Pentium 4 CPU question for you experts!

[monster]

Can someone please explain the following:

1) What is the difference of the Intel P4 423 pin socket and the 478 pin socket (besides the number of pins, duh)?

2) What is the difference between the 'Northwood' and 'Brookdale' P4?

3) Using the new Intel 850 chipset motherboard, what flavor to of the P4 is best?

Thanks...

[MPereira]

Basically, the P4 423-pin uses the Willamette core, with the 0.18 micron architecture, while the P4 478-pin uses the Northwood core, with 0.13 micron architecture. The latter favours the development of higher clock CPUs (above 2 GHz).

The i850 chipset is fitted for the P4 Willamette for use with Rambus memory modules. Brookdale is the codename of the i845 chipset, for use with SDRAM memory modules.

You can get more detailed information in this site:

http://www.tomshardware.com/cpu/index.html

Good luck!

[monster]

Thanks

[Ronald_B]

If you want to get the 845 chipset you can either:
1-Might as well buy a Celeron since the use of SDRAM will make your system run like a Celeron
2-Wait for January which Intel is suppose to support the DDR ram with the 845. DDR is faster and almost as cheap as SDRAM
3-Go with the 850 and use Rambus which is fastest but most expensive.

[speedy]

Why wait? You can get a AMD 1.8 now with DDR memory and save money besides. BTW Rambus memory sucks and is way over priced.

[snowmoon]

None of the current crop of P4's are the nothwood core. Those are not expected out till end of the year. When it come out it will sport a hefty 512k on-die l2 cache. This should bring it's benchmark numbers up to match and exceed AMD's ( nothwood's have already been demo'ed at 3.5ghz ). Northwood also has hyperthreading technology ( going to be a year ) that will make a single processor look like two. Inital benchmarks show that running two threads on one CPU keep it stoked with more instructions giving a 10-30% improvment for apps that support SMP.

Why not just get an AMD?

Stability. AMD's 750 is an aging chipset, the 760 is ok as well as the 76-MP. The VIA's are just not stable enough for me and many others. SiS and other are just iffy. Intels 815,854,850's are all rock solid, most testing sites have been commenting on how even the engeneering samples of intel MB's are stable.

As I have said many times before you pay for the hardware ONCE, if what you get is unstable or you have any driver issues then paying the extra money pays off in the long run.

[Ronald_B]

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On 2001-10-17 21:49:37, speedy wrote:
Why wait? You can get a AMD 1.8 now with DDR memory and save money besides. BTW Rambus memory sucks and is way over priced.
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Rambus memory doesn't suck, but it is overpriced.

[speedy]

A few points...

I USED TO BE a dyed-in-the-wool Intel only fanatic going all the way back to their 8086 processor. Building a new system this spring I couldn't find the Intel motherboard I wanted and so I tried AMD, for the first time.

Great move! Cheaper, faster and so-called stability issues are bull... unless you overheat the processor by trying to overclock to extremes or not providing proper cooling.

There is ALWAYS some new chip on the horizon, so what else is new? What matters is what is avaliable NOW or short term future, not some maybe on a drawing board due out in 18 months or more. Ramus memory does suck, because it is way overpriced. That's reason enough. The industry is moving towards DDR and so it will be available for you fanantics that can't kick the Intel habit.

I'm not knocking Intel, but I'm tired of people knocking AMD out of ignorance. I learned, when will you?

[snowmoon]

Did I stutter.

Did I say chip stability, NO, I said chipSET instability. I love the chips especially the newer ones comming out. AMD's chips are better performes and cheaper than the intel chips. I hate the motherboards necessary to run the chips. The AMD chipsets are ok overall but lack features, and the VIA's are iffy.

I say this from experience over the years INCLUDING a 700 T-bird on a Epox k87a VIA133 board that gave me nothing but grief. Swapped it out for a BX and have not had a driver issue since.

I have one question for you, if you are using AMD with a VIA mb... How many times have you needed to upgrade your 4-in-1 driver to overcome a AGP, IDE, or Audio problem with bandwith intensive applications like capturing?

It's not me either, there is not a week that goes by where I don't hear some horror story about VIA compatibility especially with audio cards ( creative ), AGP bottlenecks, and IDE driver incompatibilities.

The only way I'de switch to AMD is if I go with the 760MP, or when good things roll in about the nForce chipset. Mabye I'll go VIA someday, but I've been burned ne too many times by thier chipset bugs. Until then I stand by my evaluation.

[speedy]

I'm sorry, I wouldn't give you two bits for all the "tests" conducted by wannabe nerds, self-appointed computer magazine gurus or the casual tinkerer with some half-ass web page proclaiming himself to be some "expert" on computer hardware.

