Encrypting a DVD so that others cannot copy

[orbital517]

Bugster:

I am sorry if this is not something that you agree with but this is the way it is. There is no large recording company or large hollywood studio, just small companies trying to get by.

When a composer writes music for you wedding, you dont get the rights to that music. When a painter paints a picture, you dont get the right to duplicate that painting. The list goes on and on.

The primary reason for copyright is to protect artists from being ripped off. Is the wedding videographer an artist? I like to think so - I produce graphics and animations. I sometimes do some scoring. These are all creative works and go beyond a mere depiction of the wedding. I appy filters to the video to soften it when necessary. I fix levels when the video is overexposed, etc. These are an artistic addition that make the wedding videos memorable.

This is what you pay for when you get a wedding video. You dont just get a rambling video with wild pans and zooms. You get something you will want to watch again and again.

Well said, and I totally agree.

[jimmalenko]

If you want the job you'll have to get yourself out here.

[jimmalenko]

too long - no deal.

[triphop]

Ah - no. Thats not much of an offer is it really? You werent really making a serious offer were you? It not usual for contractors to travel across the globe at their own expense thereby losing money in the "bargain". When you develop some intestinal fortitude - drop me a line.

If you want the job you'll have to get yourself out here.

[hudsonf]

This is what I found on a google search http://www.ipwatchdog.com/work_for_hire.html

[b1tchm4gn3t]

can anyone say...."greedy bastards!!!'

[lotsill]

This OP is GAY.

[andkiich]

This thread is a good lesson to all. If you are hiring someone for a service make sure you READ THE CONTRACT and you as the buyer have the right not to hire anyone that does not want to provide you with what you want.

No one is saying that the photo/videographer should not get paid his fair share, but having the cameraman own your wedding video is kinda like the cameraman who filmed Lord Of The Rings owning the film. Just because it's a small business, somehow the rules change. Right or wrong or no matter how much you may or may not like it, this is the reality of the situation.

Thank goodness we live in a capitalist society. If this is something that you do not like, do not patronize(or sign a contract) with a company/person that holds your wedding video as their copywritten property. Then, those people will either go out of business or have to change their practices.

BUYER BEWARE!

[lordsmurf]

BUYER BEWARE!

Good suggestion!

If and when my wedding day comes, I know what kind of ******** to avoid when finding a good videographer. Photography I'll have covered by co-workers. So for that, this thread has been beneficial.

Somebody owning my wedding day. The very idea.
100 years ago you would have been tarred-and-feathered. Maybe hung.

[bode]

Thanks for continuing "the cause" aero and triphop.

The rest of you who disagree may just find someone who uses an idiot friendly automatic camera with a big red record button if you cannot respect the skills of a professional photographer.

Come and join me one day and you will appreciate the work that goes into a photography/ video shoot.

A lot of the arguments in this thread were down to ignorance of the law and common business practice.

A few of you owe pelsass an apology, a new forum member who was blasted a thief and every vulgarity under the sun. Unless he was a money grabbling employee who didn't own the copyright in the first place

Don't worry Lordsmurf, in a hundred years time, us scum sucking parasites will own the copyright to your memories if they resemble our images

We don't own your wedding day, just the images that WE created!!

mods, lock this thread soon!

[bugster]

mods, lock this thread soon!

Why, I see no flaming profanity or bashing. Its probably just about run its course but I see no reason to lock it. If some one else has an opinion to offer on this subject who am I to stop them as long as they stay within the AUP.

[Turtle49]

I've got to be honest with you I sat here for 10 minutes this morning debating whether or not to post again.
Ultimately Bodes comments just got the best of me.

A few of you owe pelsass an apology, a new forum member who was blasted a thief and every vulgarity under the sun. Unless he was a money grabbling employee who didn't own the copyright in the first place

I do agree Pelsass took some heat, but give me a break. He came on to a board frequented by people who, in my opinion, believe in the consumers rights. And then asked for information on how to restrict them.

Did he really think this wasn't going to blow up? I think maybe your running with a little bit of ignorance.
Most of the people, in my estimation, have posted that they DO believe that Videotagraphers should get paid for there services and that there is value. But not many think they should keep getting paid after the job is delivered.

So Flame-on brother, way to make a case for Lordsmurf (whom I ultimately agree with)

[welshrog]

just pointing out to tommyknocker, i work with lots of photographers
and NONE of them hand over the negatives unless agreed beforehand(usually at extra cost) as for encrypting wedding dvd forget it, just get your pricing right before you shoot the wedding.

[azalin1975]

Right, all this "you are a bugger to want it to be uncopyable" has nothing at all to do with the simple question of can it be copy-protected.

