Dropping 100s of frames!!! Please help!!!

[Matteo693]

Hi, I'm trying to capture VHS with Virtual Dub at full resolution (720x576), but am getting shitloads of dropped frames! Capturing at any lower resolution is OK - zero dropped frames. However quality is crap! I've tried capturing at 384x576 (with 2:1 vertical reduction) = looks like crap, stupid dots everywhere. I have had great success at capturing movies less than 80mins at the smaller VCD resolution. But I wanna burn to DVD! I'm tearing my hair out over this! I'm using XP, P4, WinFast A280 card, 512MB RAM, 80GB HD, with an AC'97 onboard soundcard... As far as I'm aware I have my system tweaked to optimum performance, all unnecessary processes shut down, etc... Can anybody PLEEEEASE advise me? Do I have to go into the guts of my computer & tweak some BIOS settings? What is possibly wrong? Surely my system is powerful enough to handle full-resolution capture? (PS: I have same problem when trying to capture with Ulead Video Studio 6 that came bundled with my DVD burner - 100s of dropped frames! With UVS6, however, I can capture reasonable quality direct to MPEG2 with no or minimal dropped frames, however I like to use Virtual Dub filters to enhance the quality, which I can't do with a MPEG file!). PLEASE HELP!? Thanks...

[Matteo693]

Sorry for doubling up on my message...not sure what happened there!? Please delete the 2nd one - thanks.

[johns0]

One thing i found with virtualdub when you capture is you have to have the framerate at the same as your source (29.97).A hair off and i was dropping frames like crazy.

[Matteo693]

Hmmm...good point, except I'm dealing with PAL...25fps! Any other ideas?

[Turtle49]

I'm not using the exact setup you are, but the only time I drop frames is when my hard drive needs defragging.

I hope this helps.

[Matteo693]

Thanks, but nah buddy, that ain't the problem!

Any other suggestions????

[luigi2000]

What is the technology of a Winfast A280 card? You need a card that is supported with a high quality wdm capture driver. I can recommend any Nvidia VIVO video card. Nvidia uses Philips ADC technology. Also I cannot second the idea that onboard audio is a good quality situation.

What video compressor are you using? I recommend PIC Video MJPEG codec. It costs $28. You will drop frames attempting to capture a media stream at more than about eight megabytes per second.

Also I recommend the modified version of Virtualdub called Virtualdub Sync. This synchronizes the audio clock with the video clock and eliminates dropping a frame every three or four minutes that happens without this necessary synchronization.

Bona fortuna.

[cdb]

Do you have DMA access to your HD turned on? I installed a new HD and had hundreds of dropped frames until I did this.

See instructions at:

http://www.ati.com/support/faq/winxp/winxpconfigenabledma.html

[Matteo693]

Thanks for the responses, people!

But...YES I have DMA enabled...and YES I have been using Virtual Dub Sync (as well as the standard Virtual Dub) - still dropping frames!

As for the technology of my graphics card, hmmm, well I'm not too sure? But I think it's pretty good. It's a Leadtek WinFast A280 Geforce 4 VIVO...

(I should point out that YES I have read through all the stuff at the start of this forum about dropped frames, have read in fact COUNTLESS articles & guides... I'm only posting up this problem as a last resort!).

OK, one thing I haven't tried: capturing video WITHOUT audio. I'll try that and report back. Maybe it's a problem with the soundcard???

In the meantime, any other suggestions are WELCOME!!!!!!!!?????????
Thanks!

[almostaborted]

open up windows task manager and then start capturing

do you see anything else using your cpu?

i had a problem with viruses (something with scvhost.exe) using my cpu every 20 seconds or so causing my computer to lag...i didn't notice it with just regular use and my antivirus did not detect it either...

[Matteo693]

Thanks! I'll try that & report back. I really wanna knock this on the head once and for all. Looking around various forums, I can see that it's a widespread problem.

[Matteo693]

Hi "Almost Aborted"! Hey, you might be onto something here! I'm not too clued in about running task manager (??sorry, how do I do this??), however I have found "svchost.exe" on my hard drive. Is this a virus?? If so, what can I do??

I have, by the way, tried capturing without audio...STILL dropping 100s of frames!!!

Any further ideas on this matter? Almost Aborted? Anybody?

I really wanna get to the bottom of this, for my sake & everybody else's out there!!!!!

[Matteo693]

Ermm...yeah OK I figure "svchost.exe" ain't a virus but an integral part of Windows, heh... So that ain't the problem.

I opened up task manager & started capturing...the only things eating up CPU was Virtual Dub (~10-20) and System Idle Process (~90s).

System Idle Process looks pretty high to me...? But then, what would I know?

