the beginning of the end for vcdhelp.com and TMPGEnc???

[thxkid]

I read in here where someone said you could buy a CD-R for $6, not in the US and the 9 gigs ones either, the 4.7 gigs at the cheap end is $10 and the 9 gigs are at the cheap end are $20, why pay $12-20 when I can buy the original for $17. Get real most stores never sold Phantom menace the 1st week for $27.95 they were all around $16.99 to $20.99.
Heck if you say DVD's sell for $30 well the cheaper to produce VHS sells for $20 and Disneys are $24.95. I hear no VHS people Bitchin about those prices why cause they don't pay that for them also just like the DVD's. get real people a list price is just a list price!

[vitualis]

True, but the Digital Millenium Act does not extend beyond the borders of the US. That is, neither it or any precidents set in common law apply outside of the US (e.g., decss is not illegal in countries apart from the US).

The spirit of the treaty is for recognition of intellectual property rights across the world. That is, the idea that music or videos made in one country, should not be copied in another without royalties given to the original author.

It is up to the various countries to implement and interpret this as they see fit.

The legalities of copying digital media (e.g., DVDs) for home use is not defined in most countries. Many countries would have a "fair use" provision already (e.g., taping songs off the radio or taping TV broadcasts onto VHS is not illegal -- at least, not a chargable offense). An obvious extension to existing legislation would suggest that ripping a DVD for home use should be of the same category. Although this may not be the case in the US, the specifics of ripping a DVD has not be tested legally outside of the US that I know of.

BTW, thanks for the links.

Regards.

_________________
Michael Tam

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: vitualis on 2001-10-23 14:03:30 ]</font>

[Reggie]

Having read the article that started this thread, I fail to see where in the article it mentions doing anything illegal?

So, why should anyone think that there is anything illegal about Vcdhelp.com or Tmpgenc?

And as for the DVD rip section, well, I might have a digital Camera, and encoded a DVD disc for myself with my own material, it's the only copy that I have, but my Dad needs a copy, but, shock horror, he doesn't own a DVD, but he does have a CDRom on a PC, so, the information that is there would be damn helpful on how to get the data back off the disc onto my PC to make into VCD, absolutely nothing illegal in that!

As for there being a plant around here, Well, I am new, and I did ask about VCD on PS2, but don't you think that who ever it was, would have got all of their facts correct and actually tried to be a little more informative and explain some of the pitfalls?

I think that maybe the guy has a genuine interest in doing what he describes, but maybe doesn't know as much as he has been given credit for? For example:

"Any CD-R or CD-RW drive will do to create the discs, but if you plan to play them back right off the CD, you'll want a 32x or faster CD reader."

Hmmmn, and there was me watching a SVCD on a quad speed drive only the other day!

He also doesn't metion VBR data rates or the actual time length, or different screen resolutions (480x576) that you can squeeze onto a disc, he just points you in the direction of the information.

There is another part of the article where he says:
"Tip: You may wish to divide long video segments into shorter clips before you encode. That way you can test one of the resulting files without waiting forever, and you can skip from segment to segment on your finished VCD."

He forgets the fact that most VCD's cut this way will pause or jump between chapters.

[jeex]

kidkurrupt,

hehe. shocan said that shit like a commando. he's a funny man.

i dont really like vcd for movies, just for porn clips i burn to vcd.

divx is my way of "backing up" my movies. you just get so much better quality as opposed to vcd or svcd..

and i dont wanna hear any crap about vcd or svcd being better, or i'm doing it wrong or something.. like i said "divx is MY way".

and i'm sure there will be a standalone capable of playing divx movies in the future.. a standalone of some sort.. maybe xbox or something.. something will come around eventually. and that will be the stake in the heart of vcd & svcd.


yes.. that day will come.. vcd & svcd's days are numbered.. vcd & svcd will be like betamax

divx is still evolving, growing, and getitng better.. vcd & svcd has reached its peak & its limits..

its time to die old man, you reign of terror has come to an end

[vitualis]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-24 01:00:40, jeex wrote:
and i'm sure there will be a standalone capable of playing divx movies in the future.. a standalone of some sort.. maybe xbox or something.. something will come around eventually. and that will be the stake in the heart of vcd & svcd.</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I doubt it. DivX will remain a PC format and if a stand-alone ever did come out (say with Xbox), it will only be for enthusiasts.

