XBOX baby!

[valzuniga]

I hate Sony Playstation, those faggots at Sony make one good product and think that they can take an entire gaming market into their direction. Sony Sucks! I'd rather buy a gamecube or dare i say, even an XBox! Sony has long been imposing their stupid standards into the electronic community. I mean memory stick? What a piece of SHHHHHHIIiTTT! The Mavica Camera, with the stupid disk drive? Why cant they just admit that other companies have won the standards war and embrace them!!! The only cool sony invention has been the walkman, thats it, thats all. I hope xbox, exceeds playstation 2 sales.

[jmiller]

"Arg, do you know that that system is targeted for 8 year old kids? They dont even have a teen rated game for launch, I think the first one comes out a month or two after launch"

So you're telling me you would only buy a game console only if it has some Teen rated games at release time? Poor excuse indeed...I take it you didn't have a Nintendo then...

[Operationz]

XBOX is just another attempt at M$ to corner a business market. I think it'll flop! Oh sure, magazines like maxim and stuff and other trash say it's like a gift from God but then again they did get a nice chunk of change from M$ to print such crap! Screw M$, screw their lame-ass products and screw any console system where you have to install the gamez! Isn't the point of having a console system to be able to pop in a game and immediately play it??

[SteveZ103]

"So you're telling me you would only buy a game console only if it has some Teen rated games at release time? Poor excuse indeed...I take it you didn't have a Nintendo then..."

Yes, that is, i dont want to play dumb little kiddie games, so ill get an xbox, or a ps2, because they have good games.
Gamecube is a dud, and the japanese launch proved it, it launched with 3 games...

[Known]

lol, **** me, the EXbox isn't even out yet.

[sesquim]

See this is what i mean, people who have PS2 say Xbox sucks, people who have DC say PS2 or Xbox sucks, oh ya did Nintendo started or invented gaming consoles?

[septor]

some of you guys don't see it clearly
xbox looks like a great system
the gamecube is great from what I have played on it
Ps2 I own and I love it as well as my dreamcast
well maybe the ps2 a lot more
but when it all comes down to it
they're all 128bit
we have been waiting for the next step
need i say 256 that would rock
at least a step into the future
wow textures or polygons look better
big whoop its not 256
still 128
Until then I will buy a xbox and stick with my ps2 and dc
why bash em all when u can be a pokemon and catch em all
Its not graphics that make a console its the quality of the games and ingenuity
If we keep telling them we want street fighter we're gonna keep getting more crap of the same
same goes with consoles
sony had a great first year
they have deep pockets as much as microsoft does
everyone thinks about the game division only
but they are another monopoly as well
Nintendo is the one with the not so fat pockets
All of them will be good thats what no one gets
this is the prime year for video gaming
and after this the next step is maybe 256bit which I'm sure we all can't wait
so the bottom line is get everyone and enjoy them because they are all we will get for a while and its useless to limit yourself to one system
well thats all i gotta say about that

[Operationz]

septor, I agree: graphics don't make the game/console!

[Sefy]

You guys don't get me yet, what is the point of buying the XBox ? it is based on PC Hardware, unlike other systems which have different hardware and require alot of emulation power on the PC to run, the XBox IS a PC in disguise no matter how you look at it! which means programmers have half their job saved up because they won't need to run any Hardware Emulation, only Software!

So AGAIN, what is the POINT in buying ANOTHER PC for 300$ ? (not to mention the cost of accessories which will of course come out later on!)

[Octagon]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-21 02:47:18, Sefy wrote:
You guys don't get me yet, what is the point of buying the XBox ? it is based on PC Hardware, unlike other systems which have different hardware and require alot of emulation power on the PC to run, the XBox IS a PC in disguise no matter how you look at it! which means programmers have half their job saved up because they won't need to run any Hardware Emulation, only Software!

So AGAIN, what is the POINT in buying ANOTHER PC for 300$ ? (not to mention the cost of accessories which will of course come out later on!)

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Pirating crap that wont come out on PC. Fool.