Any further comments/suggestions???

Why is it I can capture at lower resolutions, but only get dropped frames (100s of 'em) at full resolution (720x576)?? Surely my system is up for the task??? Or is it that I need more RAM, or a 2nd HD??????? Or WHAT??

AAAAAARRGGGHHHHH!!!!!!!! I'm losing it over this!!!!!!!!!!

Please help!!!

[Champion_R]

System Idle Process is all the CPU time thats not being used, in other words %age of CPU free. Have you tried VirtualVCR or iuVCR?

[Matteo693]

Thanks Champion, you're a champ. No I must admit I haven't tried these 2 app's! But I'll test 'em out & report back, OK?

I've only tried VDub, VDub Sync, Ulead VS6, and the WinPVR that comes with my card...all to no avail.

[sacajaweeda]

Thanks, but nah buddy, that ain't the problem!

Have you tried it?

[Dragonsf]

What compression are you using for capture?Uncompressed capture with such framesize can't be done without drops even on modern HDD, ie. a stream 31MByte/Sec isn't possible.Use huffy or mjpeg as compression.
And there is Audio too.

[johns0]

Are you capturing audio uncompressed?

[Matteo693]

Sacajaweeda: YEP, I defrag all the time, especially before any attempts at capture!

Also, YEP, I have been using huffyuv (sorry, I SHOULD have pointed that out before!!! My apologies!). I haven't tried any other compression methods, however.

And finally, YEP: I capture with uncompressed PCM audio (CD quality)...However I still get 100s of dropped frames when capturing WITHOUT audio!!!??

I appreciate the responses, please keep them coming! In the meantime I will try out VirtualVCR and see if that helps...!? I will definitely post up any new developments!!!

(Just to remind you, my aim is to capture VHS at FULL RESOLUTION (720x576 PAL) and burn to DVD. My system is tweaked to optimum as far as I am aware, and I have virus protection too! Really don't understand why my system rejects FULL RES capture???)

[johns0]

Turn off your virus protection to see if its slowing down the capture,might be the cause.

[lordsmurf]

my aim is to capture VHS at FULL RESOLUTION (720x576 PAL)

Why? Your VHS source is about 250x576 at most. Capturing 352x576 will be more than enough to retain all data.

Your system may not handle Full D1 without dropping. One of mine is the same way.

[proxyx99]

First: try to see if application related (try different ones).
2nd. Have you called Leadtek and asked what can you reasonably expect as well as what to observe while capturing? Go Google and check for other postings about this card (you may find the answer there).
3rd. Narrow down capture formats causing issues as well as associated bitrates (must be high, probably).
4th. Check your winXP drivers (WMD), directX etc. (reinstall)
5th. create empty partition and capture to it (faster then with lots of stuff)
6th. check device manager for IRQ issues (if Leadtek on the same IRQ with 10 other devices like sound, USB etc. etc. they will interrupt for access). Disable some or move them around and check what happens.

Best way to start: set Bios to optimized defaults, disable network, usb, firewire, scanner, webcam etc leaving video and sound only. Try then. Most likely will work, then keep on adding. If not, check for software\XP related issues (reinstall directX and capture software, check for codec upgrades (may be crippled). Most likely simple issue. Typical for improperly maintained, set up or cluttered system.

[overloaded_ide]

Sounds like everything I can think of has already been suggested or you tried already, but I got a question.

Why are you so set on full resolution 720x576 PAL for a VHS capture?
I don't know anything about PAL, but I expect VHS is close to the same for either format. (forgot what ours is called )

Anyway VHS is only about 352x480 (USA standard), so anything over that is waisted anyway and then you have to have much higher bit rates to maintain the same quality. Higher the resolution the more resources needed to store the same info in the same quality. Since your source is alittle below 352x480, that is the closest you can get. Then you have much smaller files and better quality with the lower bit rates. VHS is the best you can get from a VHS tape, though with tons of work and filters you might improve just a tad with the PC.

Normally I capture directly to mpeg2 files myself then author and burn. With 352x480 I will get as good as the tape was, can't tell which your watching unless you know whats running (VHS or DVD player).

As for the macro blocks and such, that's most likely you not getting enough info for the resolution your capturing at and thats controlled by bitrates (at least with mpeg2 captures, been forever since I did AVI)
Too low a bit rate is going to cause macro blocks and other problems, and you need the higher rates then for higher resolutions. I do pretty good at 4,000bps at 352x480 but I normally capture at 6,000 anyway unless I need the extra time on the disk then I lower the rates to stretch the play time.

I hope you find why your dropping all the frames, and post back the answer too! Might help others
In the mean time you might want to try a capture at what ever is the PAL setting (equal) for 352x480 resolution and if your able to set the capture bitrates try 5,000 to 6,000bps. You should have the same quality as your tape.

