage here.


The Sound Chip

This is where the XBox does beat the PS2. The XBox has 64 sound channels while the PS2
has 48. This won't make the noticeable difference though. What will is that the XBox
sound chip is designed for interactive and variable CD quality music which means that
the music in games can (if the developers use the feature) change and adapt itself to
the gameplay. The PS2 sound chip is simply designed for 'precalculated' CD music.
It's possible to do interactive music on the PS2, it's just a bit harder to program
(but certainly not impossible, just listen carefully to SSX) than on the XBox which
is why you'll probably see more XBox games with interactive music.


Backwards Compatibility and PC ports

As you probably already know, the PS2 can play all old Playstation games and even enhance
the graphics and speed up loading times. This gives the PS2 a huge advantage ofcourse.
But the XBox has another advantage over the PS2: PC ports. It's very easy for a PC game
developer to create an XBox version of his game because the XBox hardware design looks
alot like that of a PC. And while the PS2's hardware architecture is superior to that
of the XBox, it's alot more difficult to make a PS2 version of a PC game because of the
huge difference in hardware designs. If a PC developer wants to port a PC game to the
XBox he just has to make some modifications in the programming code. But if a PC
developer wants to port a PC game to the PS2 he has to rewrite most of the programming
code. Ofcourse, in time the developers will get used to the PS2 hardware and they'll be
able to make great PC to PS2 ports.


Conclusion

Microsoft did a great job at making the XBox look alot better than the PS2 while in
reality the PS2 is alot more powerful. Specifications are just there for marketing
purposes. Like they probably made you believe that a 128bits console is always 4 times
better than a 32 bits console, which is total bull****. Ofcourse 128bits is better but
it doesn't make alot of difference. And now Microsoft is trying to make you believe
that the XBox is better cause the CPU clockspeed (733MHz) is alot higher than that of
all the other consoles. In the end it's the architecture of the hardware that makes
the difference. And the PS2's architecture is simply revolutionary. The graphics of
the launch titles were great but they'll get alot better next year because the
developers are still getting used to the PS2 hardware. Developers like Square (just
look at The Bouncer) and Konami (MGS2? Zone Of Enders?) already learned how to do some
cool tricks on the PS2, and this is just the beginning. The PS2's hardware has alot
more depth to it and so you'll see a huge evolution in graphics while the XBox hardware
is alot simpler and the developers will have pushed it to the max pretty soon.
Yes, XBox is easier to program for but by the time it comes out developers will already
know how to use the power of the PS2. The overall PS2 hardware architecture is alot more
innovative and powerful than that of the XBox.

[Vejita-sama]

The xbox might/should have better graphics then the PSX2, but that doesn't really matter. Beta was/is a better format then VHS but VHS won? Why, because beta was stupid. Same with Atari computers.

It's all about the games. If the xbox can come out with a game that makes you want to buy the system just to play that game it'll be a success. Sony has the market because sony has the games (FF, MGS, etc) and Nintendo's got Zelda and Mario.

The xbox has Abe's Odd world (good game but not great) and nothing! We'll have to wait and see. But I know a lot of people that like the PSX over the PSX2 because the games are out for the PSX. You can play PSX1 games on a PSX2 so when MGS2 comes out...

[spiderman2k1]

I do not think X-BOX will play CDR's or CDRW's. All the titles for X-box are on DVD rom format

[prototypikal]

the microsoft campus is kinda clos by seattle and i've had co-workers play test the x-box at the microsoft campus. they all had the same conclusion:

PS2 is alot better!!!

[richy]

Surely the one good thing the X-Box "may" have over a PC is that you can shove it under the telly and "might" be able to watch DivX stuff without any hassles with loads of cables etc everywhere (and to the guy above talking about DivX - the DivX.com codec isn't a hacked MS codec). With DVD support as well then it's a pretty good all-in-one solution. I for one want to spend less time in front of my PC and want to watch movies on a TV, not my monitor. DivX can give you much better quality over VCD and you should be able to get the "Holy Grail" of a whole movie onto 1 CD without too much quality degredation. OK, so there's a lot of speculation at the moment but surely the possibility of having a console that you might be able to produce stuff for on your PC is much better than just throwing more money at Sony. Right?