[TIbrO]

To tell you guys the truth, I am sort of a Sega loyalist, and I think I said why I am in another thread about videogames started by nfl2k2 like two weeks ago. I had a long post that I don't want to repeat. So anyway, I will say that I love my DC the most, because it is the best. It acts the most like a PC, which is really the ultimate gaming system. Plus, I love the Boot CD and my import games and IRC download games...

However, I am going to buy a PSone soon, because I want to get the Dance Dance Revolution game series, which is up to the 5th part now, not including the other unnumbered mixes. I already have two playstation pads waiting to get used by a PSOne and DDR. Right now I use a DC SmartJoy peripheral for my DC that lets you use your VMU with a playstation controller. Good stuff.
But anyway, yeah... the moral of my post is the same as a few people have said a little bit before me... that it's all about the games. I would never buy a Playstation, and I haven't yet, because I have always used my DC and PC more. But now that has changed because of a game, well, a series of games, that is only available on the Playstation platform, and Konami only ported two of those games to the DC. If Konami would wake up and release the damn DDR mixes for DC, I wouldn't have to buy another damn system.

So all I know is that I will try to hold true to the promise I made myself two months after I bought my DC on release date 9/9/99... which was that after DC, I would never buy another gaming console. But that PSone and the DDR games are real tempting! I've wasted so much money on consoles over the years, which I now realize I could have used for other things, like computer upgrades, or simply more computers, or a damn car for me. But when you're young, you don't really think ahead. I am still young, 17 to be exact, but I now notice what all of the older people in my life were telling me when they would tell me "You know, you're wasting your money on these things, when you get older you won't even use them anymore."
And they were right. Because every console I ever bought or was given to me as a gift is gone. I don't know where any of them are. The only console that has survived longer than a year with me is my DC. Only second to my PC.

_________________
irc.foozone.net port 6667 #Anime

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: TIbrO on 2001-10-21 04:07:31 ]</font>

[Sefy]

Very mature answer Octagon, and i'll presume you are much better then me right ? you never "pirated" a single game in your entire life, or anything else for that matter of course, you are the simble of purety and justice and you bought every single piece of software you have.

You must be loaded, with something atleast.
I may be a "fool", but atleast i'm not twisting the truth.

[vitualis]

I have to agree with TIbrO's sentiments...

The console itself is irrelevant -- it is the games which are important... I recently bought a second hand PSX too because I wanted to play the Final Fantasy series...

Furthermore, there is a big difference between PC and console gaming. Games which are great on the PC, may not do well on a console and similarly vice versa... I know that I could have played the FF series on PC (with an emulator or the PC versions) but somehow that game is just much more enjoyable played on a console.

Regards.

[d4n13l]

You are right, there is nothing like a console. My first was the NES, I only had about 15 games. I have a NES emu for my PC with about 200 games, I would give that up anyday to have my NES back. Nothing beats playing multiplayer with all your mates crowded round a TV screen. N64's Goldeneye is probably the best multiplayer I have ever played in my life, a thousand times better than any PC game. Strategy games like Red Alert are better for the PC. But for outright fun nothing beats a true console.
The X-box is a hybrid, it is hard to see how it will fair as there has been nothing like it to date. It will probably end up being a rich kids play toy (or a rich bachelors play toy), not a true console great. Gameplay matters most, the X-box is too much like a virtual reality machine. I would rather have a collecovisin!

[DVI]

"DVI, Yes, Sony has alot of control in the media world, but it still doesn't dominate it like Microsoft does with the PC software world, and unlike Sony which for example don't invent their own PC, they use other companies and brand it,"

Since when does MS make their own PC? And I never said that MS doesn't make predatory business decisions or wasn't a "big evil company", my whole point ( plain and simple ) was that the PS2 fanboys who hate "Micro$oft" are supporting another giant, "evil" company with questionable business practices as well.

"i'll bet many parts in their electronics are made by other companies, there is competition, that's why it's still improving."