My question really is just how much is that cheap little "Intel Inside" sticker worth?

Chipset instability can be affected by board design and it certainly isn't limited to AMD versions either.

A "good" system is just that; a system. My point was and remains you can have a good Intel or AMD system, you can also get a lemon from either as well.

[snowmoon]

Bill,

You never answered my question. And how much is that intel inside sticker worth..

A more import question for you is how much is your time worth?

I'm not going to get into a pissing match reguarding credintials, but trust me, my friends and myself are quite experienced with PC hardware.

For those out there not farmiliar with Bill ( aka Speedy ) looks like he is famous for flamewars. It's no suprise that the CPU war is an easy one to fight over. For further info about said flamewars, just check google.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wvg%40enteract.com&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wg

All I can say is you have WAY too much time on your hands Bill.

[jmiller]

Ok, enough of the flaming...it's truly a matter of preference. Each CPU works best for certain situations. It just depends on the skill of the person to make what they have work. I have two AMD systems (K6-2 500 and Athlon T-Bird (PC100 RAM, not a typo) 1Ghz, FYI) and have had no problems with it, while the computers at my college are all Intel (and a few Macs), ranging from Celerons, to Pentium 3s to a handful of 1.7GHz Xeons. Like I said, just a matter of preference and situation of use. Just keep the lousy Cyrix CPUs away ~~~

[d4n13l]

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On 2001-10-19 00:16:15, snowmoon wrote:
Bill,

You never answered my question. And how much is that intel inside sticker worth..

A more import question for you is how much is your time worth?

I'm not going to get into a pissing match reguarding credintials, but trust me, my friends and myself are quite experienced with PC hardware.

For those out there not farmiliar with Bill ( aka Speedy ) looks like he is famous for flamewars. It's no suprise that the CPU war is an easy one to fight over. For further info about said flamewars, just check google.

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=wvg%40enteract.com&hl=en&sa=N&tab=wg
All I can say is you have WAY too much time on your hands Bill.
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Quote from above link:
"Isn't it wonderful that concerned users of newsgroups faced with one
disruptive User (William Schlake <wvg@enteract.com> should not read any
articles by EnterAct's users?"
...Looks like speedy (mouth) has a reputation!
ROTFLMAO all day long!!!!!!!
William/Bill/speedster, wasnt it you who accused me of having WAY too much time on my hands, starting "immature" flame wars, having a poisonous tongue and being a general forum pest? mmmm... many people seem to have that same opinion of you - ROTFLMAO again! I read the bit about forum stalkers with interest, as when I first pissed you off, I was beginning to wonder if you had developed an obsession with me: Stalking my posts, trying to shame me out of town... only stopping when you realized that I couldnt give a rats ass, so your posts were futile, hehe... Nice try but no cigar
I only have time for one forum - looks like you are the one with time to burn dude. LAMO yet again, usenet pest!


BTW, I agree with this:
"I'm sorry, I wouldn't give you two bits for all the "tests" conducted by wannabe nerds, self-appointed computer magazine gurus or the casual tinkerer with some half-ass web page proclaiming himself to be some "expert" on computer hardware."
I dont mean anybody in this thread... but this is a true statement when it comes to many hardware related posts.
Most choose to impose their "authortive" views of what people should have in their cases, seldom do they realise that personal needs is what matters most to people, not others needs.

P.S. Still LMAO at your unmasking as a general forum nuisance. See ya, wouldnt wanna be ya.


your best pal,
d4n13l.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2001-10-19 15:15:44 ]</font>

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2001-10-19 16:15:38 ]</font>

[MPereira]

Hey!

Is all this discussion some sort of "mine is bigger" contest?

For those who preaches "FREEDOM", what is the use if you can't live with different choices. There are differences because there are options. That's what freedom is all about, right?

[d4n13l]

My point exactly; personal needs - freedom to choose what you want. Some people decide to just ram their "superior" knowledge down your throat and flame you if you mention anything else besides what they think is best, mainly based on an ambiguous benchmark posted at tomshardware or something.
I myself purchase hardware after reviewing many dedicated hardware sites (sorry, but off topic vcdhelp.com isnt really hardware specialist territory...). I ignore ignorant views that are totally biased one way or another, they are devoid of subjectivity so are worthless in my opinion. Then I work out what suits my needs with regards to the system I am building and make an informed, intelligent decision on what to buy. Furthermore, I dont then go out and flame anybody who doesnt have the same "3l3373" hardware as me because - THEY are not ME.
Its a pity that many peoples minds are so malleable.

[d4n13l]

This was once said by a very wise man:
"Three things you can count on in this world:

Death
Taxes
Purists pretending there's always right. About everything.

Bill"

mmm, Bill... that name is familiar...

