Newer drive dropping more frames than slower one!!

[richie_r1ch]

Ok after not being able to solve my frame drop problem using just one drive I decided to use an extra drive from an older computer so I could just leave my current 100gb drive just for capturing. I'm not sure on the speeds of the older drive but it came out of a 266mhz pc so its pretty old. Around 5.5gb and only UDMA 2. My newer drive is an MDT100 (western digital I think) 7200 RPM, 100GB, 2MB cache UDMA 5.

Anyways I fully formatted both drives using NTFS. Installed XP on the 5gig drive and left my 100gb drive empty so I can just capture to it. After installing the OS I installed all the latest drivers for my mobo, and cards. Disabled pretty much all the startup programs and services on xp. Turned all the fancy stuff OFF and using windows Classic theme.

I then installed Virtual VCR. Captured MJPEG @ 19 704x480 to my 100gb drive. After about 6 seconds it began to drop frames. big chunks too. From 7, 17, 36, 50 etc.. horrible!! All under one minute.

I then set the capture file to my 5gig drive where the OS was installed. It took almost a minute for it to start dropping frames and when it did they weren't nearly as big as the chunks I was capturing with the dedicated one.

I was capturing from a clear channel using the the tuner on my VCR. Not a VHS tape. DMA has been enabled.

I've tried various connection setups. Disconnected my dvd and cd burners and connected each hard drive to their own IDE port. Also setting the Capture drive as a slave on the same cable of the OS one didn't help either.

Any ideas why my old drive is outperforming my faster one? Using VirtualDubs benchmark my 100gig drive reaches write speeds of around 30,000kbps.. and the 5 gig drive is just under 10,000.

I am STUMPED!!!

please give me suggestions on what else to try/check?

oh and CPU usage stays under 30%

[rcb]

sort of a shot in the dark...

you might want to go over to wd's website and see if they don't have a downloadable utility that will do a thorough diagnosis of your 100 gig drive.

if nothing shows up there only other thing would be to try your winfast card in another computer - and I know that's easier said than done...

like you say - a tuff one

[richie_r1ch]

thanks for the reply

I download some utilitys from their website but said my drive wasn't supported. The only other computer I have is a 266mhz one . So I really can't test it there. I'll try messing with the PCI slots too

Right now im running a surface scan on the drive. Hopefully it finds and fixes something.

anymore suggestions are welcomed

[Leoslocks]

Clock the Celeron back to stock.

Add more memory perhaps. . . .

Use Virtual Dub and try to capture uncompressed AVI. See if that drops frames. The 30K write speeds should handle anything you throw at it.

[EDIT] I jsut saw your Windows Buffering thread. I noticed the same thing using Virtual Dub to bench my drives. Just a streatch here but if you have used both Nero and EZ CD Creator, youmay have some driver/software issues.
Download the Nero Drive Clean Utility.
http://www.nero.com/en/631938347293151.html
"The Driver-CleanTool will deactivate drivers that caused problems in Nero in the past.
"

[racerxnet]

Monitor the API and see what is hogging the resources. If nothing else check to make sure the drive is using UDMA 5 with the WD Data Lifeguard tools disk or similar program. Check the drive with ATTO Disk benchmark.

[richie_r1ch]

Clock the Celeron back to stock.

Add more memory perhaps. . . .

Use Virtual Dub and try to capture uncompressed AVI. See if that drops frames. The 30K write speeds should handle anything you throw at it.

[EDIT] I jsut saw your Windows Buffering thread. I noticed the same thing using Virtual Dub to bench my drives. Just a streatch here but if you have used both Nero and EZ CD Creator, youmay have some driver/software issues.
Download the Nero Drive Clean Utility.
http://www.nero.com/en/631938347293151.html
"The Driver-CleanTool will deactivate drivers that caused problems in Nero in the past.
"

Celeron's been clocked back to stock for a few days now after loading the default bios. Oh and I dont have any of those burning programs installed. I just did a fresh install of XP today so I haven't really installed anything but drivers and Virtual VCR.

-------

I did another test cap from TV again with both drives. In a 5 minute capture the older drive dropped 49 frames. They were all before 1:20. After that none were dropped. With my newer drive I hadn't even reached five minutes and it was in the 900's and counting already, I just stopped it there.

Monitor the API and see what is hogging the resources. If nothing else check to make sure the drive is using UDMA 5 with the WD Data Lifeguard tools disk or similar program. Check the drive with ATTO Disk benchmark.

How do I monitor the API? Do you mean CPU usage?

oh and I downloaded the ATTO benchmark program and here's what I got.

My highest speed with the OLD drive was
READ: 433,027
WRITE: 10,433

Transfer size was 32.0 <-- don't know what that is but thats what the program says

My peak read/writes with the NEWER drive were
READ: 398,511
WRITE: 34,430

Transfer size was also 32.0

I wonder why the read is faster on my older drive?
oh and how can I put this info to use?

Thanks alot for the help. I appreciate it.

