the beginning of the end for vcdhelp.com and TMPGEnc???

[monsoon01]

ok, i just read the november issue of 'computer shopper' and one of the main articles was 'The Video CD Revolution' it specifically talks about this site and TMPGEnc, i've seen this happen before and then everything goes to hell(aka napster and other file sharing programs), hope that they realize this site is for backups and doesnt support any illegal activities, cause without this site i'd be lost. hope the site doesnt get too many new newbies asking dumb questions and lets also hope that TMPGEnc stays free and good forever.

[Truman]

Let 'em ask dump questions again and again. This is a VCD help site.
The only thing, that kill a web site sooner or later, are warez and crack requests. Don't tolerate it.

[Kdiddy]

Too late, already happening on both accounts.

[Stinky]

monsoon01 / kdiddy ?!?

we don't do anything illegal - we don't trade files - we don't crack / hack anything.

the end isn't near

ps is that article online ? I'd like to read it.

[monsoon01]

i didnt say that anything illegal was going on here, i said "hope that they realize this site is for backups and doesnt support any illegal activities" and i will look to see if i can find it online and give u the link, man i hate my 56k

p.s. it gets annoying seeing the same stupid questions over and over again cause people are to lazy to search the forums (ie: VCD on PS2)

[shochan]

I just read that copying dvd's even if you own them is illegal and violates copyright laws.

http://www.mpaa.org/Press/DVD_FAQ.htm
If you read down in the article you get to this.

Q: If I can make an audiocassette copy of a CD, or a VHS copy of a television broadcast, why shouldn’t I be able to make a copy of a DVD that I own?

A: Copyright law and the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1984 "Betamax" decision provide for "fair use" of copyrighted material. For example, scholars and critics can quote lines from a book in a review without fear of incurring copyright liability. Or, a soap opera fan can tape an over the air TV show during the day to watch later that night — under the Betamax decision, an unscrambled broadcast can be copied for this type of "time shift" personal use.

BUT "fair use" is not an open-ended concept. It does not justify any action an individual may take with a copyrighted work, whether they have purchased the copy or not. It is a right to use what is available, not a right of access to works for fair use purposes. For example, the law has always recognized that a show sent by scrambled pay-per-view signal may not be viewed or copied through the use of an unauthorized, illegal descrambler. The owner of the signal has – and has always had -- a legal right to scramble the signal to prevent unauthorized access to the signal for viewing or to make copies of the show.

Most importantly, this concept of fair use does not override specific statutory enactment such as the DMCA, which are intended by Congress to give clear protection to the rights of the creative community to use technological means to protect its product. It is this protection which has enabled the motion picture industry to launch new products in digital format, such as DVDs


So if I were baldrick I would ditch the dvd rip section for the time being. Just a suggestion.

Shochan

[alucard2050]

is it possible to play vcd's on a ps2? HE HE HE, just kidding...... i would think that filtering out questions about crackz and warez would be extreamly hard. i mean, how can you control what someone asks here? the only thing you can do is sit and monitor it all day and as soon as you see something that doesn't belong then send it to "A GALAXY FAR FAR AWAY". i would think that as long as the owners of this site have the rules posted for all to see and make the attempts to filter out inapropriate questions, then there is no case against them. or does any of that matter??

[zeppage2]

Here's the article

http://www.zdnet.com/products/stories/reviews/0,4161,2812448,00.html

[Greg12]

but under fair use, whatever the purchaser does with the product is beyond the control of the content owner provided the owner does not violate any laws.

or that's how i read it.

also i have read federal laws that say you are entitled to one backup copy of anything you buy.

surly the mpaa cannot take away a right gaurenteed to us by federal law.

i've also read that some senators do not approve of the digital millium copy right act.

i think that if their was no mpaa, movies would be cheaper.

i know it does not cost 30 us dollars to mass-produce a dvd disk when dvd-r sells for 6 us dollars a piece.

when will they see that if u bring down prices, you will bring down piricy.

i would pay 10 dollars for a movie, but 30 is to much.

if anyone ever invents a truley mp3 style video compression, i'm sure the mpaa will sue their heads off.


actually, i wóuldn't mind paying 20 or 30 dollars for tmpg. it's a good program and i wouldn't mind funding future upgrades.