Sure, but other companies have no choice when it comes to supporting Sony's standards. They all pretty much just give in and sign on with Memory Stick and MiniDisc because they realize that without the added leverage of OWNING THE CONTENT and deciding where it goes thier formats would never compete with Sony's - how could they? They NEED Sony's movies and music content to survive, and Sony is only gonna do what's best for SONY - and that is pimping their exclusive formats. I'm telling you, what do you think the PS2 harddrive is for? "Oh, MS is gonna do a Tivo setup and charge people for content, that big evil company." Content? What content? MS doesn't own any media, and besides - the 10 Gig Xbox HD is too small for much more than game saves, streaming data, MP3 storage, etc. No - consumers will spend at least $100 ( unless they co-op with AOL ) for the 40 Gig PS2 harddive ( most likely at retail ), so that Sony can SUBVERT the retail process all together and sell it's movies, music, and games, directly to the customers - that's more profit for them!

"On the other hand, Microsoft moves into DIFFRENT market types, they have DOMINATION in the PC Software,"

Oh, those bastards, moving into different market types. Christ, what market is left for Sony to move into? TV and movies, music, various electronics both consumer and pro, PC's, complete production, manufacturing, distribution, REALLY what is left for them to do? How long before they make cars? They'd have a built-in PS2 and MiniDisc player too! Plus, Sony being Sony, they'd have Sony gas stations ( selling ONLY Sony-made and distributed gas, of course ) and you'd have to use only Sony gas in your Sony car - put it on your Sony card! Don't worry though, because soon other car makers would sign on and their cars will run Sony gas too.....

"if they want to bring a company down, they can afford to market their products as "free" while the other company is dying, then start charging (IE is free right ? how come the only diffrence between each 9x version is IE? so you basicly PAY for a new IE on your system, oh and of course, more drivers which you don't need),"

I used to run Netscape ( which was and still is free ) until it started getting buggy as hell. AOL buying them is what killed Netscape. Again, I'm not saying MS putting IE into Windows isn't a slimy business practice.

"and they also moved into Hardware (Mice,Keyboard,Sound...) because they can afford to!"

Mice? Those EVIL mofos! Wait, sound? MS makes soundcards? Oh, speakers probably.....

"But this is not a debate over Microsoft's power, this is about the XBOX, so lets concentrate on it, yes it's true that PC still doesn't run 100% of the DC or PS games, but that's because it requires to emulate ALOT, on the XBOX hand however, CPU is the same, Graphic Card is the same, not to mention the SAME directX! practicly the whole system is the same as a PC regarding the Hardware part, so it does not need to be emulated!"

I'm not saying the Xbox won't be emulated on a PC, but WHEN? No one knows if the Xbox DVD's will even be able to be read by a standard DVD-ROM ( not that everyone in the emulation scene runs originals ), like DC emulators - you might need illegal copies to run them. Yes, it should be easier to run Xbox games than, say those of a RISC-based processor console, but what about the kernel? The OS in in the game itself, a PC with Windows installed ain't gonna run it out of the box - that's for sure. It might take months or years to reverse engineer everything to make it happen.

"therefor an XBOX emulation is not just more possible, but it would run even faster on a regular PC which you already have then the XBOX itself."

Why would I need or want them to run any faster? Look, it's gonna cost me well over $300 to upgrade my PC to a system capable of running Xbox games, and like I said - who knows when that will happen? I just want to play Sega's new games really, I don't care if the system they're on isn't the best selling. My whole point was that Sony is an "evil" company too, and yours is "screw the evil Xbox, run the games on your Windows-based PC"!

"Microsoft DOMINATES the PC market, in order to make a OS compete, it has to be Microsoft Compatible, and what's the point of making that when you already have Microsoft OS ?"

Ahem. Apple? What about Apple? Like I said, I'd run the Mac OS in a heartbeat if they'd open up the hardware, and that has NOTHING to do with MS - it's their own stupid decision.

"I have Mame, and I have Genesis and Nintendo and DC emulations all running on the PC,"

You have to get ROMS and what not to do most of that emulation, it's not for the "mainstream". And you CANNOT at this time replace a DC with a PC. You tell me what DC games you play on your PC? PC's are NOT running DC games at full speed - Christ it's $55 at Target it ain't gonna break the bank. You can run most PS games on a PC fine ( you have been able to for years ), yet people STILL buy Playstations, why? Is it because the people emulating on PC aren't representative of the mainstream consumer? That would be my guess.