[JHebert]

Since the XBox is mostly PC based it will no doubt have an IDE DVD-ROM drive so I bet CDR/CDRW will not be a problem.
Also the DVD playback software is based on a version of Ravisent Cinemaster licensed by MS so VCD/SVCD may also work.
Its also hard to imagine MS not including some type of Windows Media support. Perhaps even UltimateTV/Tivo type of functionality in the future. MS of course would like nothing more than to make themselves the "standard" instead of real MPEG4, and XBox could be leverage for this. I'm sure DivX is out of the question until someone figures how to hack the XBox OS.
But like others have said the quality of games is the bottom line, tech-wars notwithstanding. In this matchup I think PSX2 and GameCube will both beat the XBox.

[N. Aeschylus]

I think you guys are forgetting the way Microsoft operates. X-Box may be inferior to PS2 in terms of hardware, but, they're giving their SDK away. Sony charges $25,000 for theirs.

They plan on beating Sony the same way they beat Apple: open licensing. Since there's also a broadband connection and hard-drive built in, expect to see X-box shareware, certainly X-box divx codecs and vcd players, &c.
Now, admittedly most shareware is crap, anyway. But unless Sony leans on them, expect pretty much every game not created by Sony or Nintendo to end up also available for X-box.


Furthermore, the hardware itself can't be a bad deal as microsoft is selling the boxes at a loss (Sony does this too). This is the "razor and blades" business model, where companies seed the market with a cheap base device, then sell over-priced accessories (ever wonder why Sony memory cards & controllers are so damned expensive?) to make up the difference. So, maybe everyone should just buy the x-box and gut it for the hardware (if it can be done).

Finally, Microsoft has around $30 billion in free cash at the moment. You can do a lot with that much money, including riding an initial failure out for as long as it takes to dominate.

I'm not particularly technically literate, but I work as a junior analyst for an equity research firm. From the business end of things, Microsoft will probably win again, whether the x-box sucks or not.

Wouldn't be the first time...

[sesquim]

Right now I have a very bad computer, thats why I'm looking to buy a game system like Xbox,PS2,Dreamcast,Gamecube,and these systems are way cheaper than me buying a new computer system for games. My computer right now is used for mp3's, Internet and school work.

After reading all the posts,reviews, from many forums and websites, I am now very confused. Some people say Xbox is better,PS2 is better,Gamecube is better,Dreamcast is better.

When Dreamcast came out I was about to buy it but I read that PS2,Nintendo is coming out and now xbox. So I waited and I thought that Dreamcast has pretty good graphics and has internet too. But I heard that sega will stop making games for it or something like that. But sega right now is VERY CHEAP!.

I think PS2 has good graphics too but it's too exepensive but its still cheaper than getting a new computer system for games. I like how it has DVD and can play Playstation One games. So if you already have playstation you might wana get PS2.

A lot of people has mixed responses towards xbox some say its better graphics than PS2 and Gamecube. But I like how its has fast internet and DVD. And more features like making soundtrack for your games and save games in Harddrive. Some people say this is a PC, but its still cheaper than me buying a computer system for games. And I think xbox is suped up PC specially created to play games unlike a real PC which is created for many things.

I think Gamecube doesn't look as good as PS2 and Xbox but I like nintendo and ther games. My most favourite game of all time is Super Mario World for Super Nintendo, I still play this game. I dont know about the graphics of Gamecube but ill just see and compare it to PS2 and Xbox when it comes out. Ya game cube does have internet or DVD but if I buy Game Cube it would be for the games and anyway if i want a DVD player, I can just go out and buy a real one.

I'll just have to wait and see a month after all this system are out to see which one is better for me. So now I dont really care about what other people or reviews say about any of these systems, I'll just see for myself.

[Octagon]

Listen up. If you throw enough money at anything people will eventually give in. I remember people use to say PS one sucked ass. And everyone eventually got one. Frankly its cheaper to make games on Xbox: so you'll have pc games coming and anything for PS2/Game Q.

