TMPGEnc 3.0 Beta in Japan

[jwedge]

check the site below for details

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.tmpgen...oc_whatis.html

[BJ_M]

some really interisting stuff there ...:

like for one:

DVD-Video standard was expanded "XDVD (eXtended DVD) mode" new loading
In order to record the information of long haul in 1 record type DVD media, DVD-Video standard part was expanded proposes new DVD-Video standard "XDVD".
With DVD-Video standard GOP (Group of Pictures) as for length the maximum of 18 frames it is stipulated, but long haul recording we achieved high picture quality with XDVD by compressing with GOP whose 60 frames or more is long. In addition we achieve also the playback compatibility where is high with the DVD prayer for national welfare at our company TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.5 whose playback compatibility is very high by authoring doing.

As a standard of practical level
720×480 (FULL D1 size) 4 hour images 2.0Mbps
352×480 (Half D1 size) 6 hour images 1.2Mbps
352×240 (Cif size) 10 hours or more image 750Kbps

[BJ_M]

this looks like the basic home version or (reading between the lines) - the sony version ..

a more advanced version must be in the pipeline down the road --

[mysticgohan17]

720×480 (FULL D1 size) 4 hour images 2.0Mbps

So basically SVCD bitrate with NTSC resolution? That kinda sucks, no?

[adam]

No because the GOPs are more than 3 times larger, which will increase quality substantially at a given bitrate. Mpeg encoding essentially breaks the pictures up into groups, where 1 frame stores the majority of the information and then the remaining frames in the GOP just add whatever changes and use that 1 frame (the I frame) to reconstruct the whole image. Basically, you use 1 frame to reconstruct the next 15 or so. With GOPs with 60 frames in them you would be using 1, or maybe 2 I frames to reconstruct the following 58 frames. So that's a huge amount of information that only has to be stored once rather than say, 3 or 4 times.

On highly compressible sources you probably could use low bitrates like 2mbits and still get results which look more like 4 or 5 mbits at standard GOPs.

But doesn't this put a huge strain on the decoder? Maybe on the buffer too? I mean non-standard GOPs have been implemented for as long as the various mpeg based standards have existed, but hardware compatibility hasn't really changed. I'm sure if I made such an XDVD and stuck it in my DVD player I would not get smooth or artifact free playback.

Unless I'm missing something? I'm not so fluent in Engrish.

[RabidDog]

but hardware compatibility hasn't really changed

but players certaINLY HAVE. I would wait and see .. most of their other stuff gets rave reviews, so maybe this will be a qualitative improvement. I personally would like to see them get into the MPeg4 market .. thats where the future lies.

[bugster]

Isn't this basically what KDVD is all about?

[Gazorgan]

KVCD 'works', why not KDVD? Hmmmm, KDVD in 1/2D1 could hit 8 hours per disk? Oh the possibilities......

At least TAD will let you use longer GOP's after a warning message. I didn't see anything about native AC3 support. Seems a shame to go KDVD but stick with MP2 audio doesn't it? Better quality with AC3/5.1 bitrates?

Gotta see what the 'Pro' version will do!

[BJ_M]

adding ac3 5:1 encoding support will make the price to high -- but having it as an option would be a good idea .. some software ac3 encoders (by themselves) are still being sold for $1000 apx.

[SatStorm]

This is simply a 'clever" marketing trick from TMPGenc team. It adds on a GUI, well known -x- technics, used on CDs and DVDs for years, with high success.

I want to see other implements on TMPGenc to upgrade to a later version. Like handling the colour in YUV2 colourspace (and not convert them to RGB each time it has to encode something), boost the encoding speed, implement 2 Pass VBR encodings (which after version 2.510 sucks compared the CQ ones!) and have better results with PAL / SECAM sources. A boost on the speed of the built in filters, would also be great.

I don't feel that TMPGenc move this way, and it is a shame...

[adam]

I agree. SatStorm. Well I don't necessarily think its a shame about the longer GOPs, just not something to get excited about.

