Pinnacle Studio 8 and SmartRender of mpeg2 file

[donpedro]

I did not update my Pinnacle Studio version 8 for some time now and I didn't work recently on any new projects so I am wondering if you have experience with this.

I know that when you capture in DV AVI that SmartRender will make sure that only modified part will be re-encoded (render). This was not true for MPEG2 files. Now I saw that in some version it should do SmartRender for MPEG2 files too. Is it true ? Does anybody have experience with this ?

Thanks.

[hakeemshabazz]

That's the rumor. I downloaded a lot of programs that claim to do this (Ulead products, plus some others) but I can't seem to get it work.

I'm probably missing something...

[donpedro]

Two people at Pinnacle forum confirmed that from version 8.8 it should work. Probably it's time to upgarde and test it a little...

[hakeemshabazz]

Does pinnacle even allow you to edit mpeg2 files ripped from DVD?

If so, how...looking it over, it seems like it's a strictly DV editing program.

[hakeemshabazz]

meaning, .m2v or .vob files.

I guess I could just change the .m2v extension to .mpg?

[donpedro]

I was more interested in editing mpg files that are captured with my external hardware encoder mpeg2 capture device.

[donpedro]

OK. I just tested it and it works. Here is what I did.

1. I took one big file 3,984,192 KB mpeg2 file captured with Pinnacle PCTV Deluxe. (VBR with average bitrate 6.50Mbps)
2. When opening in PS8 I let it make scenes every 10 minutes
3. I took 2 scenes (each 10min long) and place them on time line
4. I placed Baloon transition between them
5. Placed title in the middle of first scene
6. Placed DVD Menu before videos and let it create everything automaticaly
7. Set Make Movie with these options (DVD; Custom; bitrate 6500 Kbits/sec; audio MPEG)
8. Hit create

These are the times that it took to create DVD on hard drive

DVD length : 20min
Rendering : 6min
Compiling Disc : 2min

So as you can see... Good news... IT IS WORKING !!! It rendered (reencoded) only edited parts.

Version used was 8.10.4.0

It works also when you save to MPEG file and not just when you create DVD.

[falberni]

donpedro,

Did you actually play the resulting files to make sure it did not have an OOS problem?

What I have been experiencing is that when I have several mpg files, and I want to make a simple menu with no transitions, or titles, I will always get an OOS problem. However, I have authored many DVDs with Studio 8 directly from AVI with fancy motion buttons, motion background, menus, titles, transitions, etc. and never had an OOS problem.

[donpedro]

Yes I did and with no problems.

BTW: Have you tried using same MPEG2 files and author them to DVD with different software ? My experience is that even that mpeg2 file looks fine when played on PC, it mightv become OOS when authored on DVD and it does not matter which DVD Authoring sofware you use. So sometimes problem is in mpeg2 file. I am not saying that there was no problems regarding that in PS8

[falberni]

I'm now using TMPGEnc DVD Author with no OOS. I've also changed my procedure and don't encode to mpg in Studio 8 anymore. I use TMPGEnc to encode in variable rate, allowing me to get smaller files. That way I can put more minutes on a DVD.

I still use Studio 8 for perfect capturing and perfect DV editing. I love the GUI. Hopefully Studio 9 will be the solution everybody is looking for.

[donpedro]

Hopefully Studio 9 will be the solution everybody is looking for.

Based on what I know, it should behave same as last 8 release. Little changes in layout, plus new functions. I believe that if there are some issues in last release of 8 that 9 might have them too.

[dwiesel]

I use TMPGenc to create my MPG from an AVI, and want to use Pinnacle to add menus and render the MPG to DVD. I've been poking around trying to get an answer to a basic question, but am having no luck:

My question is, am I losing quality by rendering the MPG file(s) to DVD? It seems like Pinnacle is re-rendering the MPG, which I don't want. I've used Ulead and it has an option to not convert valid MPG files, which is great and works on raw MPG files…but, as soon as I add menus or crop the MPG in Ulead in seems to re-render the MPG. I also read that for Pinnacle, if you keep the bitrate the same the MPG should not re-render. Problem is, my MPG was created at 9400 (and is under 4GIG) for high quality and Pinnacle only goes up to 8000...so what happens in this situation?