<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: Greg12 on 2001-10-19 00:21:04 ]</font>

[monsoon01]

i dont think baldrick should drop the DVDrip section, cause if he did that he'd have to loose lots of other things on this site, can u really get in trouble for guiding sum1 how to backup a DVD, this site can be accessed anywhere in the world, and in sum countries it is legal to make backup copies of DVDs. he shouldnt have to drop a section cause 1 coutries laws say u cant even back up a copy of sumthing u have paid for.

[Vejita-sama]

If you read the article (which isn't that good) the only ref to vcdhelp.com is:
<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Tip: To test-drive compatibility before you go to the trouble of digitizing and editing video, consider using a downloaded sample to burn your discs. VCDHelp (Web site) includes free samples of all the standard formats, which can also be handy for testing your system's video-playback capabilities.
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

The article doesn't really talk about DVD ripping so much as backing up home movies. Now the MPAA can and will do anything and everything to stop privates, but it's not that easy. For eg look at Napster. Different groups spend a LOT of time/money to close it down, but it didn't even make a dent in the amount of MP3s on the net. Besides Disney most groups only attack people that trade material, not knowledge.

[vhelp]

My two cents worth . . . I smell conspericy here!

In reading halfway through this article, the only thing
I could come up with is this --> we have a spy among
our mist!!!! Plain and simple. That is, this person
had learn all this stuff by visiting this site and actually
using the methods (guides, and poeples posts, etc)
for his/her article.

I mean, look at the statement where the writer states,
in the following paragraph:
"
Extended formats (XVCD and SXVCD) aren't true
standards, just discs with the directory structure
of VCD or SVCD that contain video files encoded
at 720 by 480. XVCD uses MPEG-1 compression,
while SXVCD uses MPEG-2, giving it the same
resolution and compression scheme as DVD video.
Only a few stand-alone DVD players play these
discs, which contain as little as 10 to 15 minutes
of video. You can play them back on all computers
using a software DVD player.
"
note the SXVCD and XVCD, sounds like it came
from this site. This was no newbie. For all we know,
this perpitrator was probably the one asking all
those rediculous questions, "hi, I'm a newbie", or
"can I play vcd on a PS2?". This charactor not only
wanted to write an article, but also wnated to learn
how to make vcd/svcd for himself/herself. That's
double duty!!

This writer had nothing better for his/her editorial
so he/she came here (to pick on us) and try and
spoil/taint a good site.

I say, just ignore all this nonance and more on!
..."I had a VIC-20, can I watch vcd's on this?" he, he...

[Kdiddy]

"monsoon01 / kdiddy ?!?

we don't do anything illegal - we don't trade files - we don't crack / hack anything."

Stop jummping to conclusions & reading more into it, never said you or this site did.....I was referring to these quotes

"The only thing, that kill a web site sooner or later, are warez and crack requests."

"hope the site doesnt get too many new newbies asking dumb questions"

to which I answered, both things happen already all the time, look through most recents posts.

[Balddick]

VCDhelp rules!!!
VCDHELP should never get rid off DVDRip section !!!
Who cares about those who dislike the idea of backing up DVD movies ?

Long live VCDHELP.com

If you don't like this site then LEAVE !!!!!

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-18 23:39:33, shochan wrote:
I just read that copying dvd's even if you own them is illegal and violates copyright laws.

http://www.mpaa.org/Press/DVD_FAQ.htm
If you read down in the article you get to this.

Q: If I can make an audiocassette copy of a CD, or a VHS copy of a television broadcast, why shouldn’t I be able to make a copy of a DVD that I own?

A: Copyright law and the U.S. Supreme Court’s 1984 "Betamax" decision provide for "fair use" of copyrighted material. For example, scholars and critics can quote lines from a book in a review without fear of incurring copyright liability. Or, a soap opera fan can tape an over the air TV show during the day to watch later that night — under the Betamax decision, an unscrambled broadcast can be copied for this type of "time shift" personal use.

BUT "fair use" is not an open-ended concept. It does not justify any action an individual may take with a copyrighted work, whether they have purchased the copy or not. It is a right to use what is available, not a right of access to works for fair use purposes. For example, the law has always recognized that a show sent by scrambled pay-per-view signal may not be viewed or copied through the use of an unauthorized, illegal descrambler. The owner of the signal has – and has always had -- a legal right to scramble the signal to prevent unauthorized access to the signal for viewing or to make copies of the show.