VCDs is a multimillion dollar industry world-wide -- just about everyone in Asia has a stand-alone player capable of playing them in Asia (i.e., they are as ubiquitous as VHS).

The thing that will kill VCD/SVCD eventually is DVD and a recordable DVD format.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
yes.. that day will come.. vcd & svcd's days are numbered.. vcd & svcd will be like betamax</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I would say the older DivX codec could be like betamax as the newer open source one develops and grows.

Regards.

[shochan]

DivX blows moohahahahaha! just build your own divix player with an old 500 mobo and a dvdrom and a realmagic hollywood plus card, it plays them and has athe best tv out I have ever seen. anyways who cares about all this mess any more. I have turned my attention and $245 ( for the wintvpvr) to capturing enterprise.

how do you convert flash to avi? i see crap about actionscript but i cant seem to find it.

[dphirschler]

Anyone who reads the FAQ can gather that information. It didn't take me long to know that stuff and I am as green as they come.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Extended formats (XVCD and SXVCD) aren't true
standards, just discs with the directory structure
of VCD or SVCD that contain video files encoded
at 720 by 480. XVCD uses MPEG-1 compression,
while SXVCD uses MPEG-2, giving it the same
resolution and compression scheme as DVD video.
Only a few stand-alone DVD players play these
discs, which contain as little as 10 to 15 minutes
of video. You can play them back on all computers
using a software DVD player.
"
note the SXVCD and XVCD, sounds like it came
from this site. This was no newbie. For all we know,
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[dphirschler]

I made my first VCD from a DVD rip (The Iron Giant). I would not have bought my capture card if I had been unsucessful in making a decent VCD. For me, that was fair use. I am not selling the thing, just learning from it.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Regarding ripping guides: Knowledge isnt illegal as far as I know. Then there is freedom of speech.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[d4n13l]

You could learn good business skills if you did sell them though, LOL! Become a pirater and learn all about supply and demand, profit margins and business strategy.

[dabar101]

OK so here is my question...
Is it OK in the USA to rent a DVD and make a copy for home use?

[tigerwolf]

well legally no, but legally you can't rent a vhs movie and copy it either, or rent a game and make a copy. You are only given "personal fair use" rights if you actually purchased the product.

though here is an interesting theoretical concept, if you broadcast the playing of the video via broadcasting equipment and then record it from that broadcast, does that mean it now falls under the off-air clause? LOL

oh, vitualis, very true that the dmca does not extent beyond the borders of us territories, but I have noted in the past that sometimes the US has a tendency to utilize treaties to sort of push their concept or ideals. And justify it by quoting something in the treaty.

you are welcome on the links.

have a great day,
tw


<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-24 15:48:04, dabar101 wrote:
OK so here is my question...
Is it OK in the USA to rent a DVD and make a copy for home use?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[rasch]

" ... sheep, mere sheep ..."

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-18 23:39:33, shochan wrote:
I just read that copying dvd's even if you own them is illegal and violates copyright laws.

http://www.mpaa.org/Press/DVD_FAQ.htm
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

When I read this article I saw nowhere where it said that making copies of your own DVD's is illegal. I did see that there are lawsuits in action trying to make that true, however. The 'companies' are targetting the coders of the DeCSS software ... which I don't think will work. It was obvious to me that this article is just propaganda put in a format to approximate something factual in the hopes people read it and adopt it as fact.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
If you read down in the article you get to this.

Q: If I can make an audiocassette copy of a CD, or a VHS copy of a television broadcast, why shouldn’t I be able to make a copy of a DVD that I own?

