AVT-8710 - How good is it?

[BrainStorm69]

Those of you that have one, what do you think about it? Worth the $175? Good things about it? Bad things about it? How it compares to other video stabilizers/macrovision defeaters you've used.

I'm not just looking to defeat MV, though, I'm also interested in improving the picture of some old VHS tapes I want to convert, and some of them are pretty bad in spots. How much will the AVT-8710 help in that regard?

Thanks in advance!

[presto]

I'm very interested too. I have the Sima SCC and it corrects the picture on my monitor but when I try to record the output with my ATI AIW Radeon 7500 it jitters and/or drops frames like crazy.

Many of my older VHS tapes play fine on TV but "flutter" when I play them on my computer and thus when I try to capture them. It looks like the top of the picture is flapping down like a flag fluttering in the breeze. I'm suprised that I haven't heard others describe this. These are old home movies so it is NOT macrovision. Is this familiar to any one else?

If this TBC will fix this I'd buy it in a heartbeat.

[pdemondo]

It works great for me! I am able to record my store-bought VHS tapes
to DVD via a CyberHome CH-DVR 1500. The quality is still VHS resolution
(of course) but all of the distortion is gone. I have some old tapes
I purchased way back that distort badly. It is cleaned up by the 8710.
It does a great job on hi-8 (my home videos) also. It has
consistently presented a good signal to my recorder (minus copy protection). I experimented with recording a DVD from my set top
player to DVD recorder and that also worked without a hitch.

[pdemondo]

I forgot to mention, I also tried it with my ATI AIW Radeon, that works too. The only time I have had frame dropping issues is when I forget
to disable Norton auto update and Norton tries to do an auto update.

[lordsmurf]

#1 Fix, FYI, is a good VCR with DNR-based TBC
#2 is a dedicated TBC

The "flutter" effect described above would be best removed by a DNR-based TBC, not one that is dedicated to frame synching.

[presto]

The "flutter" effect described above would be best removed by a DNR-based TBC, not one that is dedicated to frame synching.

Thanks for the info. I'd hate to spend money on another box and be dissapointed.

I went to the JVC site and looked around and couldn't find anything that lists DNR-based TBC. I even looked for the models mentioned on your site. I probably just don't know what catagory to look in or something. I get the impression this is not available in my price range (WELL under 300.00).

To me it is more than a slight oversite on the part of ATI that I can't record something that plays perfectly well on my TV. I'm tempted to play it on TV and just aim my camcorder at it. (I wonder if that would work. I know the quality would suck but at least it would be stable) It's such a crap shoot. I pick up a tape and cross my fingers and hope. Maybe I have more old video tapes than most people.

[presto]

Hey, I was only thinking out loud with that idea of video taping the TV but I just gave it a quick test and the results look good. I only played it back in the 3" screen on the camcorder but it is perfectly stable and looks fine. This might work.

(a few minutes later) Yeah, the video at full size looks much better than what I got going straight into the computer. I'm going to set up a tripod in front of my TV and run the video from my camcorder and the audio from the vcr into the computer and capture that.

[lordsmurf]

The "flutter" effect described above would be best removed by a DNR-based TBC, not one that is dedicated to frame synching.

Thanks for the info. I'd hate to spend money on another box and be dissapointed.

I went to the JVC site and looked around and couldn't find anything that lists DNR-based TBC. I even looked for the models mentioned on your site. I probably just don't know what catagory to look in or something. I get the impression this is not available in my price range (WELL under 300.00).

To me it is more than a slight oversite on the part of ATI that I can't record something that plays perfectly well on my TV. I'm tempted to play it on TV and just aim my camcorder at it. (I wonder if that would work. I know the quality would suck but at least it would be stable) It's such a crap shoot. I pick up a tape and cross my fingers and hope. Maybe I have more old video tapes than most people.

All JVC TBC's that are built-in to S-VHS VCRs are DNR-based.

[presto]

All JVC TBC's that are built-in to S-VHS VCRs are DNR-based

I went to the JVC site and found the page of S-VHS VCRs. I looked at the features of all of them and not a one lists TBC or Time Base Correction. I did a search of the site for TBC and came up with a lot of camcorders. I really looked but can't find a video player that list TBC as a feature. I'm sure it is obvious and I'm just missing it.

Lordsmurf do you know of a device that will work for me for under $300.00 (hopefully under $200.00)? Or can you give me a little help in how to search the JVC site?

