Problem with dvd-r from Phillips recorder

[satanking]

I just got a dvd-r that won't play in my Aiwa dvd player, has played every other dvd-r from various sources no problem. the Aiwa doesn't even recognize it as a valid disc. This is a dvd-r copy, the original was made with a Philips 985.

It plays fine on windvd and the guy's Sanyo player. I thought it might be a dvd+r but it wouldnt play on my computer if it was. The only wierd thing I noticed on WinDVD is that the menu has a track for the movie and one that just says empty.

The only thing that looked wierd was when I analized it with dvd decrypter, it looks like the movie is on there twice or something?!? There are 4 tracks two of them are only 1 second long, the other two are the same exact length (main movie?) I'll try to get a screen shot on later if I can. Could it be the settings on the dvd recorder?

Let me know if I can give anymore info that would help.

thanks

[bamdvd]

Not sure I have the answer for you. But I may have something similar to you. I transferred two home movies to DVD+RW on a Philips DVDR80. Playing the DVD+RW shows it has two titles, as expected.

But there are ten files in the VIDEO_TS folder on the disk as follows, with file size (KB) reported by Windows Explorer, and duration (minec) and "capacity" (MB) reported by TMPGEnc DVD Author 1.5 (* means the file is not listed by TMPGEnc as one that can be imported):

VIDEO_TS.BUP, 12 KB, *
VIDEO_TS.IFO, 12 KB, *
VIDEO_TS.VOB, 320 KB, *
VTS_01_0.BUP, 52 KB, *
VTS_01_0.IFO, 52 KB, *
VTS_01_1.VOB, 741,472 KB, 29min 54sec, 2079 MB
VTS_01_2.VOB, 741,472 KB, 22min 10sec, 1541 MB
VTS_01_3.VOB, 741,472 KB, *
VTS_01_4.VOB, 741,472 KB, 29min 54sec, 2079 MB
VTS_01_5.VOB, 741,560 KB, 22min 10sec, 1541 MB

Not sure why there are no VTS_02_*.* files (for title 2). And it looks like VTS_01_1.VOB and VTS_01_4.VOB are identical (and they correspond to title 1 when played back), as are VTS_01_2.VOB and VTS_01_5.VOB (and they correspond to title 2 when played back). As I'm learning more about all this (at least DVD file structures), I think the VOB file information as reported by some software (e.g., above) can be misleading. Program Chains (PGCs) actually govern playback, and a PGC for a title can point to more than one VOB. Your main movie actually may be in more than one VOB file. Looks like Philips takes the media stream and converts it into equally-sized VOB files (and each under 1 GB). I have emailed questions to Philips about their DVD file structures but don't have full answers yet. Don't know if this helps.

[donpedro]

I guess this is how DVD Recorder make stuff.... I saw "two sets" before.... As far as DVD Player not able to play DVD... It happens with DVD Recorders. I had same issue... you can find it here.. with Panasonic.

[satanking]

I looked at it in DVDdecrypter in IFO mode and it has the same type of configuration.

PGC 1 [01.37.37]
PGC 2 [00.00.01]
PGC 3 [01.37.37]
PGC 4 [00.00.01]

Also I noticed that DVD Shrink crashes if I try to load the disc, so something about the way this recorder sets up the files is kind of screwy. Please let me know if you hear back from Phillips.

[hech54]

Yes....DVDShrink HATES discs created on Philips machines.

[satanking]

so do I

[bamdvd]

My understanding is that each title on a DVD can have one or more PGCs associated with it, and each PGC can point to one or more VOBs. My Philips DVD+RW seems consistent with that.

I've only started using TMPGEnc DVD Author and DVD Decrypter. (I have no experience with DVD Shrink.) Similar to you, DVD Decrypter in IFO mode seems to show duplicate PGC information on my DVD+RW. But I think it's just two PGCs for a single title -- and the information shown in brackets (e.g., duration) is for the full title not for the PGC itself. At least that's what would make sense.

I haven't used DVD Decrypter enough yet to know whether for sure I need to decrypt just one or all PGCs for a title to transfer the full title, but my initial attempt seemed to generate the full title when I decrypted only one of the PGCs for the title. This suggests that there must be sufficient information in a single PGC of a multiple-PGC title (or maybe from an associated IFO file that the software recognizes) that at least TMPGEnc and DVD Decrypter are able to pull in the full title when only one PGC (or VOB in the case of TMPGEnc) is selected.

My main question is why are there no VTS_02_*.* files on the Philips-created DVD+RW even though I have two titles. (For each title "nn" on a DVD, there should be a set of VTS_nn_*.* files, 1<=nn<=99.) That would seem to violate DVD file structure standards. I can imagine that might cause problems with some software and players. Since you seem to have only one title on your DVD-R, this is probably not an issue for you. But if there are things non-standard about Philips' DVD file structures there may be something related here (but hasn't Philips been one of the standard setters for DVD -- but only for +R/RW, but which I thought was consistent with a common set of some standards for -R/RW and +R/RW such as DVD file structures?).

If I understand your original post, is it just the DVD-R copy that won't play in the Aiwa? Does the original made with the Philips 985 play in the Aiwa? If so, maybe this is not a Philips-related problem for you (in which case, sorry for wasting you time).

I'll let you know if and when I hear back from Philips. They usually have responded eventually, but not always in a way that resolves my questions.

[satanking]

I just have a dvd-r copy that I got from a trade so I don't have acess to the original.

I have some other dvd-r that were made with a phillips, I guess its one of the older ones with the blue background? No problems with any of those.

There really isnt much reason to use dvdshrink but the fact that it crashes it confirms my suspicion that this file structure is jacked.

I wonder why they mucked with the file sturctrue? Was their compatability too high!?

[jimmyinhawaii]

If you use dvddecrypter they will show 2 pgc file with same amount,the bigger is the main movie,the smaller one is the menu.
Philips record the vob max for 741472 KB,if your file is bigger than that it will creat another vob.

[bamdvd]

Finally got some more information from Philips about their file structures, although doesn't answer all my questions nor yours'....

(1) Philips is not sure why the file creation dates on the DVD+RW disks are set to 12/31/1999 7:00pm. Might have something to do with the recorder's firmware version.

(2) Philips is not sure why I have VTS_01_*.* files but no VTS_02_*.* files on the DVD+RW disk even though there are two titles on the disk. Might have something to do with the recorder's firmware version.

(3) For a title on the disk, there are two Program Chains (PGCs) -- one plays back the original video without edits, one plays back the video with any edits (e.g., chapter marks, hidden chapters, etc.) that have been made on the disk. (Maybe that applies only to DVD+RW disks, and maybe DVD+R disks?) The actual video/audio data on the disk are not duplicated; there are just two sets of pointers (PGCs). If no edits have been made on the disk, then the two PGCs are identical (point to the same data cells on the disk). On a DVDR80, choosing "play full title" will play back according to one of the PGCs, and choosing to play title from the main menu will play back the other PGC (didn't catch which is edited vs. which is non-edited version).

(4) Regarding (2) and (3) above, I already had installed the latest DVDR80 firmware update, so Philips suggests reinstalling the firmware which requires doing a "forced download" (a multi-step process involving unplugging the DVDR80, etc.). How files are structured on the disk can depend on the firmware on a Philips DVD recorder (and perhaps for any DVD recorder).

(5) Philips said experiences and solutions from other Philips' DVD recorder users can be found at a forum at www.dvdplusrw.org.