I assume that because it "seems" to be re-rendering my MPG that there is additional conversion taking place, thus quality loss is occuring. I anyone can please let this newbie know the real deal, I would be very appreciative. Thank you.

[donpedro]

It seems like Pinnacle is re-rendering the MPG, which I don't want.

It depends....

1. What is final size of mpeg2 file form TMPGEnc ?
2. What type and paramters of bittrate did you used to create mpeg2 filr in TMPGEnc ?
3. What settings do you use when you "Make DVD" ?

[qlizard]

Its hard to tell exactly what you are doing. If you are adding titles and transitions to the video itself, this should really be done in avi format before you convert to mpeg. If done in mpeg, both ulead and pinnacle will rerender the material at the points where you add these things. If you are just cutting out material in mpeg, as long as you keep the file settings the same, they shouldn't reencode.

But if you are actually doing DVD authoring, which includes creating menus, etc, then as long as as you don't change the settings, it shouldn't reencode the material. creating menus shouldn't have anything to do with it. cropping out sections, as long as you leave everything else the same, shouldn't affect it. What ulead program are you referring to? I'm sure pedro will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think many people use pinnacle studio for dvd authoring.

[qlizard]

Its hard to tell exactly what you are doing. If you are adding titles and transitions to the video itself, this should really be done in avi format before you convert to mpeg. If done in mpeg, both ulead and pinnacle will rerender the material at the points where you add these things. If you are just cutting out material in mpeg, as long as you keep the file settings the same, they shouldn't reencode.

But if you are actually doing DVD authoring, which includes creating menus, etc, then as long as as you don't change the settings, it shouldn't reencode the material. creating menus shouldn't have anything to do with it. cropping out sections, as long as you leave everything else the same, shouldn't affect it. What ulead program are you referring to? I'm sure pedro will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think many people use pinnacle studio for dvd authoring.

[qlizard]

sorry, not sure how that got double-posted.

[PhreakPhish]

just wanted to add that you are prob right - i use P8 to capture and TMPGenc DVD Author after - I have had many probs with the P8 not wanting to Author huge MPGs - I love the menu options in P8 where the pics can fit in the ballon and all - like me, if this is what you like about P* all you have to do is

go in P8 and edit a menu that you like -
print the screen and load it in Paint and save it as a JPG
load that JPG as the background in TMPGenc DVD Author after you selected edit your own new menu
change the pics around so they match with the background

works perfect-

[BobK]

I've used Studio 8.8. If I open DVD files with TMPGEnc DVD Author and convert them to mpeg then I can edit those mpgs in Studio and it will use Smart Render.

When I tried to edit a captured mpeg (vs one converted from DVD) it rerenders the entire file.

Seems like a lot of steps to go though, but it takes about 20 minutes to have DVD Author convert a captured mpg to DVD, another 5 mintues for DVD Author to convert it back to an mpeg which Studio will then render in about 5-10 minutes (depends on how much editing I've done). That's a total of 35-40 minutes vs 6 hours for Studio to rerender an entire file.

[PhreakPhish]

I've used Studio 8.8. If I open DVD files with TMPGEnc DVD Author and convert them to mpeg then I can edit those mpgs in Studio and it will use Smart Render.

When I tried to edit a captured mpeg (vs one converted from DVD) it rerenders the entire file.

Seems like a lot of steps to go though, but it takes about 20 minutes to have DVD Author convert a captured mpg to DVD, another 5 mintues for DVD Author to convert it back to an mpeg which Studio will then render in about 5-10 minutes (depends on how much editing I've done). That's a total of 35-40 minutes vs 6 hours for Studio to rerender an entire file.