Most importantly, this concept of fair use does not override specific statutory enactment such as the DMCA, which are intended by Congress to give clear protection to the rights of the creative community to use technological means to protect its product. It is this protection which has enabled the motion picture industry to launch new products in digital format, such as DVDs


So if I were baldrick I would ditch the dvd rip section for the time being. Just a suggestion.

Shochan
</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

[marsmayhem]

Uhm... I can't play VCDs on my PS/2 Largely cause I don't have one, but anyway...

Seriously, to ignore the wealth of legitimate material at this site would be sad. We've all learnt a lot, and a lot of folks do make VCDs of their own stuff. Vcdhelp.com is such a knowledge base (if people bother to read forums properly instead of asking questions before some basic research, but I digress), I hope it never shuts down. I for one have learnt so much here, and to everyone who organizes and contributes to the site, I give a heartfelt thanks.

Cheers!!!

[d4n13l]

Regarding home copying: Does anybody know someone who has been prosecuted for home copying?
Regarding ripping guides: Knowledge isnt illegal as far as I know. Then there is freedom of speech.

[TIbrO]

d4n13l, you need to get back on ICQ to resume the transfer!
Damnit, man!
It's gonna take you weeks to get it if you're never online!

[Faceman101]

You can do anything you want with something you own. You can do anything you want with something for personal use.

No if ands or buts, that is the law. Applys to everything, don't argue with it. Backing up DVDs is fine, renting and copying is fine. Rent, copy, and sell? Fine/jail. That is the law and it makes perfect sense and I stand by it.

[Throbbin Sausage]

You can play VCDs on a PS2 !!!

[mh2360]

Tmpgenc is an mpeg encoder, you cannot crack DVDs with it, they can't touch it. It's the apps like DVDdecrypter and Smartripper we have to worry about. Even if they somehow ban these, so many people have a copy of one or both of these, that they will be floating around on the net for years. Besides, the big games companies have tried their best to stop emulators and roms floating around the web and they have so far failed...

[shochan]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
On 2001-10-19 10:22:36, Balddick wrote:
VCDhelp rules!!!
VCDHELP should never get rid off DVDRip section !!!
Who cares about those who dislike the idea of backing up DVD movies ?

Long live VCDHELP.com

If you don't like this site then LEAVE !!!!!

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

First off shut the hell up.

Second If it is persued by authorties I bet it will go away.

Third Half of you people that say you backup your own dvds are probable full of shite.

And before you guys start defending our rights and protesting I think you should at least skim the digital millinum act and read about "fair use" for your self besides taking other peoples words on things. I my self have started to skim across it and read interesting things.

http://www.loc.gov/copyright/legislation/hr2281.pdf

Sec. 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use

Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -

(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether
such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit
educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in
relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or
value of the copyrighted work. The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the above factors.

Again I stress "reproduction in copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting, teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use), scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright."

So I really doubt that backing up your dvds falls under any of those above, and dont even try to say that it is educational at all that is bullshite.

Im not against backing up dvds or anything im just tired of people screaming "fair use" when they have no clue what the section even talks about. If your gonna infringe copyright laws then at least me man or woman enough to admit it.

[aguillon]

I do think that there is a true bunch of people out there (me included) who do use the information provided here for backup purposes.
I own a lot of (expensive) Disney cartoon DVDs for my daughter. As you well know, children very quickly learn how to use the players and put the disks in. However, they do drop them on the floor, scratch them or lose them... For that reason, the DVDs are locked away and she is given VCD copies. She can trash them as much as she wants. Any parent on this list knows what I m talking about.

[jeex]

wow, i never knew shocan was "THE tmpge man".. i feel like i know a celebrity now, sorta..

but man, he's mean "First off shut the hell up."

i do like his program though, it converts all my porno clips in to vcd compatible mpeg files.

thanks shocan!

[tigerwolf]

actually there are various forms of "fair use". The type we are referring to here is that of personal fair use. Which allows for copying and does not give the copyright holder exclusive rights to his copyright in this manner. The main purpose of copyrights is for public use. Therefore If I make a backup of a movie either to play in another room or to play instead of my purchased material it is perfectly acceptable. The violation of copyright law comes when the works are distributed publicly.

