VHS Movie - "Panic Room" WS Version (or not) ??

[vhelp]

Hi gus.

I wasn't sure where to put this, so here it is.

Actually, my question is, has anyone capture and encode this VHS movie ??

Ok.. Now for the reason of this thead.

On the VHS cover box, it's states that it's widescreen with 1.78 AR.
I got it just because it's widescreen, and also to add to my WS VHS hobby
collection

So, what's the problem ??
Simple. During the opening credits of the movie, it would seem to be in the
1.78 AR, but as soon as the scene opens up w/ Jodi Foster walking ina rush
to her new apartment (apt'mt shopping) it opens up into fullscreen. I have
not seen the whole movie in it's entirety (I'm not there yet today) I have other
movies to do. It was just laying around, and I thought I'd just quickly do
a capture of 1 or so minutes and see how the AR would look. I was surprised
to see it in fullscreen, even though the box purely says widescreen 1.78 AR !!
Are they doing the same basic thing that they do w/ DVD's .. that is, that
they "squeeze" the source? ..anyways..

Is this movie widescreen 1.78 AR, or is it fullscreen ??
On my TV, it's fullscreen.

So, I'm stumped !!

Ok, next part...
Could it be that it's, even though it's fullscreen on my standard TV set, that
it's "squished" or "squeezed" during play. But, that when I capture it as a
720 x 480, and encode it to widescreen w/ 1.78 aspect ratio that it would be
correct ??

What I want to know for sure, is after I capture it (ADVC) should I:

* encode as fullscreen, or else..

* if it's widescreen, then I'd like to encode it as widescreen. That is:
I would frameserve it into TMPG and encode w/ 16:9 with FullScreen
selected as my Video Arrange, and final results would be that the black bars
would show on a standard tv screen, and NO black bars would show during
a widescreen tv screen.

Here are some screen pics of what I'm talking about. The first one is just
before it changes to fullscreen (fs) and the 2nd one of several or so seconds
later.

Thanks for any input on this.
-vhelp



This pic was taken directly from my .AVI file from my ADVC. No filtering
or any such modification was done. It was taken inside vdub (Ctrl+1)
and pasted inside PSP and saved as .PNG file and U/L'ed to my webspace.



This pic was taken directly from my .AVI file from my ADVC. No filtering
or any such modification was done. It was taken inside vdub (Ctrl+1)
and pasted inside PSP and saved as .PNG file and U/L'ed to my webspace.


This pic was taken after I encoded it to 16:9 for standard 1.78 aspect ratio.
It was taken inside vdubMOD (for MPEG-2 source files) (Ctrl+1) and pasted
inside PSP and saved as .PNG file and U/L'ed to my webspace. Som color
correction was applied during the encoding stages.

[geek rock]

you could just buy the WS DVD ?

[Mr.Radar]

No, the VHS version is only "quasi-widescreen". Because the movie realies so heavily on the widescreen effect, the people who did the VHS tape couldn't do a normal pan & scan(to 4:3 or 1.33:1), but many people(who like videotapes) don't like Widescreen(and 2.35:1 at VHS resolutions doesn't look too good) so they did a 16:9(1.78:1) pan & scan. Just go out and buy the WS DVD, if you like the movie it's a worthwhile investment(and the picture quality is great, waaay better than VHS). You can get the DVD at Target for $15.

[vhelp]

I tell you, I"m not concirned w/ the DVD title. Yes, I've never seen the
movie. I bought the VHS maybe 7 months ago or so. Again, it's for my
VHS hobby. It's especially more so, when the movie is widescreen on vhs.
If fact, I found that there is a Video store that has a number of Star Trek
movies on VHS and in widescreen format. I want those. And had them all
in my hand, but when I turned around in the store, there was a line almost
two miles long, and even Star Trek was not worth it. Anyway, I'm going
to try again for THOSE movies too, when I go to work this week.

Back to topic..

@ Mr.Radar...

No, the VHS version is only "quasi-widescreen". Because the movie realies so heavily on the widescreen effect, the people who did the VHS tape couldn't do a normal pan & scan(to 4:3 or 1.33:1), but many people(who like videotapes) don't like Widescreen(and 2.35:1 at VHS resolutions doesn't look too good) so they did a 16:9(1.78:1) pan & scan. Just go out and buy the WS DVD, if you like the movie it's a worthwhile investment(and the picture quality is great, waaay better than VHS). You can get the DVD at Target for $15.

What do you mean by "quasi-widescreen" ??