A: Copyright law and the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1984 "Betamax" decision provide for "fair use" of copyrighted material. For example, scholars and critics can quote lines from a book in a review without fear of incurring copyright liability. Or, a soap opera fan can tape an over the air TV show during the day to watch later that night — under the Betamax decision, an unscrambled broadcast can be copied for this type of "time shift" personal use.

BUT "fair use" is not an open-ended concept. It does not justify any action an individual may take with a copyrighted work, whether they have purchased the copy or not. It is a right to use what is available, not a right of access to works for fair use purposes. For example, the law has always recognized that a show sent by scrambled pay-per-view signal may not be viewed or copied through the use of an unauthorized, illegal descrambler. The owner of the signal has – and has always had -- a legal right to scramble the signal to prevent unauthorized access to the signal for viewing or to make copies of the show.

Most importantly, this concept of fair use does not override specific statutory enactment such as the DMCA, which are intended by Congress to give clear protection to the rights of the creative community to use technological means to protect its product. It is this protection which has enabled the motion picture industry to launch new products in digital format, such as DVDs
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Nowhere in thier answer did they even illude to the FACT that you can't make copies of your DVD's. What they DID say was that the creative community has the right to try and prevent it with whatever means they deem fit.

They drew an analogy between copying DVD's you've purchased and stealing cable. Quite incorrectly though. When you pay for cable you have the right to tape whatever you like as long as you don't show it later and charge a fee of some kind. The same goes for tapes, lp's, making MP3 files of CD's you've purchased, etc. Taking something without paying is stealing. The article itself states this very clearly. It does, though, have a tendency to prime the "Answers" with "loaded" questions.

They also drew an analogy between this DVD decoder software (DeCSS) and making equipment to break into your home .... ummmm, IT EXISTS! Electronic lock picks come to mind; about $150 last I checked. You can even BUY the cool little tool to slip into your car door to unlock it. Although newer cars don't work that way as much.

This brings up the concept of the "grey market". It's perfectly legal to sell and purchase cable descambling equipment. However, to use it to steal cable brings a pretty heafty penalty.

The great USA justice system made a call quite some time ago, of which I can't quote, that basically stated that the manner in which you use something is more important thatn that something. I have a gun (an HK .45 auto that I think is very cool) that I target shoot with. The gun is not illegal and the gun doesn't kill anyone. If I point that gun at Mr. boB and kill him ... _I_ have killed Mr. boB. Same goes for if I were to run Mr. boB over with my car, or kill him with a bat, or a knife ... you get the idea.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
So if I were baldrick I would ditch the dvd rip section for the time being. Just a suggestion.

Shochan
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm of the mind that DVD ripping is a valid a topic as any. We, as a computer community, may want to communicate properly to people regarding the term "ripping" though. The general lay-person may start to think that ALL ripping is bad and illegal ....

Kinda reminds of the unfortunate blackeye us hackers have ...

[shochan]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-25 03:23:24, rasch wrote:
" ... sheep, mere sheep ..."

When I read this article I saw nowhere where it said that making copies of your own DVD's is illegal. I did see that there are lawsuits in action trying to make that true, however. The 'companies' are targetting the coders of the DeCSS software ... which I don't think will work. It was obvious to me that this article is just propaganda put in a format to approximate something factual in the hopes people read it and adopt it as fact.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
If you read down in the article you get to this.

Q: If I can make an audiocassette copy of a CD, or a VHS copy of a television broadcast, why shouldn’t I be able to make a copy of a DVD that I own?

A: Copyright law and the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1984 "Betamax" decision provide for "fair use" of copyrighted material. For example, scholars and critics can quote lines from a book in a review without fear of incurring copyright liability. Or, a soap opera fan can tape an over the air TV show during the day to watch later that night — under the Betamax decision, an unscrambled broadcast can be copied for this type of "time shift" personal use.