"and I guarntee you that after the XBOX is released you'll play those games on the PC at even better quality and speed."

Yea, when though? And are you gonna have to "warez" a 4GB DVD, and HOW are you gonna - for that matter? Am I gonna have to spend $500 in PC upgrades to emulate a $300 system? I'll tell you what - I'm looking forward to emulation ON the Xbox itself, as there is for the DC now.

Bottom line, the end consumer doesn't care ( or even know ) what's inside the console. They power it on, put in their Nascar or WWF game and the game plays. Period. They aren't going to be thinking "gee I could just get a new processor and graphics card and run these games on my PC" ( most run of the mill PC owners probably wouldn't even know how to do an upgrade, they'd have to spend another $1000+ dollars for a whole new PC ). You think I shouldn't get an Xbox because I could just emulate/run the games on my PC, well we'll find soon enough.

[d4n13l]

I read evry single word of that and would have to agree with most of it. Normally I ignore long posts but yours made sense.

The final paragraph was spot on:
"Bottom line, the end consumer doesn't care ( or even know ) what's inside the console. They power it on, put in their Nascar or WWF game and the game plays. Period. They aren't going to be thinking "gee I could just get a new processor and graphics card and run these games on my PC" ( most run of the mill PC owners probably wouldn't even know how to do an upgrade, they'd have to spend another $1000+ dollars for a whole new PC ). You think I shouldn't get an Xbox because I could just emulate/run the games on my PC, well we'll find soon enough."

Not that I like the Xbox or anything, but thats my decision as it is yours to buy one if you wish. Each to his own. The xbox is just $300 that I could spend elsewhere, thats all. It does have one initial obstacle: the PS2 is out and is becoming more established each day, M$ need to bring out the Xbox quick before PS2 pre-empts it. In this respect it already has a massive disadvantage compared to the PS2; Sony has a huge following already, an established consumer base. The Xbox has the heavy burden of proving itself in a very competitive market, it will be an awkward uphill struggle if it is to succeed.

[DVI]

"It does have one initial obstacle: the PS2 is out and is becoming more established each day, M$ need to bring out the Xbox quick before PS2 pre-empts it. In this respect it already has a massive disadvantage compared to the PS2; Sony has a huge following already, an established consumer base. The Xbox has the heavy burden of proving itself in a very competitive market, it will be an awkward uphill struggle if it is to succeed."

I agree 100%. For consumers to really WANT the Xbox ( PS2 owning / would-be owners ) MS has to show them graphics and gameplay well above and beyond the current PS2 crop, and unfortunately that isn't going to happen for a little while. Putting Munch's Oddysey in as the only playable demo ( although some places apparently have Dead or Alive 3 ) isn't going to cut it. Even DOA3, which is certainly impressive - isn't really impressive enough, imo. Some of the stuff being worked on RIGHT NOW for the Xbox will certainly be turning heads, but it needs to be released ASAP. The other thing is that most consumers don't really know that they will be able to buy Xbox versions of most of the top PS2 games ( Madden, SSX, Silent Hill, MGS, a Final Fantasy game (yet be announced) is coming, and even Sony's former mascot Crash Bandicoot will be on it ) I know it but most don't - MS's official site doesn't have 1/3 of the games being released even listed. Obviously the Sega hardcore's will probably get one ( if they haven't given up on gaming yet altogether ) but undoubtedly MS DOES have an uphill battle. However, I'm not yet convinced that the Nintendo GameCube will be a threat to either the PS2 OR Xbox, as I think it will have a totally different audience. Time will tell........

[mikeno9]

Ultimately for me it all comes to the games and what the system can do for me. Each system will have it's games that will make it more appealing to the public. In the end, technical aspects aside, companies aside, get the system that best suits your gaming needs.