I find nothing wrong w/ ws movies on VHS. Even 2.35:1 are fine to
me
.
.
Weather the movie is P&S or what-haveyou, that just doesn't make any
sense to the box saying it's 1.78 aspect ratio, and contine that w/ it saying
that it's W I D E S C R E E N - - you can't have a P&S or whatever
you call it, "quasi--. . ." and it NOT be widescreen. As the first pic above
shows, it's widescreen. (not "quasi") and the 2nd pic is fulscreen
That widescreen pic was only for about a minute and then it switched to
fullscreen. I know I'm not going crazy. But, maybe the 1.78:1 that the
box says it is, is the same format the our (my) DV cams are (when they
are set to 16:9 mode) Yes, they "squeezed" it to fit (and fill) the whole
720 x 480 resolution. But, that we have to "unsqueeze" it later, when we
encode it.. just like we do w/ our 16:9 DV footage.
.
.
I think that's what they did, but I'm not sure, and that's why I am here,
asking the question to be sure.

Yes, I can go out and get the DVD. Maybe $14 but I already have the VHS
and I'm not unhappy with it. It's my hobby to take VHS and convert it over
to CD/DVD format (for the fun of it and then some)
.
.
So, I say, it's not a requirement for me to go out and get the DVD

Thanks again,
-vhelp

[bokkasrealm]

If I remember correctly, the movie goes in and out from WS to FS the whole picture. I could be wrong but I remember that being one of the things I hated about that movie.

[vhelp]

If I remember correctly, the movie goes in and out from WS to FS the whole picture. I could be wrong but I remember that being one of the things I hated about that movie.

Yeah, but do you mean about the VHS version, that you hated it for it's
switching back/forth ??

Do you recall the scenes ??

-vhelp

[Mr.Radar]

What do you mean by "quasi-widescreen" ??

First, to me:

Widescreen = Un-Cropped original aspect ratio
Pan & Scan = Butchered, parts of picture removed usually to get it down to 4:3

Therefore Quasi-Widescreen = Weird mix of above two(usually P&S down to 16:9).

As the first pic above shows, it's widescreen. (not "quasi")

By the defenitions above, it is only quasi-widescreen. There are actual DVDs that use the Quasi-Widescreen(16:9 P&S) transfer method though (thankfully) those are rare. Below are screen shots from the DVD that have the areas that were cropped for the VHS version greyed out.



As you can see, nearly 21% of the picture is cropped off in the VHS version. It also seems that they are showing more of the top and bottom of the image in the P&S version than in the origianl theatrical widescreen (DVD) version.



This picture is wierd. The ratio of the cropped area is ~1.5:1, so they presumably have streched the image out some, as well as paning & scanning. Nearly 36% of this picture has been removed for the VHS version.

That widescreen pic was only for about a minute and then it switched to fullscreen. I know I'm not going crazy. But, maybe the 1.78:1 that the box says it is, is the same format the our (my) DV cams are (when they are set to 16:9 mode) Yes, they "squeezed" it to fit (and fill) the whole 720 x 480 resolution. But, that we have to "unsqueeze" it later, when we encode it.. just like we do w/ our 16:9 DV footage.

As you can see in the secomd image(in this post) it is both "squeezed" and cropped. And I'd guess that the aspect of the "squeezing" changed for each scene so you'd need a reference to unsqueeze it. But that's just my wild guess.

[vhelp]

hay Mr.Radar,

That was some unfolding piece of info. I'm domb-founded why they
would jimmy us fans w/ this widescren VHS version.

Let me tell you.. I was finally able to watch the whole movie throughout
and I can see, it WAS NOT widescreen, NOR letterboxed eitehr. It was full
screen ahead, all through out, w/ the small, teeny-tiny letterboxed of the
opening, just to the point where (your's and mine's pic) ends, and Jodi is
walking, while they pan 'down' to her and her friend.

However, the movie was great (imo) And the Orchestra was fantastic, again
(imo) I loved it all the way through And, Jodi 's a great actor/actress !!
She really knows how to get right into the part, again (imo)

I have to admit though, for a VHS, and one that was NOT "ditially mastered"
it was in flawless quality (for VHS, that is) I've seen my (partially) LOTR
vhs, and I can tell you, LOTR quality of pitty-full (last years' test)

Back on target...
But tell me.. is the vhs ws version 1.78 AR, and if so, did they "squeeze" it
just like they do w/ our DV cam's 16:9 mode. On my TRV-22, when I switch
to 16:9 mode (on the viewfinder screen, it's letterboxed) and plug directly
into my TV set, it's fullscreen on tv (or tall people) and when I FW it to my
hd, it's fullscreen at 720 x 480. When I encode it in TMPG, I encode this
source as 16:9, and unsqueeze it w/ a Fullscreen to get the true 16:9 (or
1.778 AR) back out of it. My "confusing" question is, did they apply this
same process for this VHS movie, but that when I play on my normal tv
set, it's fullscreen (just as my 16:9 mode DV cam) but that if I had a WS
tv set, had I hooked the VHS to it, it would play as WS on that ws screen tv
set, (as would my 16:9 mode DV cam) would. ?? ??
.
.
Sorry for the confusing analigy above.

Thanks for any input al,
-vhelp