Fact of the matter is how is sony going to compete Internet wise with MS? MS has the ability to have proper Band width and connectivity allowing ease of use to play games online. I bet if will be a bit difficult for sony to get things wired in America. Also who can bleed the most? MS or SOny or Nintendo? Sony and nintendo have a lot to lose. Microsoft could lose a bunch and still not feel it like some sort of freakish juggernuat.

Also Sefy those comments on it being a Pc are stupid. PS2 is tring to become a comp. SO if Xbox is a comp then PS2 is a wanna be with lower tech.

[DVI]

"Who else has switched hardware providers at the last minute (AMD for Intel, and PowerVR for NVidia if I'm not mistaken) besides Mi¢ro$oft? That, to me, shows that they had little faith in those companies. Besides, have you seen how HUGE the logo is on the controllers (which are just modified SideWinder pads anyways)? A big waste of $500 million in marketing..."

Jesus the amount of miss-information concerning the Xbox on these forums is downright astounding! That's what going to kill the system if anything..... Let's see......

1. The processor was RUMORED to be an AMD, way way back near it's inception - but knowing MS's relationship with Intel it shouldn't have taken a genious to figure out why the processor is based off of a P3.

2. The graphics chip has ALWAYS been the Nvidia. Power VR is used in the Dreamcast.

3. The controller has NOTHING to do with a Sidewinder, never has, never will - it's a controller designed for the Xbox.

"It's true that the xbox is basically a PC that's been modded just to play games (and maybe some web stuff) but that doesn't mean it'll be able to play x(S)VCDs and I really doubt it'll play AVI files."


A PC that's been modded? While it DOES have a PC based processor ( much like the Nintendo GameCube ) and graphics chip ( like the Dreamcast ), it IS NOT a PC. There is no OS in the unit, the games boot from disc like every other console ever made. Also, the harddrive will NOT be used to "install" games in the traditional manner a PC does. It will stream data too it for loading time purposes, be used for ripping custom soundtracks from CD, and game save files ( no need for memory cards ). New levels may be made available for download so some content may end up on it, but having the drive built-in will ensure developers actually allocate resources to USING the drive - unlike the PS2 HD add-on. I believe the PS2 HD ( 40 Gigs ) will most likely be nothing more than Sony's way of having you pay them online for content ( movies, music, games - all of the other media properties Sony owns ) to download directly too the drive. It's brilliant - Sony will sell the HD at retail only to use it to subvert the retailers in the end..... and the user has to pay the $100+ for this "feature"!

"It WILL NOT be able to play DivX files, as it won't have the codec (remember DivX is a rip of M$ MPEG4 codec)."

First of all, Divx WAS a "rip of M$ MPEG4 codec" - the new release ( Divx 4 ) is not. Also, just because it doesn't do something out of the box, doesn't mean it won't be able to be made to do it down the road. I just bought a $30 remote, IR reciever, and software disc ( it's distributed from China - the "Dreammovie" player ) for my Dreamcast that allows for GORGEOUS Video CD playback on the DC - something it doesn't do out of the box. Not to mention the various homebrewed emulators ( NES, SNES, Master system, etc. ) written / ported to the console by hobbyists and media players, MP3 players, etc. It may be pushing it - but we could even see Divx playback on the DC. Check out http://www.dcemulation.com for DC homebrew info. I believe this same sort of "scene" will develop for the Xbox - only the Xbox is powerful enough to probably emulate a PS2!

"So all Microsoft fans will buy XBOX, even though they can buy a regular PC for much less, and it will do more, and will be upgradeable, "

Uh? Where can one buy a "regular" PC for under $300? Yea, that's what I thought.

"The Xbox is going to be one of the biggest mistakes the game industry will make, especially from "the new guy", Microsoft."

Oh sure, I rememeber what a huge flop that Playstation was - from "the new guy" Sony!?

"The xbox has Abe's Odd world (good game but not great) and nothing!"