Which means that ripping a dvd is perfectly legal, distributing that rip across the internet is illegal.

its the same reason universal lost this case:
Sony Corp. v. Universal City Studios , 464 U.S. 417 (1984)

On the other hand, the manipulation of a protection scheme and distribution of a product that is solely designed to remove a protection scheme is illegal, but here again there are exceptions such as for library use to determine if they wish the works, but they can only use it for a reasonable time to make their decision.

Given that the "Digital Millennium Copyright Act" does not negate any existing copyright laws, that a person that does not intend to distribute their backup to the public, could legally make a backup of the material that has the encryption scheme on it as long as the original copy is still available for proof of purchase. Of course this also means you can't rip a dvd then sell the dvd, this would be a violation of the copyright laws, unless of course you destroyed the backup before selling the dvd or provided it with the dvd upon sale. Though I believe in this case you are only allowed to have one backup of the purchased merchandise.

anyway, here is some info to sift through:
http://www.usg.edu/admin/legal/copyright/

though there is much more then is represented in the above site, it does cover things in a fairly thorough manner.

have a lovely day,
TW

[tigerwolf]

also as far as "the beginning of the end for vcdhelp.com and tmpgenc" well tmpgenc is not designed to crack any protection schemes and therefore is in no way violating any copyright laws. vcdhelp is distributing information and/or knowledge and therefore is not violating any laws. The only real sticky area that vcdhelp may get into is not the forums or distribution of knowledge, but housing or distributing the software that is specifically designed to remove protection schemes. Yet I don't believe that I have seen any software that is stored on this site that is designed specifically to remove protection schemes, nor have I seen any links directly to such files.

so the answer to your question is no we haven't seen the end of either.

TTFN,
TW

[vitualis]

From my understanding of the Digital Millenium Act (and I could completely wrong... ), the act of copying the digital data off a medium (such as DVD) and the circumvention of the copy protection for this purpose may well be illegal.

However, this will probably have to tried in court on a case by case basis (e.g., decss is illegal but no one has moved in on DVD Decrypter or Smartripper).

This, however, revolves about the ACTION of copying a DVD only. I fail to see how writing about it is illegal in any way. For example, MURDER is definitely illegal... but a book detailing how to perform a murder (e.g., many crime fiction novels) is not.

In the same way, the DVD ripping section of this site is probably safe.

As for TMPGEnc, it is just a MPEG encoder -- that's not illegal in any shape or form.

Furthermore, may I remind you that the world is a BIG place. The Digital Millenium Act is only applicable to the US and there certainly hasn't been similar legislation passed over most of the world.

Regards.

[shochan]

Like I said there are a few that do do it that way, but you my friend are one of the very few. Before my DVD drive broke I would rent or borrow them and copy the shit out of them. I did mess with my own, but only because I was bored. But now its gone and im stuck getting them elseware.


vitualis
QUOTE:
Furthermore, may I remind you that the world is a BIG place. The Digital Millenium Act is only applicable to the US and there certainly hasn't been similar legislation passed over most of the world.

True.

jeex I didn't write it I just know just about everything about it. Well at least I think I do.

[jeex]

shocan,

do you know Hiroyuki Hori?

[kidkurrupt]

jeex, that shit was funny up there what you posted man.. "first off shut the hell up" lol like a commando or something

[tigerwolf]

<TABLE BORDER=0 ALIGN=CENTER WIDTH=85%><TR><TD><font size=-1>Quote:</font><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR><TR><TD><FONT SIZE=-1><BLOCKQUOTE>
Furthermore, may I remind you that the world is a BIG place. The Digital Millenium Act is only applicable to the US and there certainly hasn't been similar legislation passed over most of the world.

</BLOCKQUOTE></FONT></TD></TR><TR><TD><HR size=1 color=black></TD></TR></TABLE>

Actually the DMCA was the United States enactment of the WIPO copyright treaty, "WIPO COPYRIGHT TREATY adopted by the Diplomatic Conference on December 20, 1996"

check out:
http://www.wipo.org/treaties/ip/index.html

a non-profit organization that fights for our freedoms:
http://www.eff.org

Anyone that owns a homepage and wants to support the freedom of speech join the blue ribbon campaign:
http://www.eff.org/br/join.html

check out the bottom of the above link to see other organizations that fight for freedom and our rights.

also check out the protection schemes and etc that the eff is keeping an eye on:
http://www.eff.org/IP/DRM/

have a wonderful day,
TW