[gambit32]

I couldn't help but add my two cents to this thread...I'm not sold on the Xbox or the Gamecube for that matter. I owned nothing but my PSone until recently when I bought my Dreamcast. I'm usually the last guy to buy any console after I see what it has to offer.
I'm not even sold on the PS2 yet. I can't justify spending that kind of cash on a gaming system when I need to buy an add-on to play burnt games. I don't need any additions to my DC to play any backup games (and believe me there are a TON of them out there) plus I can play movies on them, albeit not very well. I haven't even begun to go into NetBSD either. Mostly because I don't know crap about it.
I agree w/d4n13l said about most end users not being very hardware/software saavy. What's going to sell these consoles is smart marketing. I think most of the users of this board don't fall in the "not very saavy" group. But you ask the average kid on the street if he's going to buy the next console system and the answer is probably going to be a resounding yes. This is marketing at work.
So is the Xbox going to rock? Is the Gamecube going to rock? Who knows until they come out and the marketing smoke clears.
All I know is the only way I'm buying either system is when some ripping crew puts out some releases and I read recently that they are working on Xbox releases real soon.
Until then my DC kicks arse.

[Octagon]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-21 06:15:19, Sefy wrote:
Very mature answer Octagon, and i'll presume you are much better then me right ? you never "pirated" a single game in your entire life, or anything else for that matter of course, you are the simble of purety and justice and you bought every single piece of software you have.

You must be loaded, with something atleast.
I may be a "fool", but atleast i'm not twisting the truth.

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
Again when did I say i was innocent or pure? I pirate stuff all the time. I aint no saint and never said I was. I buy whatever system thats easiest to pirate on and has the most selection that isnt coming out on pc. Plain and simple.

[Vejita-sama]

I still think everyone is missing the key reason for success or failure in the gaming market. It's not the graphics but the actually games that matter. Look at Street Fighter II and SNES. People bought the SNES JUST to play SF2.

The PSX had FF7, resident evil, and a few others.

All the DC had is Soul Calibur.

If the xbox comes out with game/s that say "I have to buy the xbox just to play that" then it'll do well. Other wise it's DOA. I've been holding off on a PSX2 until Metal Gear Solid 2 comes out. Let's face facts, when this game is released in the US PSX2 sales are going to increase... a lot!

Graphics & sounds don't make the game, and the little kiddies don't really care as much as you think. It's the HS & college guys that want the super graphics, and they also want a good game/story/plot/play/etc to go with it.

[DVI]

"plus I can play movies on them, albeit not very well."

Actually.......

The Dreamcast now has an excellent VCD player available. It's software based but comes with an IR reciever and remote ( though on the cheap side ). Playback is EXCELLENT, full screen, 30 fps and perfectly synced audio, plus it has MP3 disc capabilities. The only problem is you have to buy it, unless the "dongle" protection gets removed. I bought it from http://www.playthegames.com for $35, it's a http://www.lik-sang.com for $30 + overseas shipping.

[DVI]

"All the DC had is Soul Calibur."

? You mean it was the only game that people wanted for graphics, or the only good game on DC? Because that's so very far from the truth..... The DC had / has many groundbreaking titles......

Crazy Taxi
Ecco
Shenmue
DOA 2
Virtua Tennis
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Metropolis Street Racer
Sega Bass Fishing
All the Sega Sports 2K series stuff
Jet Grind Radio
Powerstone
Daytona
Grandia II

that's just a few, I could go on.......

And not to mention emulating PS, NES, SNES, Master system, Genesis, playing MP3's, Video CD's etc.....

Can't do any of that with a PS2......

[Erwin]

"Since the XBox is mostly PC based it will no doubt have an IDE DVD-ROM drive so I bet CDR/CDRW will not be a problem."

The XBox will not and won't read CDRs period. They made it this way to avoid piracy. It also does not have an IDE DVD-ROM Drive.