BUT "fair use" is not an open-ended concept. It does not justify any action an individual may take with a copyrighted work, whether they have purchased the copy or not. It is a right to use what is available, not a right of access to works for fair use purposes. For example, the law has always recognized that a show sent by scrambled pay-per-view signal may not be viewed or copied through the use of an unauthorized, illegal descrambler. The owner of the signal has – and has always had -- a legal right to scramble the signal to prevent unauthorized access to the signal for viewing or to make copies of the show.

Most importantly, this concept of fair use does not override specific statutory enactment such as the DMCA, which are intended by Congress to give clear protection to the rights of the creative community to use technological means to protect its product. It is this protection which has enabled the motion picture industry to launch new products in digital format, such as DVDs
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Nowhere in thier answer did they even illude to the FACT that you can't make copies of your DVD's. What they DID say was that the creative community has the right to try and prevent it with whatever means they deem fit.

They drew an analogy between copying DVD's you've purchased and stealing cable. Quite incorrectly though. When you pay for cable you have the right to tape whatever you like as long as you don't show it later and charge a fee of some kind. The same goes for tapes, lp's, making MP3 files of CD's you've purchased, etc. Taking something without paying is stealing. The article itself states this very clearly. It does, though, have a tendency to prime the "Answers" with "loaded" questions.

They also drew an analogy between this DVD decoder software (DeCSS) and making equipment to break into your home .... ummmm, IT EXISTS! Electronic lock picks come to mind; about $150 last I checked. You can even BUY the cool little tool to slip into your car door to unlock it. Although newer cars don't work that way as much.

This brings up the concept of the "grey market". It's perfectly legal to sell and purchase cable descambling equipment. However, to use it to steal cable brings a pretty heafty penalty.

The great USA justice system made a call quite some time ago, of which I can't quote, that basically stated that the manner in which you use something is more important thatn that something. I have a gun (an HK .45 auto that I think is very cool) that I target shoot with. The gun is not illegal and the gun doesn't kill anyone. If I point that gun at Mr. boB and kill him ... _I_ have killed Mr. boB. Same goes for if I were to run Mr. boB over with my car, or kill him with a bat, or a knife ... you get the idea.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
So if I were baldrick I would ditch the dvd rip section for the time being. Just a suggestion.

Shochan
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

I'm of the mind that DVD ripping is a valid a topic as any. We, as a computer community, may want to communicate properly to people regarding the term "ripping" though. The general lay-person may start to think that ALL ripping is bad and illegal ....

Kinda reminds of the unfortunate blackeye us hackers have ...

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Well here we go...

You make a valid point I can see how this is propaganda and it could not be illegal at all. But in that case then why did that kid and his dad get in trouble or arrested, I dont remimber, for breaking the code, it is the same reason that makes hacking illegal it is illegal to break the code. Not that I give a shit tho. You do not own the rights to the encryption you are not allowed to change it or deviate from its origional intention. But is it illegal to use the rippers that break the code? Who knows and who cares again.

No offense but I wonder why "You Hackers" have that sterotype, Hummmm.... probably because a very few use there megar computer skills to hack into some website and vandalize it, destroying some ones property for fun , I know hackers who do that are very few. But because of them "they" have a bad rep.

So if your a hacker what are people that rip dvds... Rippers? I capture shows off of cable what should we call folks like that capturers. The name sterotypes it all, by calling yourself a Hacker it only sets you up to be prejudged.

Your the sheep for allowing yourself to be labeled. Sad very freakin sad. "us hackers"... and you call me a sheep.

Get a life.

[Beretta]

Well of course not. When you copy something you don't even own, you can't even make the "one backup" argument.

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-24 15:48:04, dabar101 wrote:
OK so here is my question...
Is it OK in the USA to rent a DVD and make a copy for home use?
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[susie]

Well said.





<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: susie on 2001-11-04 05:31:44 ]</font>

[vitualis]

susie,

DO NOT quote someone's entire post if all you are doing is going to write two words!!

