Hard Drive backup to DVD RW

[hech54]

Quick question...
My hard drive is pretty big and half full....but mostly of stuff that is not ir-replaceable(MP3's and such). I already have all of my photos backed up to a CD-R.
Would copying....say....Windows to a DVD RW have any benefits later on if my computer decides to mess up? Would I be able to do anything with this copy of Windows later on?
I have B's Recorder Gold that came with my LG 4040B drive and was exploring the HD Backup software....but I'm looking at DOZENS of DVD's required to back it up and it appears it does not give you options to leave off un-important stuff.
Any suggestions?

Thanks....Hech

[LeoNapier]

Hi there!

Not exactly sure what it is you are planning to back up... Is it your files, mp3's etc? You mentioned windows... that got me a bit confused.

Supposing you want to back up your files, mp3s etc... My suggestion is to use WinRar, select the folders you need and compress those folders/files to the max, simultaneously splitting the backup rar file into chunks of 4.33 Gb to burn on DVDs. Then in case of a PC/HDD failure you will have a recoverable backup!

I think there is no point in backing up the OS (windows) folders since they contain loads of temp files, .dll leftovers and other useless stuff. Better off with a clean install OS if yr PC messes up!

BTW, dozens of DVD's???
how many GB's of files do ya have????
if more than 200Gb maybe ya should consider an external firewire HDD for backup purposes.
It would save ya all that time to burn the DVDs!!! 8)


Hope this helps a bit.

LeoNapier

[Craig Tucker]

Ideally what you should do is have a seperate partition for your operating system and programs (15-20 GB should be plenty) so you can keep it seperate from all your data, mp3's, vid's etc. You can then make a disk image of this partition (I use Norton Ghost which also compresses the files).

Then if you have a major system crash you can simply restore it from the image that you made and everything is back to normal within a few minutes. I know with everything I have on my system and the way it is set up it would take me days to get it back from scratch otherwise.

Norton Ghost also splits the backup into 2 gig segments so there would be no problem fitting it onto a DVD. In fact it gives the option to back up direct to CDR or DVD. My OS Drive has 10.3GB stored on it and the backup files total just 4.5GB when compressed.

[hech54]

Well....I was mainly looking into the "backup your hard drive" software on my B's Recorder Gold software that came with my LG 4040B. Thought....hey....good idea now that I have a DVD burner. I went through the process and it tells me I'll need 15 DVD's to back up my hard drive....and it had NO options to leave stuff off (in order to make the back up smaller). I'm just looking for something in case my computer crashes....I can get it back up and running.

B's Recorder Gold makes a bootable floppy to go along with the backup DVD's (or cd's) it creates...which makes sense. It will most likey ask you to "insert DVD 1"....and so on and so on to restore the info on the hard drive. I just don't feel it is necessary to back up EVERYTHING on the hard drive. I'm sure I'll just want something to get it back RUNNING again IF my computer ever crashes...and wont give a damn about MP3's I've collected or created over the years.

My hard drive is NOT huge either....only 75gigs used....53gigs free. I guess what I'm asking for is not easy for me to explain since I don't know the terminology all that well. I wan't a GOOD backup but not EVERYTHING on the hard drive....)

[gmatov]

Hech,

It looks like B's wants to back up your 53 gigs of free space, too. Goofy, to say the least.

I take it you don't have your drive partitioned, as Craig suggests? Would be a good idea to get Partition Magic, or some such, and do so. Non-destructive, so you wouldn't have to move your data to another drive and do a DOS fdisk and partition.

In your case, if you have one partition, probably have to make a large enough second partition to move everything not Windows, program files, related, then run PM again to shrink C: drive to 10 or 15 gigs. Personally, I think 10 gigs for a C: drive is more than adequate. When you install a program, select the D: drive for it to install to. It would be registered on the C: drive's Windows registry, and after a restore, everything should be working, as the registry would know where the program is installed.

That way you would backup to a max of 3 DVDs.

Cheers,

George

edit: Sorry, I read 75 gigs total, 53 gigs free. Definitely, you need to partition and move those files to there. This is going to take some time, after partitioning. You have about 65 gigs that should not be on your c: drive. You'll have to make about a 50 gig partition, move as much as it will hold, repartition again to make D: larger, and move the rest of the stuff that should be on a separate partition. You may even have to do it a 3rd time.

I have never tried it, but you might try Ranish Partition Manager, a free program. Partition Magic runs about 60 bucks. For that money, you could buy a 2nd drive and move everything there, then partition your original drive in DOS and do a complete re-install. That's free, also.

You might even be able to Ghost the OS to the new drive and not have any down time to speak of at all.

[Craig Tucker]

I have all my programs on the same partition as my os, so that if the drives fails completely, my backup can be restored with all programs intact, meaning I dont have to reinstall them all. I know I could make a second backup of a program partition, but it just seems easier this way.

