Pioneer DVR-310-S...anyone got one? Firewire to computer?

[Coluph]

Well the capture card woes are hitting me and I'm looking for a solution. ATI isn't it.

I was in the store and saw a stand alone DVD Recorder that has really caught my eye. The sales people of course had no clue about it and had no clue where the manual was (and you need a password to see it on Pioneers website...really stupid) So, hopefully someone here knows or has tried one of these.

On the front there is a plug called DV in/out which looks like a standard firewire connector. There is also your typical RCA/SVHS combo input.

If I plug a VCR into the front of this unit, and the firewire into my computer, will it double as a firewire DV converter? This would allow me to edit the video on the computer, do titles edit commercials and whatnot if needed, and either put it back to the DVD Recorder, or use my DVD-R in my computer.

If it does this I'm probably going to fork out the $600 and get one...capture cards aren't worth the frustration, and the unit's with hard drives are too expensive.

[donpedro]

Not an answer that you are looking for but here is what is in manual:

Important
This jack is for connection to DV equipment only. It is
not compatible with digital satellite tuners or D-VHS
video decks.

The source signal must be DVC-SD format

Recording from the DV output
You can record non-copy-protected material from a DVD
to a camcorder connected to the DV IN/OUT jack.

1 Connect the camcorder to the DV IN/OUT jack of this recorder.
2 Find the place you want to start recording from.
3 Start recording on the camcorder.
4 Play the source material.

[j_b]

Well the capture card woes are hitting me and I'm looking for a solution. ATI isn't it.

I was in the store and saw a stand alone DVD Recorder that has really caught my eye. The sales people of course had no clue about it and had no clue where the manual was (and you need a password to see it on Pioneers website...really stupid) So, hopefully someone here knows or has tried one of these.

On the front there is a plug called DV in/out which looks like a standard firewire connector. There is also your typical RCA/SVHS combo input.

If I plug a VCR into the front of this unit, and the firewire into my computer, will it double as a firewire DV converter? This would allow me to edit the video on the computer, do titles edit commercials and whatnot if needed, and either put it back to the DVD Recorder, or use my DVD-R in my computer.

If it does this I'm probably going to fork out the $600 and get one...capture cards aren't worth the frustration, and the unit's with hard drives are too expensive.

I put your question to the test on my 510, not using the hdd. Played a vhs tape on svhs vcr. Hooked up an s cable to the front s unput on the 510, selected L2 for the 510's input, then ran firewire from the dv in/out plug on the 510, to my breakout box of DVD 500, to import it to Premier on computer. Premier would not receive the signal.

Tried burning to a -R disk, at the same time,while using the same setup. Computer woudl not accept signal.
This solution seems like a lot of work, but it would work if you burn your original vhs footage to a disk, then play the disk, the computer will now accept the signal. You can edit on the computer, then send it back to the burner via firewire to another disk. You would be creating one extra step to get your footage into computer. If you had the 510, you would dump the vhs footage on the HDD, then into computer.
Machine will go back and forth to computer via firewire. Hope I read your question right and solved your dilema.

[donpedro]

So let me sumarize. You can send signal through FireWire to PC and you were able successfuly tested. Right ?

[piano632]

You have to record onto the DVD/HDD before you can output thru firewire (it does not do analog-to-DV pass-thru).

I've done this using the Sharp recorder which is very similar to the Pioneer. But once you record to disc, it is in MPEG2 format, which then has to be converted to DV format for firewire output, then if you send the edited video back to the recorder, you are converting from DV to MPEG2 again. You must realize that you will be loosing quality because you are converting back and forth between MPEG2 and DV.

The solution I'm now using is to record the disc on the Pioneer (or whichever recorder you have), finalize it, extract the contents of the disc on your PC drive, edit with TMPGEnc DVD Author or Womble MPEG2VCR, and burn on PC with authoring software that accepts AC-3 audio. This way you do not lose any quality over the original because nothing is converted or re-encoded.

[j_b]

So let me sumarize. You can send signal through FireWire to PC and you were able successfuly tested. Right ?

Yes, I have gone to pc via firewire and back, at least on the 510..

[rhegedus]

w.r.t. 'capturing' the video from the Pioneer HD to PC, I think someone mentioned the possibility of loss in conversion from the mpeg2 on the Pioneer HD to DV on the PC for editing and then to mpeg2 on the PC for final authoring.

I've done a few quick tests going from a mpeg source @ 8000kbps to DV and back to mpeg @ 8000kbps and can't see any loss in quality.

Admitedly these are high bitrates we're talking about with the possibility of some redundancy in the data, but the first signs are promising. I'll do some more tests over the holidays.

[donpedro]

I've done a few quick tests going from a mpeg source @ 8000kbps to DV and back to mpeg @ 8000kbps and can't see any loss in quality.

You are probably right and I would not see difference eather, but you must agree that there is loss. You are compressing data already compressed.

[rhegedus]

I don't know enough about lossy/lossless codecs to know this for sure but DV, at 13Gb/hr, seems to be overkill in the codec depatrment esp when you consider that you can get original looking results with other codecs using lower bitrates.

We can assume that not all the 13Gb/hr is needed - but either way, we can also assume that all the data from the original mpeg video is in the DV stream. So we can ussume that as all the relevant video data is present, the original can be reproduced exactly provided the mpeg encoder can sort out the wheat from the chaff.

I think this holds true for high bitrates, but I'm not so sure about low bitrates i.e. EP mode mpegs.

[donpedro]

OK... let me try this...

I believe that you can compare whole process to this

1. you have picture in JPG compressed format
2. you will covert that to TIFF compressed format
3. do editing
4. convert to JPG compressed format

There must be loss even if you don't do any editing... Am I right ? And I am not talking if I can see it....

[solarfox]

I don't know enough about lossy/lossless codecs to know this for sure but DV, at 13Gb/hr, seems to be overkill in the codec depatrment esp when you consider that you can get original looking results with other codecs using lower bitrates.

Perhaps, if you're only thinking in terms of the final product. Yes, as an end-product codec, DV may be overkill, but that's not what it's made for. DV is made to allow for quick frame-addressable editing, and is designed to retain as much detail as practical -- even so-called "invisible" detail -- for later editing. The extra detail of the DV codec might not seem important when you're just looking at the captured video as-is, but if you start trying to apply color corrections or other effects to the video, it might suddenly become very important.

[rhegedus]

OK... let me try this...

I believe that you can compare whole process to this

1. you have picture in JPG compressed format
2. you will covert that to TIFF compressed format
3. do editing
4. convert to JPG compressed format

There must be loss even if you don't do any editing... Am I right ? And I am not talking if I can see it....

I see your point.

I was thinking along the lines of mpegs and DV being analogous to zip files and unzipped files.

Once I get back to my PC at home, I'll do some more work on it. I have to really - I've gone down the rocky path of thinking about a product that I will end up buying just to see if it can be done!

[rhegedus]

Perhaps, if you're only thinking in terms of the final product. Yes, as an end-product codec, DV may be overkill, but that's not what it's made for. DV is made to allow for quick frame-addressable editing, and is designed to retain as much detail as practical -- even so-called "invisible" detail -- for later editing. The extra detail of the DV codec might not seem important when you're just looking at the captured video as-is, but if you start trying to apply color corrections or other effects to the video, it might suddenly become very important.

I am thinking about end product, but point taken.