Oh that's right - the Xbox has "no good games" - right. Never mind the fact that EA Sports is onboard, the Xbox is Sega's choice for NEW Sega games, most PS2 games that fanboys freak out about will see versions on the Xbox, such as MGS2 ( MGSx on the Xbox ), Madden, SSX snowboarding, FFX ( MS has been in talks with Square for two years - it was announced at a recent shareholders meeting that FFX will come out on PC, PS2 and then "other consoles" - it's no wonder seeing as Sony lost millions for Square on the FF movie. An official announcment is expected early next year ), Silent Hill, even Crash Bandicoot will be on Xbox. Check out http://www.gorillax.com for the whole listing of over 300 games in development from nearly 250 publishers. There are PLENTY of great games coming for the system, Dead or Alive 3, Soul Caliber 2, two Nascar titles, a WWF game, a version of Unreal, Tony Hawk, etc. If you can't find games you want to play on the Xbox than WHAT GAMES DO YOU PLAY AT ALL?

As for a detailed technical comparison of the GameCube, Xbox, Dreamcast ( and a little PS2 info ), check out http://www.segatech.com. The XBox is BY FAR the most powerful console out to date. And yet - I've played the kiosk ( Abe's Oddysey ) - and even I admit I wasn't "that" impressed. But, I understand that Oddworld has been in development for literaly years, and they had no idea what the finished system spec.s would be when it was started - by their own admition the game uses a FRACTION of the systems power. A FRACTION. Games like Dead or Alive 3 look better than anything else, and I'm sure Sega's dev. houses will get some gorgeous titles out quickly ( heck Sega can code great games on a PS2.... ) but it's gonna take TIME people to get the really impressive stuff out. Some of these companies have had dev. kits since only August! Also, the system doesn't have the benefit of having launched in another country 6-8 months earlier - like most consoles do.

And finally........

I don't want to hear "Micro$oft" bashing from PS2 supporters, you think MS is a "big evil company"? Sony has NOTHING on Microsoft, NOTHING.

Sony ( Columbia, Tri-Star, etc. ) makes a movie. It's filmed at Sony Studios, with Sony Camera's and equipment, on Sony tape, can feature plugs of various Sony products ( this is done frequently is Sony movies - they show Sony TV's, VCR's, DVD players, etc. ) the audio / music for the film is done on a Sony soundstage, the movie is edited and mixed on Sony equipment, the final product is pressed and packaged at a Sony facility on Sony tape/DVD media and distributed by Sony to retailers and/or Sony stores. You could purchase it with your Sony credit card! In addition the soundtrack album features Sony artists and is released on a Sony label ( Epic, Columbia, etc. ) - the licensed video game could also be on a Sony console. On top of all that, the final end product is viewed on a Sony TV with a Sony VCR/DVD player/DirecTV satellite reciever, and or at a Sony Theater - in Sony Surround! ( Dolby wouldn't sell ).

There isn't ONE other company on this planet that has as much control over the entire process as Sony does. Heck, other movie studios have to rent Sony's facilities! I mean Sony owns it's own theaters, wasn't that made illegal years ago? This is really just ONE aspect of Sony too, what about the numerous TV shows they produce, such as Friends ( they have a PS and SURELY will be getting a PS2 ), Jeopardy ( Rock and Roll Jeopardy has a Sony card plug at the end of every episode ), Wheel of Fortune ( they give away "State of the art" Sony prize packages all the time ) and networks such as Game Show Network ( who's ads sometimes show Sony products ) and the Sony Channel, which is on in another country I can't remember right now. They have "Sony Style" magazine, where you essentialy pay $5 for a magazine with nothing but articles and ads on how great Sony products / Sony is.

"Only in America folks".

There's more concerning Sony, such as lying in a national TV ad campaign about inventing the CD, cheating on US taxes a few years back, trying to weasel out of paying UK taxes on the PS2, and there's really much much more.

My point is plain and simple - those who just hate the Xbox because it's from "Micro$oft" but own a PS2 are just exchanging one "big evil company" for another. One of them just gets more bad press.

[thxkid]

I thought they were jerks back then and I still think today they are jerks anyone who pays $300 for a gaming ONLY system is plain stupid that means you PS2 owners, my computer will do everything that cheap system will do and still burn VCD's, SVCD's, play DVD's, ouput DVD's to a VHS without any copy guard, get on the net, capture any video sourceand I can rent and copy any PC game cheaper than a DVD PS2 gamer can.