[bob2655]

I am only posting on this because I have an unbiased oppinion. I have Both a pentium 4 and an athlon. Both
systems are very similar in speed and stability. The one common problem that I have with both is Windows (the blue screen of death syndrome) and third party software drivers. Other than that they are both way faster than my 386 that I use to write programs in pascal.

[d4n13l]

386? Pascal? Are you in a time warp? Or are you learning how to program properly, thats why I had to learn Pascal - good programming technique apparently.
The principal reason of the BSOD is Window$.

[speedy]

Interesting how the same kind of people always get their feathers ruffled when they get shown up. I never made any attempt to hide who I am and have used the same email address forever. I don't need to hide behind some mask and use some idiotic nick like snowbird or d4n13l.

Like I found in the web authoring newsgroup, CIWAH, this forum site especially the Off Topic forum has several losers that have nothing better to do with their time then to start moronic threads, look up five year posts in Googles or try to be some rouster crowing their "expertise" when in fact they are clueless.

Yes, I admit I have great joy in playing with such kiddies that haven't grown up yet.

<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: speedy on 2001-10-19 18:10:49 ]</font>

[tigerwolf]

you know just a point here, the cpu isn't the only factor in things and is not the only thing that has an influence on performance. While the pentium 4 and the athlon both are excellent chips, you also have the factors of what motherboard is being used, what other various components are being interfaced as well as what type of memory you are using.

As for which one chip to use, I'd go for the 478 pin, while there is really no difference in performance, since it alots for speeds above 2ghz, future motherboards will probably support it over the 423 pin processor. Hence you can upgrade the board before the chip and also easier to resell the chip at a later date.

As for memory, while you'll spend a bit more go for rdram pc800 over pc600, but pc800 will provides much better performance.

just my two cents. LOL

Have a lovely day.
TW

[d4n13l]

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On 2001-10-19 18:05:34, speedy wrote:
Interesting how the same kind of people always get their feathers ruffled when they get shown up. I never made any attempt to hide who I am and have used the same email address forever. I don't need to hide behind some mask and use some idiotic nick like snowbird or d4n13l.

Like I found in the web authoring newsgroup, CIWAH, this forum site especially the Off Topic forum has several losers that have nothing better to do with their time then to start moronic threads, look up five year posts in Googles or try to be some rouster crowing their "expertise" when in fact they are clueless.

Yes, I admit I have great joy in playing with such kiddies that haven't grown up yet.
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William/speedy/speedster/billy-goat-gruff/Schlame (LOL @ Schlame)
I do not hide behind a nickname as such:
d4n13l - Daniel. Simple really isnt it?
My surname is Burnett if you really care that much.
Whats the big deal with people who use nicknames? What is "speedy" if not a nickname? Its the Internet, it not as though we live down the street from one anonther. Why make a big deal out of not hiding your name - Unless you are a serial Usenet poster... er.. Pest. HA!
The reason I dont show my Email is simple:
1. I dont want to be greeted with "you have 47 new messages" every time I log in to my account.
2. I hate spam.
3. People can use the private message feature of this forum if they so wish.
4. I cant be bothered with multiple "throwaway" accounts.
All figures.
You have been exposed as a Usenet pest. LOL! What I cant understand is that you think that you are so different to poeple like me. You act in the same way but you explain it as:"Yes, I admit I have great joy in playing with such kiddies that haven't grown up yet."
mmmmmm... dont kiddies play with other kiddies?
And as for moronic posts... ROTFLMAO!
Look at the utter crap you post:Bills idea of a good post
LOL! AOL keyword:"Waste of Time".
What I fail to understand is how you think that you are so different, you are a hypocrite - I would rather be called a fool than I would a foolish hypocrite . Whats more I dont care, a fact that you cant seem to comprehend in the slightest. Give up with the 1/2 assed cheap shots... Usenet pest....
Looks as though your feathers have been ruffled... hehe.
You are none other than a Usenet pest, face it, get over your idea that you are otherwise. Explaining it away as you like to play with children... LOL. Do you really need the ego boost? Playing with children is your way of looking intelligent? LMAO! You need to make children look stupid because thats all you can make look stupid? LOL even more at you speedster . Mind you, they do say that you cant teach an old dog new tricks, hehe.
- Will.I.AM (a) Schlamer! HAHA!
I dont pretend to be anything else other than what I am, Im not as pretentious as some.
From what Ive gathered from your posts, you dont have superior knowledge of anything; you have more to say about PEOPLE rather than the questions they have. You know a bit, but you never give your credentials, what makes you Lord Master?
Anyways... you are fun to "play" with as well, keep it up... Usenet pest. Dont just bitch and moan about forum losers; from a Usenet pest it doesnt look very clever.