Good luck.

[Matteo693]

Thanks, guys. This forum rocks!

Ok - firstly yep I disable virus protection before capturing! (--and screensavers, firewalls, etc etc)...

Hmm...resolutions...well, I figure I have to go the whole hog (720x576) in order to achieve good results on DVD!? Capturing at a lower resolution is swell for VCD - and I've achieved excellent results!!! - but to capture at a lower res, then burn to DVD...well, the quality sux!!! Yes, yes, I know: garbage in, garbage out, and all that. That's not really the issue here. The issue is, I can capture at 352x288 (for PAL) and burn to VCD, with great results, as good if not better than the VHS source!!! But if, say, I capture at 384x576, or 384x288, or whatever, and then burn to DVD, the quality is shocking, real blurry & heaps worse than the VHS source!!! I figure I have to capture at a high res (eg 720x576) in order to achieve satisfactory transfer to DVD!? I know I can capture my VHS tapes with great quality at a lower resolution, and it looks great on my monitor, but then the problem becomes burning it to DVD - all that great quality disappears!

Or am I barking up the wrong tree here????

Anyhow, there's a few suggestions here I will try. OF COURSE I will post my results!!!!

Thanks again for the responses!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Matteo693]

By the way, I just tried Virtual VCR - still dropped frames I'm afraid!!!!!!!

[Will Hay]

But if, say, I capture at 384x576, or 384x288, or whatever, and then burn to DVD, the quality is shocking, real blurry & heaps worse than the VHS source!!! I figure I have to capture at a high res (eg 720x576) in order to achieve satisfactory transfer to DVD!? I know I can capture my VHS tapes with great quality at a lower resolution, and it looks great on my monitor, but then the problem becomes burning it to DVD - all that great quality disappears!

I don't follow this.
I think the point is that you won't gain anything by capturing at anything over 352 x 576 for DVD quality VHS captures.
VHS is no better than than this and you won't gain any better quality.
I know you say the quality is shit but have you burnt to a DVDr yet to test on your standalone player?
I haven't seen you answer yet, what codec are you using?
Like the original poster mentioned I too use the MJPEG PicVideo codec, I always found the huffyuv too intensive, but that's just my opinion.
Again, my opinion, I'm of the school which believes one of the first priorities of capture is a second HDD, (quick) formatted before each capture (no storage, no nothing, just capture).
I haven't seen this in the two threads but are you dropping one hundred's of frames per minute, per hour, what?
Will

[clanger]

I assume that when you've captured at 352x288 and then converted your captured AVI to MPEG1 to burn as a VCD you've not had to do any resizing. However when you've tried to convert the AVI captured at this low resolution to an MPEG2 for DVD you've been trying to resize it to the max DVD resolution ?
Surely this is bound to give you a shite picture, you're trying to add data that simply isn't there !
What sort of quality do you get if you capture at 325x288, use TMPGenc to convert to an MPEG2 at the same resolution - choose the best settings for motion estimate etc - then burn onto a DVD ?

I would have thought that a DVD at 352x288, should still be a better than a VCD at the same resolution, using the same source material. If the VCD looks good on a TV, then the DVD should be just as good.
It'll never be as good as a commercial DVD simply because a VHS source is so much worse to sart with !

[Dragonsf]

As VCD is somewhat limited regarding bitrate, why not use SVCD?
After all, there is something like SVCD2DVD, which certainly does the best to get such material on to DVD without quality degration.This way, you can have up to 6 hours on 1 DVD.

[proxyx99]

Guys, some of you are missing the point. Let me illustrate it.
You buy a car that's suppossed to go 120mph. You want to know if it can do that just for the sake of: knowing it can, 2. knowing whether the product you bought delivers on the promise prooving it's mechanically sound.
You want to try it, but some say: what's the point? max highway speed is 65mph, no need, dangerous, slippery, you'll be better of driving slower.
Suppose you are a proud owner of your dream car and that's what you wanted to do for a long time. Would you drive 65 and forget your dream or try to find a way to fulfill it?
The question was simple: how can he get full frame capture to work flawlessly? That's it. No other scenarios here. So please don't tell him that he'll be better of with a smaller frame. He's looking for a place to go full throttle, so try to find one for him instead of asking why.

[marvel2020]

Well proxy another pointless post from you i see.


Capturing at 720x576 you will always drop frames, but the way he's dropping them leads me to believe that the VHS source he's capturing from, is of poor quality, and very noisey as well.

The only way around it i can see, is to use a TBC. I also don't think he's tried a Proper Sound Card, and disabled his onboard shit.