"Arg, do you know that that system is targeted for 8 year old kids? They dont even have a teen rated game for launch, I think the first one comes out a month or two after launch"

That's what you get for thinking. Wrong. "Star Wars Rogue Leader II" has a TEEN rating. "Batman Vengence" has a TEEN rating. The system is NOT targeted towards 8 yr old kids. You have been brainwashed by too many people who stereo type Nintendo as a "kids" system when it's actually a system that targets everyone. Look at "Conker's Bad Fur Day", a Nintendo game with a MATURE rating that has cursing that would make South Park look like Sesame Street. What about "Perfect Dark" and "GoldenEye", both Nintendo games that are full of violence. Plus, Gamecube has an contract with CAPCOM to get "Resident Evil" games which is probably the most famous of all MATURE games. So, Get your facts straight dude.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Erwin on 2001-10-23 20:33:15 ]</font>

[mem_user]

All the system are really just pc's. They are just modified ones just like Xbox. They have memory, processors and hard drives. I have played with the Xbox and its rock solid. IMO, a little bit better the the PS II of which I have. And for whoever it was that said college+ gamers hate MS..well thats just plain wrong. Just because your little group of people dont like them, dont mean the other millions of users do.

[^404ErRoR^]

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The XBox will not and won't read CDRs period. They made it this way to avoid piracy. It also does not have an IDE DVD-ROM Drive.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I believe you are mistaken here. Look closely at the following: http://www.xboxmagonline.com/xbox/news/news_xboxmotherboard.html This is clearly a scan of a mag and appears to be legit. Clearly shows a marked IDE port (do you see any other bus connectors internal?). If this is the final setup, even if MS were to block playing of CDRs (is this possible while using standard dvd media, i don't think it is as CDRs can be read by even 1x drives and audio players that were made before CDR was even invented, and CDRs conform to all the same standards regular cds do), the fact that it uses an IDE bus would make it extremely easy to just yank the drive and throw in a new one for $50 or less, if you don't need DVD, an old CDROM should work fine...may need some modded firmware depending on bios in XBOX, no idea about that side of things. In any case MS would lose even more money on the actual console by either manufacturing their own (out of spec) drives for the XBOX, or making their own bus to use, than just using a standard PC mobo with built in IDE...hell it probably has an Intel i815 or something as the chipset, they may as well make use of it...I wouldn't be suprised if xbox is emulated within weeks of release, nothing is really different, OS is the same, API is the same...where's the issue...just a software layer needs to be emulated. Backups should be easy too...provided games are on standard cds rather than dvds, since we already know how to crack safedisc and the other protection methods that will likely be used.

Kinda off topic this post...but my opinion is that the console world is dead. PCs can do everything consoles can better, with more flexibility and a LOT more games. And they do a helluva lot more too...The only reason i've bought a console since the SNES was the PSOne for FF9, hopefully the rumors are correct and I won't have to buy a PS2 for FFX...

[Erwin]

"They have memory, processors and hard drives."

Processors? Yes
Hard drives? No

The XBox has a hard drive, but the PS2, GameCube, PS, Super NES, NES, Genesis, Dreamcast, and Saturn do not have hard drives. They use memory cards in it's place. Since the Gamecube does not have a DVD player, broadband modem, or hard drive, Nintendo can afford to sell it for $100 less. Nintendo has a clear advantage with their $199 price point this holiday season.

[Erwin]

"I believe you are mistaken here."

Yes, I am. I appreciate the effort; you have something to back your post which I admire. I wonder what size the hard drive is though? But we still don't know if any IDE DVD-ROM would work.

[JHebert]

It will have an 8GB hard drive, as shown in the motherboard image that ^404ErRoR^ linked to. The motherboard in the XBox is not an Intel 815, but is based on a chipset developed by NVidia which is very similar to the nForce chipset they recently released for the Athlon PC platform. It has CPU support for P3 instead of Athlon, and has integrated GeForce3 graphics instead of GeForce2MX like nForce, but in most respects they are similar. I'm sure it has IDE bus and probably USB and maybe even a PCI header for all I know. Maybe drive replacement and other hacks won't work, but then again maybe they will. We'll find out soon enough.

[Erwin]

DOES THIS LOOK LIKE GAMES FOR 8 YR OLD CHILDREN on the GAMECUBE