[gmatov]

Craig,

You have a good point there, so long as your OS partition isn't WAY oversize.

My own C: drive is 10 gigs, dozens of programs installed, only 2 + gig used. As I have installed new drives as C: drive, some of the programs I didn't re-install, just dragged a shortcut from the other drives to the desktop. Work perfectly. C: drive dies, re-install, drag again. D:, E:, or F: die, different story.

It does keep me from having to re-install everything in a catastrophic crash of the C: drive.

Cheers,

George

[Craig Tucker]

George

My OS partition is 18.6GB (20,000,000,000 bytes) with 10.4GB used, with load of programs installed. So I still have 8.2GB free on that partition. I cant see me filling it up with programs.

You have only used just over 2 gigs of your C drive ?, XP pro need about 1.5GB does'nt it ? When you add office to that, that must be your 2+ gigs used up already.

[bottle-necked]

I've built many computers for people over the years and I always tell them the same thing..... The items you can't afford to loose never have just one copy of them.... You don't know how few people has listened to those words and how many have later ask me to recover lost data.

It's best to have 2 hard drives but 1 can work if it's partitioned into 2 drives. Put Windows and all your installed programs on drive C:. Put My Documents and all your personal files on the second drive.

Use Ghost or similar program and Image Drive C into an image file and store it on drive D as a file. If you ever have trouble with Windows just reimage C drive from that image file. This is a very quick restore process expecially with 2 drives.

As for backups DVDs makes that idea great. I usually backup my junk when I get a DVD disk full. I don't like to compress my backups because of how long it takes to get to something I'm looking for.

I also suggest a library program like Catalog Max. It reads all your removable disks (DVD, CD, and Floppies) and creates a data base. With such a program you can find specific files easily. It will tell you the disk and folder. Without such a program I would never be able to find a thing. I've got a whole drawer full of disks.

Good luck.

[Craig Tucker]

I think with ghost you need 2 seperate drives. I dont think you can image a partition of 1 disc onto a second partition of the same disc.

[bottle-necked]

My current version of Ghost can clone and create images of all file systems including NTSF, but it can only create image files (like I suggested above) on FAT partitions (like Fat32). Meaning, it "cannot" do a file write onto a file system unless it is FAT. (that's with my version that is) That's about like a Windows 98 install program. It can see all Fat file systems, but it cannot see a NTSF file system. My version of Ghost is like that. I've heard the new version of Ghost can 'see' NTSF and can write image files to it. Mine cannot.

I think with ghost you need 2 seperate drives. I dont think you can image a partition of 1 disc onto a second partition of the same disc.

I think I understand you, but that's not what I suggested. I suggested to use Ghost to 'create an image file' of drive C partition and write that image file, for storage as a normal image file, onto drive D. I didn't state that if you use an older version of Ghost, like myself, that drive D's partition will need to be formatted FAT or FAT32. I hoped that if this person decided to buy Ghost it will have the ability to write to NTFS and this would not be an issue of concern and may only lead to more confussion on the matter.

I believe you can go 'partition to partition', 'drive to drive' drive to image file', ' partition to image file', 'image file to partition', or 'image file to drive'. I don't remember a problem with partition to partition on the same drive, but there very well may be one, I just don't remember one at this moment. Norton usually has the help file for it's newest version of Ghost on it's website in PDF file format for download. It would state in that file if there was a problem. But why would someone what to go partition to partition for? That would just create a dup copy. I don't understand....

Hope this helps.

[hech54]

I guess I should go buy a program that does it for me.... I have no bloody idea what you guys are talking about.... It looks like there is a partition in this drive...but the end result will still end up beind 15 to 19 DVD's.....WITH the compression setting set to MAX. I also have another drive in this computer....but it is FAT32....not NTFS like this one.

Oh well....I'll keep playing and reading about partitions and such....THANK YOU for the advise guys. I WILL keep checking this post if you guys want to talk amoungst yourselves....I'm sure I'll learn alot....already have...

[bottle-necked]

hech54

I'm sorry if you're comfused. Actually this is a very simple process. I didn't do a very good job explaining it though.

If you could just watch me do a simple drive C restore from an image file you would understand completely what I said above and mainly 'why' I said it.

I've spent as much as 80 hours rebuilding computer operating systems. With this simple little program, Ghost, I can restore it in about 15 minutes. Given the choice I'd choose the image file anytime. Believe me. haha

Good luck

[Craig Tucker]

Bottle_necked

I have ghost 2003 and it has no problems writing to, or restoring from an ntfs drive.

But from what I can remember it will not backup a partition from a drive onto that same physical drive albeit on another partition. You have to have a 2nd physical drive to backup to.

The reason I mentioned this is because you stated :

It's best to have 2 hard drives but 1 can work if it's partitioned into 2 drives.