<font size=-1>[ This Message was edited by: d4n13l on 2001-10-19 19:36:41 ]</font>

[d4n13l]

speedy, seeing as you like to play, why not change your "member" status to mouth or lips? What about "Serial Usenet Pest"? ROTFLMAO! Please play the game.

your "bestest" pal,
d4n13l (Daniel, for the clueless)

[d4n13l]

WOA! Look at all that CRAP I just posted.

[TIbrO]

You guys are mad funny.
I love seeing a bunch of nerds fighting.
See, normal people that are not nerds watch sporting events on TV, such as wrestling, boxing, racing, or something of the sort...
We nerds tune into the Off Topic forum at VCDHelp to watch these flamewars between nerds!
I love being a nerd with lots of time!

I would be miserable if I couldn't come here for atleast an hour each day... This site is like forged into my daily routine now. Plus, so many nerds in one place, when you need help, just post here, and you're bound to get a ton of helpful replies that you can decide what to do with. Even if some replies are ignorant and almost advertisements for one particular company or technology, it's still good to read what people think.

[K808]

I believe that i read one of the posts above that said something about an AMD 1.8ghz....I think you're getting a little confused, rightfully so though. AMD has a chip called the AthlonXP 1800(which i have), they call it an 1800 because performance wise it equals or betters the P4 1.8 (in reality though a 1.4 T Bird can beat the 1.8 P4 in MOST areas). The XP 1800 actually runs at 1.533ghz.
Im not some big AMD activist, i own a P4 1.4, P3 800, P3 500, P2 233. They all run perfectly. You can imagine how long ago i got that 233 Pentium 2, but till today it still runs perfectly fine.
There was also talk about rambus and DDR. Pc800 costs a lot more then Pc2100 but Pc800 is hands down the fastest ram out there. Pc2100 is running on a 133x2 bus which comes out to 233mhz, while the Pc800 is 400x2 which is 800mhz. RDram is in its own league, but if you had to choose between SDram and DDR, go with DDR. You can also find Pc2400, and Pc2700 DDR which may be a little faster, but those types are more for overclockers because they can run stable at high fsb settings.
For the normal computer user i would reccomend going with an AMD chip, they perform better in most areas and they cost a lot less then Pentiums. It really depends on what youre gonna do though, for example my server computer uses a P3 800, because it runs cooler, where as my multi media computer uses the AMD because its better at gaming. One advantage to Intels chips is that they run a lot cooler then AMDs. In my opinion the quality of the chip is also better, they arent as fragile as AMDs. From what i hear also, the P4s are process data more accurately, thats all based on paper though, you wont notice anything in actual usage.

[d4n13l]

You are right. I would only use Intel in a server, they are safer than Athlons. For a start, a p4 can run with NO heatsink or fan, Athlons can not. If the Heatsink fell off an Athlon whilst it was running then you get a fried CPU a split second later. The P4 is ceratainly the superior when it comes to thermal issues. The P3 would just power down, requiring a reboot, but not a new CPU. My compiling system is an Intel, nothing else will do even though an Athlon maybe slightly faster.
You are right about RDRAM as well, it is the future, DDR is a quick fix short term solution, it doesnt have a long term furture. It is already nearing its limits as a memory technology, after all it is still SDRAM. The efficiency of DDR gets lower the faster it gets.

TIbrO, I love watching sport on TV, I watched the boxing last night and Engalnd Vs Ireland Rugby as well! Im just a part-time semi-nerd... you are a professional nerd, LOL. You are probably a closet UNIX guru, HA! I also love flamers, especially the speedster. Although, I think he take it a bit too serious sometimes - typical German, LMAO (sorry speedster - the German/Austrain name gives it away) We are almost identical... just like chalk and cheese. I am a forum fool who just loves to post crap and speedster is the type of person who loves to tease monkeys at the zoo! He said he wont reply to my posts anymore, but if I can just antagonise him enough... he will take the bait! hehe

[dumwaldo]

and everybody knows chevy is better than ford.... or was that ford is better than chevy?

i love this argument, there are so many factors involved in creating a system and the make/model of the processor is only a small factor. its not what you have but what you can do with it. lets say you build the perfect rig but then load it up with a crappy OS and buggy software, does that make the rig not perfect? or suppose you build a system from crap leftover parts but then streamline it to a specific task so it performs better than systems with twice the clock speed, does that elevate the quality of the hardware? this thread was complete after the first reply but i admit it was fun reading it. thanks for the entertainment but next time instead of posting unasked for banter why not try starting a search engine and looking up the phrase 'beating a dead horse'.

[d4n13l]

hehe.
I learnt one or two things from the ensuing posts though... sometimes it pays to read on even though if it mainly horsecrap.