Maybe I just havn't seen this option - ( I also haven't tried loading a DVD in TMPGenc DVD Author) - but where is it that you go to save the DVD you opened from TMPGenc DVD Author into an MPG file? Seems like a great idea -

[BobK]

Maybe I just havn't seen this option - ( I also haven't tried loading a DVD in TMPGenc DVD Author) - but where is it that you go to save the DVD you opened from TMPGenc DVD Author into an MPG file? Seems like a great idea -

Click on 'Add DVD' button in DVD Author. Navigate to the folder with the DVD files (it opens the folder, not a specific file). At the next step, select the title to open (usually I just see one title- I think it shows one title per track but am not sure) and click 'ok'.

At the next step, check the box next to 'Copy the clip video data to the HDD'. Just below that you can select where you want the mpg files stored.

[dwiesel]

Ok…
…again, the MPG I'm using is 9400 bitrate, I've been testing with both VBR and CQ files…
…the file size is under 1GIG

To ask what settings I'm using is not the issue…assume I've tried custom/high quality/whatever…
…I'll repeat this again, I am using the max of 8000 in Pinnacle authoring…but my file is 9400…so it seems inevitable that a bitrate conversion has to take place….that is part of the question.

Qlizard…Pinnacle Studio is great and popular for authoring, the menu options are great, what are you talking about?? "Its hard to tell exactly what you are doing"…how clear can I make it? I'm trying to use a TMPGenc MPG I made, and import it into Pinnacle Studio 9 for DVD creation and want to avoid rendering. I want to trim the MPG, which I gather isn't true editing. What's not clear? I don't even see why the Ulead product matters (it's MF2)…my point there was that it has the option of not converting valid MPG file..anyone who knows Ulead MF2 will know what I'm talking about….if you don't know, then your input isn't going to help me, and my clarification isn't going to help you help me.

The bottom line here is, I don't want my MPG to be re-rendered and it is…can someone who actually knows what I'm talking about please respond?

THE BIG QUESTION: am I losing quality by re-rendering the MPG file(s) to DVD??? And, does 9400 have to be re-rendered at Pinnacle's max of 8000 for DVD creation?…Lordsmurf, hear my prayer….nothing personal qlizard, but I'm guessing your feedback is not compatible to my needs.

PhreakPhish -- thanks, I may have to use a different authoring software…I actually have done what you suggested, and it does work well. I would have hoped Studio 9 would have addressed the MPG re-encode issue, but evidently not.

Folks…I was hoping there was some way someone knew of to be able to have a 9400 VBR (or CQ) MPG not be re-encoded when using Studio 9 to author.

Thanks.

[PhreakPhish]

-thanks for the help - i forgot i actually did try loading a DVD - but for some reason TMPGenc DVD Author wouldn't load it - (this was an original, not a backup; maybe that has something to do with it)

-i don't think you will lose quality to the eye by cutting it from 9400 to 8000 - if you want you can use TMPGenc to re-encode the file to 8000 instead of P8 - then load that file into P8 - or use the method that was talked about with TMPGenc DVD Author -

- i know you don't want the mpg to be re-rendered , but i don't think there is a way for P8 to write that as a DVD without doing so b/c even the custom DVD settings won't let you go that high, as you know -

- why don't you want it to be re-rendered ? I honestly don't think you will even notice the difference from 9400 to 8000 - Are you having A/V probs or something when it is re-rendered or are you worried about quality??

[donpedro]

If I remember correctly, there was one long post between me and PhreakPhish about re- or not re-encoding.

[PhreakPhish]

yes there was - i will try and find a link

[BobK]

> i forgot i actually did try loading a DVD - but for some reason TMPGenc DVD Author wouldn't load it - (this was an original, not a backup; maybe that has something to do with it)

If you mean "original" as in a commercial-copy protected disk, yes- that definitely has something to do with it. DVD Author will no open encrypted files.

[dwiesel]

Turns out when I create an MPG using TMPGenc at a rate of 8000, Pinnacle will not re-render (since I select the max of 8000)...matching the rate must be it.

It's still annoying to only allow a max of 8000 in Pinnacle for DVD creation...does anyone know if there is a way to change this max limit in Pinnacle, either some code or data file?

I actually tried using Pinnacle Studio 9 to rendering from an AVI to DVD, and was very impressed with the result...it was very close to TMPGenc's quality (using settings of CQ 9400 rate, I/P/B of 1,3,0).