[BrainStorm69]

presto, the only current JVC model with a TBC is the HR-S9911U

http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL026935&page=2

Other older models are all in the 7000 and 9000 model numbers. You can go to the link below to research them.

http://www.jvc.com/product.jsp?modelId=MODL022155&archive=true

Now, can we get back on topic?

[lordsmurf]

And the JVC SR-V10U

[BrainStorm69]

Ooops. I did forget the SR-V10U, which is not a consumer VCR. Sorry. Actually, I'm not certain that there are not other professional level JVC VCRs that have a built in TBC.

[BrainStorm69]

C'mon guys. I can't believe that pdemondo is the only forum member with this TBC. More input please!

[Baldrick]

Please wait a couple of days before you bump a topic.

[TheFamilyMan]

I've been search for a solution to VHS playback horizontal jitter, bounce, flag waving (what is this really called?) for weeks. The playback looks great on the TV but the captures looked terrible. I've tried the SIMA copymaster and the AVT-8710. The SIMA was useless, it even added its own horizontal jitter at the top of the picture. It went back to BestBuy the next day for a full refund. The AVT was also useless for me. Not only did it not solve the horizontal jitter, it added faint but very constant and symmetric vertical bars to the picture. I purchased this from the manufacturer's web site that advertises a satifaction guarantee. I called them and complained about the AVT performance. They were very considerate and replied: "yes, the AVT is 'not strong enough' to remove the jitter, and the vertical bars are a known problem with certain sources; the AVT is good at correcting sync distortions such as those introduced by copy protection schemes." Make of this as you will! They took my unit back and gave me a full refund, less shipping costs. I solved my problems by purchasing a JVC SR-V10U. Its TBC/NR completely removed the horizontal jitter; it playback quality is first rate. I have no idea how well it handles vertical jitter; none of my souces have exhibited this problem. Thanks to all who've posted about this VCR. It delivers, unlike the above products.

[FulciLives]

The AVT was also useless for me. Not only did it not solve the horizontal jitter, it added faint but very constant and symmetric vertical bars to the picture. I purchased this from the manufacturer's web site that advertises a satifaction guarantee. I called them and complained about the AVT performance. They were very considerate and replied: "yes, the AVT is 'not strong enough' to remove the jitter, and the vertical bars are a known problem with certain sources; the AVT is good at correcting sync distortions such as those introduced by copy protection schemes."

I'm most interested in what you call "faint but very constant and symmetric vertical bars to the picture"

I have a PAL to NTSC converter that has a built-in TBC and when I run NTSC into it and output NTSC there is no conversion but the TBC does "kick in" but it makes the picture "stable" but very strange looking.

In short it makes a straight line get a "stair step" look such as:

ORIGINAL:

\ 
  \
    \
      \
        \

WITH THE TBC:

\_
   \_
      \_
         \_
            \

You wouldn't be talking about the same thing would you?

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

The stair-step effect is deinterlacing.

[FulciLives]

The stair-step effect is deinterlacing.

So you are saying that my TBC takes 480 and deinterlaces (probably by throwing out one whole field) and spits out 240?

Hmmm ... that might expain it.

So I guess the only real TBC option then is the JVC S-VHS VCR's and the DataVideo TBC-1000

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[lordsmurf]

The stair-step effect is deinterlacing.

So you are saying that my TBC takes 480 and deinterlaces (probably by throwing out one whole field) and spits out 240?

Hmmm ... that might expain it.

So I guess the only real TBC option then is the JVC S-VHS VCR's and the DataVideo TBC-1000

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

Yes. Sucks don't it? Some devices do that. Especially deceptive are "progressive" cameras that destroy one field.

[TheFamilyMan]

The vertical bars that I saw with my AVT-8710 are shown and discussed in this topic:

https://www.videohelp.com/forum/viewtopic.php?p=491957&highlight=avt8710#491957

Most of the time they're barely noticable. If there's a fast camera pan, it's terrible, almost like a strobe light effect. Since the manufacturer knows about this and did not say anything like "you need better shielding, your power is noisy, etc." I assume that 'certain sources', i.e. the composite signal from my ancient high end JVC VHS JCR, is the cause. Just for the record, my projects deal exclusively with digitizing our home camcorder footage. And a little plug from a software engineer: TMPGEnc is kickass - show your appreciation if you use it for MPEG2 - BUY IT!!!