RabidDog: I don't know if by players you mean the DVD players or the players in the market, ie: the manufacturers, but either way I disagree with you. I of course was talking about DVD players. We have the DVD standard for a reason and that's for uniformity and to set a bottom bar of minimum features which must be supported. The average DVD player will not support GOP sizes which are 3 times greater than required. Like I said, hardware compatibility of DVD players has not changed all that much over the years and that's why I don't see this being a viable option. If we were still stuck burning on cd media than stretching the limits of VCD and SVCD provided real opportunities. Now that we have single and soon dual layer DVDs, I really don't see the point.

Like SatStorm said, the quality improvements you can gain at lower bitrates by increasing GOP length have been known since the inception of mpeg...but they've never been widely used. That's because too many DVD players simply don't support it and this has never changed. Until commercial DVDs start utilizing extra long GOPs, there's no reason for hardware manufacturers to add this feature.

[bugster]

Like SatStorm said, the quality improvements you can gain at lower bitrates by increasing GOP length have been known since the inception of mpeg...but they've never been widely used. That's because too many DVD players simply don't support it and this has never changed. Until commercial DVDs start utilizing extra long GOPs, there's no reason for hardware manufacturers to add this feature.

And until DVD player hardware manufacturers add this feature commercial DVD's will not utilize it. Catch 22.

In fact, unless the standards setting body (DVD forum) add this as a required feature, its not going to happen (for the majority of cases anyway, you always get the oddball).

[RabidDog]

I was talking about dvd players, the hardware. Just a general observation that newer (and cheaper) devices seeem to be much more tolerant of both media and specs. Just more knowledge and feature creep on the part of mfr's. I would still like to see what this really consists of tho.

[Baldrick]

tmpgenc xpress 3.0 japanese version has been released
http://www.pegasys-inc.com/ja/press/04_0305.html

http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http://www.pegasys-inc....s/04_0305.html

[RabidDog]

advanced acoustic engine
windows media wmv9
video mastering engine
Xdvd G.O.P
And the best version will cost 11.340 (£70??) cheapest 5980 (£35 quid??)
with added liang-shan-po

£1=JPY200

[Baldrick]

some more screenshots(japanese though) and some video samples made with the new "xdvd" options here:
http://babelfish.altavista.com/babelfish/urltrurl?lp=ja_en&url=http://www.watch.impres...4/zooma147.htm

Tmpgenc xpress looks like a very good all-in-one tool for all us lazy peoples that want good video quality but don't want to use several tooools...

[tompika]

Well, I guess you can add a new playback feature to the DVD Player Report Form, then. Plays XDVD / Bitrate?

[tedhowe]

I missed this thread when it was first posted, but want to add some info to the long GOP issue.

I've been making DVDs from extracted video from by DirecTV/Tivo box.

DirecTV has been using extremely long GOPs for a long time ti improve the compression of their signal. Typical GOPs are 40-50 frames at least, and it is not uncommon to have a GOP that goes as long as 100+ frames.

I am able to take the extracted streams and put a LOT of time on a single DVD. I have been making Looney Tunes DVDs and typically can get 40 - 50 cartoons on a single DVD-R (about 4.5 - 5 hours). I also just put Angels in America on a single DVD-R (a bit less than 6 hours).

The quality of these is still very high - as high as DirecTV's broadcast quality. (I know it varies from channel to channel, and DTV does broadcast in 480x480, but it still looks great overall)

Anyway... as to GOP compatibility. I have 4 DVD players I've tested these discs with An old Pioneer DV-525, a 2003 Zenith XBV343 (combo DVD player/VCR). An AMW V-101 ($30 special from Circuit City) and the DVD entertainment system in our Minivan (Nissan Quest - I don't know who makes the player). The long GOP plays back fine in ALL of them. The only issue that i have on any of my players is the well known 480x480 resolution issue with the DV-525 (often encountered when people want to convert SVCD to DVDs).

On www.dealdatabase.com there is a forum dedicated to making DVDs from Tivo captures, and there is a thread with compatibility with various players. I would say that there are at least a hundred models from all different manufacturers (no-name as well as major brands) that work fine with these long GOP streams.

I would say that compatibility is much wider than many people think because the MPEG2 decoders in these chips are more flexible than just the DVD spec. MPEG2 has lots of things in it that are legal, that are outside of the DVD spec.

Personally, I am looking forward to long GOP as a way to extend the length of time I can record on DVD-R when I am encoding from my DV camcorder to a final MPEG2 file.

Ted