As for ripping DVDs, I think if it ever goes before a court in the US, it would be found illegal (even if you OWN the DVD).

The question is not the copying of the DVD itself for any particular use, but rather, circumventing the digital protection methods on the DVD (which was one of the things made illegal by Digital Millenium Act?

This is why DeCSS is illegal.

I hope you Americans realise that you are quickly LOSING your rights. Record companies and movie studios are using technological impediments (and now legal protection of those impediments) to prevent copying, even if it would fall under the "fair use" provisions (e.g., backing up something you own).

Regards.

[susie]

Americans are not the only people to lose their rights.
The U.S law applies to every country in the world.
I am sure it is also illegal to make backup copies in Australia, right ?

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-04 02:28:18, vitualis wrote:

I hope you Americans realise that you are quickly LOSING your rights.

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: susie on 2001-11-04 05:33:19 ]</font>

[vitualis]

No, no, no!!!

American laws do not apply to ANY other country apart from the USA.

If it is illegal to copy a DVD in Australia (e.g.) then it is because it is illegal under Australian law, definitely NOT American law.

This is what I mentioned before. The DMCA is applicable only under the US. Most of the rest of the world doesn't really have (yet) similar legislation. Most of the world DOES have fair use provisions to existing copyright laws and presumable they would apply to DVD as well (e.g., backup up a DVD I own).

Regards.

[alkieman]

Exactly virtualis, well said.

Although the copyright notices try and tell you otherwise, it is actually legal to make a backup copy of a software product you own, including videos and DVDs. It's when you pass them on you are technically breaking the law. There are even differences within the UK. In Scotland you have to be shown to be making some kind of commercial gain from the act. In other words, you are unlikely to be prosecuted for passing copies to friends, but if you were to charge them a small fee then you would likely face charges. Another factor here in Europe is the Human Rights Act. It would be easy for an individual to argue that it is within his human rights to protect products he buys by making a copy or two. Weird but true.

[alkieman]

P.S. I was referring to the UK in my last post by the way.


and..

There's an article in one of this months UK computer magazines that explains how to use Smartripper to rip audio from a DVD.

[monsoon01]

hey, will u look at that, i was semi right, the site was down because too many people were on, with stuff like this i hate being "right". but the sight is back up now, so yay! ;

[jwhitlow]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-23 05:29:05, aguillon wrote:
I do think that there is a true bunch of people out there (me included) who do use the information provided here for backup purposes.
I own a lot of (expensive) Disney cartoon DVDs for my daughter. As you well know, children very quickly learn how to use the players and put the disks in. However, they do drop them on the floor, scratch them or lose them... For that reason, the DVDs are locked away and she is given VCD copies. She can trash them as much as she wants. Any parent on this list knows what I m talking about.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>
I think that your use of DeCSS is superb! When DVDs were first released, I wondered why they did not do for them what they did for the 3.5" floppy. The old 5.25 floppy disk required you to put it back in it's protective cover when not in the drive and the media was exposed when outside the driver or cover. The 3.5 floppy comes in it's own protective shell. I think they decided not to do this for the evolution from CD to DVD for financial reasons. It is a win-win situation for them. It makes producing the media less expensive & it requires anyone who does not treat a frequently used disc like fine china to replace it after a period of time. Since it is the software you bought and not the hardware, there should be a law that requires the distributor to take in your damaged disc and replace it with a new one at cost plus a small (regulated) transaction fee.

[jwhitlow]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-11-04 06:08:41, vitualis wrote:
American laws do not apply to ANY other country apart from the USA.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

True, the law does not apply, but the influence can. See the story:
http://www.cdrinfo.com/#newsitem1005775453,27819,

The part of main interest is:

The UK doesnt seem to have something similar to DMCA but CloneCD author believes: "...I am not a law expert, but the UK has close relations to the US and I was advised to leave out these options for the UK. Better safe than sorry...".

[Graham Meredith]

What's a PS2?