Yes it can, and no it can not. DVD-R and +R and all the non-pressed versions of a DVD are difficult to protect in such a way that someone else has a difficult time de-protyecting it. If you are serious you should consider having the DVD pressed, a replication plant can offer a couple of ways to incorporate the protection for you as far as I know. But best is to check the FAQ allready mentioned here. However, none of them will be cheap no matter WHAT you do and the question is, is it worth the trouble?

Best of luck with comment dodging

[Faustus]

I'll just put in my quick 2 cents without a long ramble. We know for sure that most photograph studios own your pictures and not you. I would think it would be the same for video.

[triphop]

No one owns your wedding day - the photographer and the videographer own the images to your wedding day unless you PAY for the copyright to them. Look, if you want to be cheap thats fine but then don't start whining that you automatically own the copyright to something that is clearly not yours. Lets see if *you* have the guts to tell your videographer that you will be copying your wedding video irrespective of the copyrights at the contract commencement. Then come back with tongue awagging.

BUYER BEWARE!

Somebody owning my wedding day. The very idea.
100 years ago you would have been tarred-and-feathered. Maybe hung.

Copyright is a long established principle and artists have long controlled the reproduction rights on works commissioned by others UNLESS contracted away.[/b]

[BALLOONHEAD]

Just had to get my 2 cents in (probably up to $4 by now) on the biggest thread I've seen as a newbie.

If I hire you to film my wedding I will most likely pay you big dollars for the use of your equipment and expertise. However you are going to throw in the cds at a minimal cost and I will ensure they are not copy protected. This is simply a case of "buyer beware"

I agree wholeheartedly that not allowing your clients to make copies is wrong. You should make your money on the job and even offer to sell copies for the price of a blank dvdr to my guests. But to prevent me from making copies is still sticking it to the little man who just shelled out a fortune in the first place to use your services.

Simply said, those who would charge large fees for copies will not last long in the industry.
__________________________________________________ ___________
"...like these two balloonheads over here...they're trying to bang us out of $200 Grand?...right...that's why the bosses sent me out here...to make sure none of the other crews robs the joint" ***Casino***

[triphop]

No videographer is going to kick up a big fuss about this and if you want to buy the copyright, most would be more than willing to sell them to you - it saves them from hanging on to your master tapes, sound recordings, etc, etc in a secure location. They will probably even give your the edit files and the list of clips...

What I object is some pinhead automatically assuming that because its his wedding he owns the copyright to the video. Most of these *big lads* would not have the courage of their convictions and actually inform the videographer of their intentions before the fact.

Additionally there seems to be some idea that a videographer is just some cameraman. If thats what you think, then you are mistaken. The videographer has the following roles:

0. Planning, equipment rental & purchasing
1. Camera
2. Sound
3. Edit
4. Scoring (sometimes)
5. Animations and titling
6. Final production
7. Lots of driving around, picking up and dropping off stuff.

And most of us dont like to work for minimum wage since our families (yes I am married going on 8 years) would like the occasional vacation.

regards,

Just had to get my 2 cents in (probably up to $4 by now) on the biggest thread I've seen as a newbie.

If I hire you to film my wedding I will most likely pay you big dollars for the use of your equipment and expertise. However you are going to throw in the cds at a minimal cost and I will ensure they are not copy protected. This is simply a case of "buyer beware"

I agree wholeheartedly that not allowing your clients to make copies is wrong. You should make your money on the job and even offer to sell copies for the price of a blank dvdr to my guests. But to prevent me from making copies is still sticking it to the little man who just shelled out a fortune in the first place to use your services.

Simply said, those who would charge large fees for copies will not last long in the industry.
__________________________________________________ ___________
"...like these two balloonheads over here...they're trying to bang us out of $200 Grand?...right...that's why the bosses sent me out here...to make sure none of the other crews robs the joint" ***Casino***

[tommyoz]

I don't know if this has been said before (i'm sure it has). I just couldn't read through all posts.

I would definitely not do business with this videographer. These are little things that the average person doesn't have in mind. They are to busy with planning the rest of the wedding. Most of the times it's the parents doing the planning and they don't care about these details.
If I was in charge of finding a videographer and he says these things to me, I would say forget it and move on to the next (now I would know what to look for). Just my opinion.

[triphop]

You are right - when you are planning your wedding you do not have time to handle every issue. However you will be asked to sign pieces of paper. The good wedding contractor will bring your attention to parts of the contract that are pertinent. The poor contractor will attempt to keep you in the dark and then when you complain say: Look, its here in the contract you signed.

Are you really saying that you prefer the second kind of contractor?

I don't know if this has been said before (i'm sure it has). I just couldn't read through all posts.

I would definitely not do business with this videographer. These are little things that the average person doesn't have in mind. They are to busy with planning the rest of the wedding. Most of the times it's the parents doing the planning and they don't care about these details.
If I was in charge of finding a videographer and he says these things to me, I would say forget it and move on to the next (now I would know what to look for). Just my opinion.