But why would someone what to go partition to partition for? That would just create a dup copy. I don't understand

OK lets say you have an 80 GB drive you partition it 20GB/30GB/30GB

The 20 GB partition you use for your os and programs, the other 2 partitions for data storage, music, movies etc.

So C: = 20GB
D: = 30GB
E: = 30GB

You create an image of C: and store it on D: Windows has a problem and something gets corrupted in the operating system. You could restore the image from D: back onto C:. Reverting your OS back to the state it was when backed up and hence repairing the problem

However like I said I dont think you can do this with the version of ghost I have. when creating a backup from one drive it has to be written to a different physical drive, not a different partition on the same drive.

[bottle-necked]

"Image File", not "Clone". I think this is where we are having trouble understanding each other.

Image File is, I suppose, the same as a normal ISO file. It's a file.... A photo is a file. I VOB is a file. Image file is what I'm talking about and I don't know how to type it better to explain myself. I'm sorry if we're on different wave length but I don't know how to explain it any better. I'm trying ok.

If you look at my profile you will see I'm running a 30G with my OS on it and it's in a removable drive tray (caddy). I have another 30G just like it in another caddy tray laying on my desk. I can shut down windows, exchange these trays, restart and I have a different computer. I use 1 drive caddy for capturing video, and the other drive caddy for everything else. I'm doing this because this gives me the ability to 'streamline' my computer for video capture, without changing my normal install on the other removable drive (the one I'm got in there right now).

If you continue to look at my profile you will see an IBM 20G drive also. This is my D: drive. It's a simple drive I took on a trade and it works fine. It's nothing to write home about, but it works and it's 7,200rpms. All I have on that drive, and all I ever plan on putting on that drive, is IMAGE FILES. Right now I have 4 image file sets on it. 1 of these is a basic WIndows XP install, activated, and not much else. I have another image file that's just like the above but it has all my hardware drives installed and some of my personal preferences set. The other two image file sets are more recent images, one for this drive I'm on right now, and the other is for my capture OS drive that's laying here on my desk in front of me. This gives me the ability to restore either of 2 removable drives from either of 4 image files. Ghost has no problems doing this operation, even when you only have one drive w/partitions, and it is a very simple operation. But like I stated above, my version (Ghost2002) requires me to have my storage drive formatted FAT, which it is.

I could put other files on that D: drive if I want to, but I won't. It's only purpose in life is to store my Image Files on.

I understand what you're saying about there may be a problem trying to "clone" partition to partition. But, if you are going to keep a backup of your OS it's a whole lot safer keeping it in an image file instead of a duped drive or partition. The reason I say this is because of how easy it would be for something to happen to your backup file structure. A program could install there, you could save files there, you could accidently delete files from there. Most anything I can think of can happen to that sort of "Open File Sturcture Backup". The image file backup system I'm trying to explain here is a much safer backup. You can make the image files read-only and even hidden if you want to.

You can have Ghost to split image files into chunks to fit a CD or even a DVD, but I prefer to use a hard drive myself. Using a removable disk to store an image means I probably won't keep my backup image up to date as good and when I use it I will loose some installed programs and maybe even installed hardware I have installed since I made that disk set. With a hard drive system like I have now I can delete images and create updated versions quickly, easily, and at will.

Ghost has no problem creating image files and it can put them just about anywhere you want them, even on the same drive....... but it hast to be to a different partition. As far as "Clone Mode" goes, I'm not sure, but I think it will do that also. It does have the command "Partition to Partition". That means to read this partition and write it to that partition. This can be on the same drive, but it might not boot without a boot manager. I've did some strange things like that before but it's been awhile. lol

My fingers are tired.
Good luck,

[gmatov]

Craig,

My main OS is 98SE. Windows folder on C: is 766 meg, Program Files just under 1 gig.

Windows on D: 225 meg, Program Files, 450 meg.

E: has near 2 gig of Program Files, had a problem and just deleted the Windows folder there, was going to re-install, didn't get around to it, fixed the glitch on the present C: drive.

Thing is, all the programs on D: and E: are functional. There's a lot on them that I no longer use, and if they were on the C: drive would un-install, which I dislike doing 'cause it's too easy to click "Yes to all" when it says "Doesn't seem to be used by any program".

Too often, the un-installer doesn't know what it's talking about, and you find a program that no longer works because you deleted a dll or something you actually did need.

Bottle-necked,

Your C: drive doesn't seem to be all that loaded down, either, if you can image it 4 times to a 20 gig drive..Do you, too, keep your OS drive compact, installing programs to the other partitions?

I'm going to have to image or ghost my drive one of these days. Basically, though, it is no big deal to rebuild my C: drive. Even gives me the opportunity to get rid of a bunch of programs I've tried but didn't like, or have expired and were not good enough to pay for.