[jmiller]

i seriously don't know what the **** you've been smoking thegecko, but tell your dealer that shit is spiked. I own a DC and I STILL think the DC is better...and i still say it's a pile of shit. Hope you XBOX lovers love playing the fun game of BSOD and Update That F#$king driver...PS2 will be doing that driver deal as soon as the hdd for it is in everyone's hands...

[Sefy]

DVI, very nice speech, almost had me too, now tell me just a few little things, does Sony control the entire Movie Industry too ? what about Universal Pictures, Warner Brothers, Walt Disney ? they no longer count as part of the movie industry ? doesn't that mean there is competition in the Movie Industry ?

Face it, you know it, just like everyone with 1 IQ in his head, Microsoft is simply expanding their control, which i'm quite sure they will succed by the way, to the Gaming Market, they will give you a lousy product, and after they win, they will over charge you as usuall with everything else, ever tried comparing a Complete PC price and then just Windows and Office2000 Professional price ? I think you may find that the cost of those two things can beat the price of nearly any PC!

Fact is, the XBox is PC based, sure, it's for 300$, does it come with a monitor ? you can buy a complete PC which can be UPGRADED for as little as 900$, oh and it includes a 17" Monitor too! and if today's PC's can run using emulation PS games and DC games and Sega games, and since the XBox is based on a PC, how long do you think it will take to get those games to run on the PC ? after all, it's using only a 733mhz CPU, PC's today can go upto 2ghz! and you can upgrade them, you can propably run XBox games on the PC even faster!!!.

So don't tell me you are exchanging one evil company for another that just has more bad press, if it has that much bad press, don't you think there is something behind it ? Microsoft is WELL known at giving you CRAP and you eating it and liking it too!

PS: I don't own a SINGLE product that has the name Sony on it!, I prefer the Sega and Nintendo any day!

[DVI]

"DVI, very nice speech, almost had me too, now tell me just a few little things, does Sony control the entire Movie Industry too ? what about Universal Pictures, Warner Brothers, Walt Disney ? they no longer count as part of the movie industry ? doesn't that mean there is competition in the Movie Industry ?"

I didn't say Sony had a monopoly on the movie industry, just quite a bit of leveraged control. Does Universal or Disney actually make the EQUIPMENT to make the movies in addition to making the movies AND own the theaters they are shown in? Heck, do you think if the theater has an arcade there would be any game in it that didn't "jive" with the PS2? Can other studios put out licensed games from THEIR movies and TV shows ( Jeopardy and Wheel of Fortune won't be on anything but PS2, for example ) on THEIR console? Granted, certain companies have leverage from Network affiliation ( Sony can't legaly own a US station until they get the WTO to change some laws ), TV studios, MS has MS-NBC and MSN, Disney owns record companies, etc. But Sony really seems to "do it all". Heck, do you think if the theater has an arcade there would be any game in it that didn't "jive" with the PS2?

"Face it, you know it, just like everyone with 1 IQ in his head, Microsoft is simply expanding their control, which i'm quite sure they will succed by the way, to the Gaming Market, they will give you a lousy product, and after they win, they will over charge you as usuall with everything else,"

Hey, plain and simple...... if I didn't like what I am seeing on the Xbox than I wouldn't want to buy one. By the way I don't plan on buying one until next year sometime. Isn't Sony or Nintendo not "expanding their control" with every new platform / device they create? Memory Stick? MiniDisc? GameBoy Advance? The difference is Sony actually OWNS about 1/5 of the media and decides what goes onto what format ( hence the leverage ), in addition to making and selling the hardware.

"ever tried comparing a Complete PC price and then just Windows and Office2000 Professional price ?"

What's your point? I haven't had to buy Windows seperately and I could care less. Obviously, MS is charging a certain amount and people are buying it. It's not like there isn't competition, or a half dozen other office tool programs available from various companies.

"and if today's PC's can run using emulation PS games and DC games and Sega games, and since the XBox is based on a PC, how long do you think it will take to get those games to run on the PC ? after all, it's using only a 733mhz CPU, PC's today can go upto 2ghz! and you can upgrade them, you can propably run XBox games on the PC even faster!!!."

I'm talking about consoles. The console war. Xbox vs. PS2 vs. GameCube. Was I talking about PC gaming? Someone had simply said "you can buy a PC for less" and it AIN'T TRUE.