[Gazorgan]

Let's muddy the waters.

I have put 3 home and 3 professional wedding tapes onto DVD. I don't do this as a business, I don't get paid enough to do it (My time is worth more than I can reasonably charge). I wind up doing it because my spouse opened her mouth. I do charge $8 per DVD copy, which is down from $10 I used to charge, and I consider that a fair market price. The actual service varies with the amount of editing I have to do. $50 for a professional tape(straight capture) and up to $300 for the 'camcorder of doom'(lottsa editing).

I've never considered that I own the rights to anything. It's not my wedding, I'm just providing a service. The 3 professional tapes implied that the videographer owned the rights to the whole tape, which is interesting since they obviously don't have a signed release from anyone in the wedding video (except maybe the nuptial couple that signed the contract). So, how do they get off putting the copyright intro and the illegal to copy intro's on the tapes? I guess you have to go back to the contract and look....

[tommyoz]

You are right - when you are planning your wedding you do not have time to handle every issue. However you will be asked to sign pieces of paper. The good wedding contractor will bring your attention to parts of the contract that are pertinent. The poor contractor will attempt to keep you in the dark and then when you complain say: Look, its here in the contract you signed.

Are you really saying that you prefer the second kind of contractor?

[/quote]

What I meant was, If it was brought to my attention or if I saw it on the contract (and I would read it, because it's me) I would not deal with them and move on. Good or Bad according to your standards.

[pauln119]

Pelsass,

I think you're on a very touchy subject. Big difference between a real production movie and personal videos is that one is for clearly for profit and the other is not. Nobody likes their personal videos and photos to be copyrighted by somebody else, although I know it is general practice to do so with professional photographers and videographers.

You are certainly free to make a profit in such a manner as charging for additional copies, but just let the client know up front, even if they don't know better to ask. Have it in writing upfront. In general, couples getting married are young and excited about the marriage and don't bother with the details of asking whether or not they can make copies of their videos later. I can imagine that they will be pretty upset later when they discover that they do not have rights to make their own copies as they wish. State everything upfront and let all your customers know in advance so that there will be no surprises. Offer different rates for customers who want to own the rights to all their materials.

In my business, I occasionally hire contractors to do design work for me and everything is stated up front. I want complete ownership rights to all the designs and production. There are no royalties paid to the contractors on sales of the product. This is actually general practice in my field, but everything is stated upfront and the contractors bid accordingly.

I think it is futile to try to protect your DVD contents. You can certainly do so, and try to make more money on the sale of each DVD. $10 for each DVD seems reasonable, but for an industry such as yours in which a lot of business is by word of mouth, I would concentrate on the quality of the content rather than try to squeeze a few more bucks from current clients. Have a higher rate fee for clients who want complete ownership and rights , and offer a discount to those who are ok with you retaining ownership rights. Just state everything upfront.

[triphop]

What are you particularly offended at? Copyright issues?

You are right - when you are planning your wedding you do not have time to handle every issue. However you will be asked to sign pieces of paper. The good wedding contractor will bring your attention to parts of the contract that are pertinent. The poor contractor will attempt to keep you in the dark and then when you complain say: Look, its here in the contract you signed.

Are you really saying that you prefer the second kind of contractor?

What I meant was, If it was brought to my attention or if I saw it on the contract (and I would read it, because it's me) I would not deal with them and move on. Good or Bad according to your standards.[/quote]

[tommyoz]

What are you particularly offended at? Copyright issues?

Nope, My Wedding.

[triphop]

You are offended at your wedding? Not a good start to lifetime relationship is that then

What are you particularly offended at? Copyright issues?

Nope, My Wedding.

[triphop]

Stupid bastion host

[triphop]

[Not bashing anyone - the proxy firewall here at work (its a slow day here [but I am hacking on some pretty hairy XSL {fun, fun, fun}]) likes to swallow HTTP responses so I am never sure if the post went through)

[Alan69]

Wow so many responses to a topic.

No wonder, you are clearly lying if not trolling..

You are NOT just trying to provide a service with copying. If you were, you'd only be charging the actual cost of copying plus a minor profit for the time. And you wouldn't care less if they copied or had someone else do it. Walmart doesn't hold you hostage to getting your prints only there.

You were simply lying trying to make out like you were just wanting to do what Walmart etc do. You weren't even smart enough to pick an example that actually supports your argument. Don't believe for a second that you can accomplish what you were asking for.

Santa should leave you nothing for Christmas, you're a fibber.

[Tommyknocker]

Alan69, having a difference of opinion is one thing, quite acceptable on this forum. But name-calling is taboo. I only mention this because we just had this thread reopened and do not want to see it closed again. Now, I do not agree with Triphops position on this topic, but neither he nor anyone else here deserves to be called names. I believe you owe him an apology.