One particular benefit I've found is my e-mail program, Eudora. I run it from the E: drive, no longer have to back my mailboxes up when I get a glitch in Windows.

Probably 50 or more programs installed on D: and E: drives. Keeps C: down to a manageable size, and don't have to re-install all those programs when I do have to re-install Win to C:.

I might not be able to do this much longer, as, with 98 no longer being supported after the 16th of Jan, am going strictly to W2k, and I don't know if this will work. Those freebies I do use may have to be re-dl'd in W2k version.

If this thread is still running, I'll let you know.

Cheers,

George

[bottle-necked]

Bottle-necked,

Your C: drive doesn't seem to be all that loaded down, either, if you can image it 4 times to a 20 gig drive..Do you, too, keep your OS drive compact, installing programs to the other partitions?

gmatov, there was a time the answer to all your questions would of been yes, but as I keep getting older my answers tends to lean more to the No side.

I don't have as many programs installed these days as I used to and I don't use as many programs on a daily basis as I used to. Don't get me wrong... I like experimenting with every program I can find but I've had sooooooooooo much trouble doing that I'm just about 'out of the business' so to speak. I find so many programs these days that are written so badly it makes me sick. You know, years ago we had programs that were junk but boy now days!..... It beats all I've ever seen. I don't know.

I install all my applications to drive C. I even leave 'My Documents' folder on drive C anymore. I keep a running RW backup of "My Pictures" folder since I've been into ditigal photography for awhile and don't want to loose any of them. When that RW gets full I make a R disk then delete the photos on my drive. I've got 10 full photo disks so far.

I use Ghost and have since about 1999 or so.(?) It's saved me a lot of work over the years. You ask about keeping drive C compact and I suppose I do now days. I just checked it and I have just a tad over 6G on it now. I have a habbit these days of just installing a program when I need it, so I probably will run into a project and decide to install something else, but for now it's pretty good.

I really like these removable drive trays. I can shut down the system. Slide out one and put in another, then reboot. I have a completely different computer setup however I want it. I have my capture OS pretty lean and mean. I have it stripped to the bone. There isn't nothing running in the background on it. Pretty cool really, but it's going to save me work because that will keep my capture OS un-infected by all the crappy programs I will install that just messes everything up. haha

See ya

[hech54]

hech54

I'm sorry if you're comfused. Actually this is a very simple process. I didn't do a very good job explaining it though.

If you could just watch me do a simple drive C restore from an image file you would understand completely what I said above and mainly 'why' I said it.

I've spent as much as 80 hours rebuilding computer operating systems. With this simple little program, Ghost, I can restore it in about 15 minutes. Given the choice I'd choose the image file anytime. Believe me. haha

Good luck

TRUST ME......it's not you're fault that I am confused.. I have just decided (after seeing the "printer friendly" icon) to print this thread and STUDY. I've always had the common sense to run a CLEAN computer....keeping junk freebee stuff OFF of my computers etc etc...that way they hardly ever crashed....SO....I never learned much about computers(or had to the HARD WAY). NOW I will do some reading.
I know I've heard the usual Microsoft bashing most of my life but I'll tell you what....I've got XP Pro. I've done more DUMB shit to this thing than I have EVER done to 95 or 98....like deleting unfamiliar stuff(with and without Norton Uninstall), removing and re-installing devices that act funny, changing drivers on hardware....and I find XP crashproof so far....I'm sorry. My old IBM Aptiva with 95 updated to 98SE would have been TOAST by now....

Keep posting folks....but not because of me please.

[gmatov]

Bottle-necked,

I used the slide out trays 4 or 5 years ago, loved em, but I swapped them so often, machine to machine, that the connections seem to have lost their electrical integrity. Would eventually not be recognized, and couldn't get them to be. Scrapped them, probably time to go back to them.

Tons of ripped DVDs on this machine. I'm too lazy to pull the drive and install into the machine with the DVD burner.

As far as the importance of back ups, I just lost 150 out of 160 gigs on a drive on the video machine. All that's left is the Primary partition, 8 gigs, extended DOS partition and logical drives are not visible, even under fdisk.

It can happen to anyone. Hell, it just happened to me, and I'm not stupid.. Fortunately, that drive had nothing but converted VCD/SVCDs and ripped DVDs on it, and I have all the DVDs, just fdisk, format and re-rip.

There is a lot of crap out there, but with 100,000 programs or more, your chance of getting crap is probably 99%. All those guys trying to make a buck with their 6 month programming course, don't necessarily write a program that is useful or reliable. And, with shareware, with a functional trial period, I'd guess a lot more is un-installed as crap than is hacked or cracked to be run for free.

I've dl'd and un-installed tons, myself. What I hate even more is the overpriced commercial crap that doesn't do as advertised, or does it very poorly.

Cheers,

George