[racerxnet]

An overclocked Celeron using the clock multiplier will not effect your capture ability. It is when the front side bus is out of spec that you will start to see audio and frame issues. Overclock to your hearts content if it will run with no issues. I would not worry about the read performance as you are writing to disk when capturing. Do a google search for APImonitor if you are interested in seeing what resources are requesting an interupt. Did you check with the Data Lifeguard disk to insure the drive is running at UDMA 5? Did you load the latest drivers for the motherboard chipset? Is the larger drive set as Master? Are the drives on seperate IDE cables? Are you sharing the CD and DVD drives with the Master drive?

[richie_r1ch]

An overclocked Celeron using the clock multiplier will not effect your capture ability. It is when the front side bus is out of spec that you will start to see audio and frame issues. Overclock to your hearts content if it will run with no issues.

Yea that makes sense. I'll put it back once I solve these issues

I would not worry about the read performance as you are writing to disk when capturing. Do a google search for APImonitor if you are interested in seeing what resources are requesting an interupt.

Ok I downloaded API Monitor. Before I can capture the activity it asks me to select some filters. There alot of them on there. Which should I check?

Did you check with the Data Lifeguard disk to insure the drive is running at UDMA 5?

It wouldn't detect my drive. Said it wasn't a Western Digital. I got the drive as OEM. The brand on the drive says MDT. Supposedly they are manufactured by Western Digital or something like that. I'm sure it's running on UDMA 5. I cheked the Device Manager and reported it to be running on UDMA5 the other drive is UDMA2.[/quote]

Did you load the latest drivers for the motherboard chipset?

Yea I have all the latest drivers to all my hardware in one cd-r. If its of any use, my mobo uses an SiS Chipset.

Is the larger drive set as Master? Are the drives on seperate IDE cables? Are you sharing the CD and DVD drives with the Master drive?

I've tried multiple configurations. Even removed my cd/dvd drives and using 2 UDMA cables connected each hard drive to their own IDE port. Same result.

Today I was able to capture @ full 720x480 resolution using the Mainconcept DV codec. No dropped frames. The cpu usage was in the 80's.

This is strange since I think that dv codec and picvideo@19 transfer data at about the same rate. I didn't drop one single frame with the Main Concept DV codec. I still like the picvideo quality better tho so I'm really trying to get this working.

Thanks again

[racerxnet]

The drive should be connected on the end plug, not the middle one, with the blue plug end inserted into the motherboard IDE slot. Not sure on the filters for the API monitor, but you should be able to figure it out. I checked in the device manager and see no display for the UDMA capabilities. Your Celeron is a budget based CPU from Intel, but should be able to cope with the requirments before you.

I did a search for the MDT drive and see it is a budget unit. Not sure if it is the cause of your problems. Considering the price of storage these days, you might be better served with a name brand HD. I see that one of the chain stores have a 120 gig WD 7200rpm- 8 meg cache JB series drive for $59.00.

[richie_r1ch]

The drive should be connected on the end plug, not the middle one, with the blue plug end inserted into the motherboard IDE slot. Not sure on the filters for the API monitor, but you should be able to figure it out. I checked in the device manager and see no display for the UDMA capabilities. Your Celeron is a budget based CPU from Intel, but should be able to cope with the requirments before you.

I did a search for the MDT drive and see it is a budget unit. Not sure if it is the cause of your problems. Considering the price of storage these days, you might be better served with a name brand HD. I see that one of the chain stores have a 120 gig WD 7200rpm- 8 meg cache JB series drive for $59.00.

Under IDE ATA/ATAPI Controllers it shows "SiS PCI IDE UDMA Controller" On that it shows which mode each drive is operating under. Maybe its just on certain chipsets.

120 for 59.00!! Thats real good

I have been looking to buy a second drive. I pulled the old one out of and old pc for testing purposes only. So maybe I'll keep my 100gig for the OS, programs etc.. and buy a name brand for capturing.

I noticed on either drive. When they drop frames it's always in chunks. I never slowly drop single frames like 1, 2, 3 ,4... It's always like 17,40,60 and then it stays stable for a bit and starts dropping again. Not even the old drive drops in singles but it does drop a whole lot less often than the new drive.

It seems like something else tries to access the drives while capping cause when it drops, the Hard Drive LED starts to blink slowly for a few seconds then starts blinking at the fast rate when it catches up again.

Thanks for the help.. I'm gonna mess with the filters in the API Monitor and see what I get.

[richie_r1ch]

UPDATE

I think I might have fixed my problems. Well maybe like 90-95% of them

I reinstalled all my drivers first with the ones that came with the card and THEN updated with the new ones. Before I started with the new ones. Did the same for my Mobo and Graphics card.

Another thing was that my C: drive. (Not the one im capturing to) was badly fragmented. Defragged that, and was capturing 720x480 PicVideo @ 19 with no dropped frames.

I did alot of other stuff too, so who knows what it really was that fixed it.

However I still can't cap using huffy w/out any lost frames. It takes much longer to start dropping frames now but still it drops them in chunks but not nearly as much anymore.

Since I now know my drive isn't bad afterall, I might just buy a 40gig or so hard drive for my OS and Programs to replace the ancient 5.5gig one im testing with now. I don't need more than 100gigs for capture. Plus i'm very low on money now. This board can really drain your pockets

Thanks to all who helped