And as far as I know, even 2GHz PC's aren't emulating the DC 100% yet, I'm sure they will... just not yet. And I really don't think you'll be able to just pop an Xbox game into a PC, launch a program and run it - even if it's Direct X, it's totally optimized for fixed hardware. And it's not like EVERY developer has to code in Direct X, there a various API's and tools so they can code for Xbox in a console friendly enviornment. I'm sure someday down the road there will be Xbox stuff on PC, but what's the point of doing NOW, really?

"So don't tell me you are exchanging one evil company for another that just has more bad press, if it has that much bad press, don't you think there is something behind it ?"

Sure I do, and it's not neccesarily because one IS worse than the other - it could be because for whatever reason or another, one happens to have more media ( or "market-related" ) pull than the other.

"Microsoft is WELL known at giving you CRAP and you eating it and liking it too!"

Hey listen, what REAL OS competition is there, REALLY. Is someone like say, my mom or some idiot co-worker going to be able to use, say Linux? How 'bout install it? Yes, I know there are newer "consumer-friendly" releases of it ( and I think that's a good thing ) that I haven't tried, but I can guess it isn't going to go as smoothly for the average uninformed bloke as a Windows install. It may RUN with more stability but that's another story......
Also, I think the Mac OS could be serious competition if they would OPEN UP THE HARDWARE. I build PC's ( Athelon, of course ) and the minute I can install the Mac OS I'll try it. You listening Apple?

"PS: I don't own a SINGLE product that has the name Sony on it!, I prefer the Sega and Nintendo any day!"

Well then you tell me what I'm supposed to buy to play Sega's new games?

[Sefy]

DVI, Yes, Sony has alot of control in the media world, but it still doesn't dominate it like Microsoft does with the PC software world, and unlike Sony which for example don't invent their own PC, they use other companies and brand it, i'll bet many parts in their electronics are made by other companies, there is competition, that's why it's still improving.

On the other hand, Microsoft moves into DIFFRENT market types, they have DOMINATION in the PC Software, if they want to bring a company down, they can afford to market their products as "free" while the other company is dying, then start charging (IE is free right ? how come the only diffrence between each 9x version is IE? so you basicly PAY for a new IE on your system, oh and of course, more drivers which you don't need), and they also moved into Hardware (Mice,Keyboard,Sound...) because they can afford to!

There IS NO competition in the PC Software when it comes to Microsoft, people have no choice any more, sure they can try and not use for example Office, but since their work place uses it, they must! Microsoft has too much of control and power and while PC Hardware is already at 64bit, we are using a pathetic excuse for 32bit.
You think you have half a dozen Office tools, but that is not true, Microsoft either buys out the competition (Corel anyone?) and kills the product.

But this is not a debate over Microsoft's power, this is about the XBOX, so lets concentrate on it, yes it's true that PC still doesn't run 100% of the DC or PS games, but that's because it requires to emulate ALOT, on the XBOX hand however, CPU is the same, Graphic Card is the same, not to mention the SAME directX! practicly the whole system is the same as a PC regarding the Hardware part, so it does not need to be emulated! therefor an XBOX emulation is not just more possible, but it would run even faster on a regular PC which you already have then the XBOX itself.

Of course there isn't any OS competition, how can ANYONE compete with something that rules ? lets say you do have an EASY to install OS (ever tried OS/2 Warp 4? or BeOS 5.0 Pro ? takes 15min and you got a whole system up and even an idiot can do it!) but what is the point ? Microsoft DOMINATES the PC market, in order to make a OS compete, it has to be Microsoft Compatible, and what's the point of making that when you already have Microsoft OS ?

I have Mame, and I have Genesis and Nintendo and DC emulations all running on the PC, and I guarntee you that after the XBOX is released you'll play those games on the PC at even better quality and speed.

[pinoy2201]

i think xbox is a piece of shit ..i will stick to my PS2 and DC....im waiting to get nintendo GameCube

[SteveZ103]

"i think xbox is a piece of shit ..i will stick to my PS2 and DC....im waiting to get nintendo GameCube"

Arg, do you know that that system is targeted for 8 year old kids? They dont even have a teen rated game for launch, I think the first one comes out a month or two after launch