Problems with ATI MMC

[rb26dett]

I have a strange issue that keeps popping up for me.

I have an ATI AIW 9800 Pro that I use with ATI's latest MMC to capture live TV. It seems that when I capture (either with AVI(divx/huffyuv) or MPEG2) it works fine. I can open up the files with media player or other fileplayer and it works perfectly fine.

However when I use VirtualDub (or VirtualDubMod with the MPEG 2) to open the file it is usually synched for a while but at some point gets desynched and continues to become more desynched over time. This doesn't seem to happen when caping with VirtualDub but I havn't used it nearly as much so it might just be a fluke. It is not a problem with dropped frames or encoding speed (MMC reports no dropped frames and my system barly breaks 10% during encoding, or %30 with divx).

Anyone have a thought? I would use virtual dub all the time except it lacks the scheduling abilities of MMC, as well as it's not very friendly to watch during recording or as quick to set up if I see something I want to cap.

[presto]

It would be nice if an mpg is an mpg is an mpg but that doesn't seem to be so. mpgs made with one program at the same settings as another program do not seem to be exactly the same. I also noticed that when I cut out parts of an mpg with ulead video studio the resulting mpg will play fine if I use ulead to author it but will go out of sync if I use Tmpgenc DVD Author. If the mpg works in one, shouldn't it work in all?

Sorry I don't know the answer to this. My way of dealing with it is to stick to one program as much as possible so I edit, and author with Tmpgenc DVD Author.

[lordsmurf]

With an ATI card, best capture program is ATI MMC and best MPEG editor is Womble MPEG VCR (MPEG2 edition).

[rb26dett]

Hmmm so if the problem is within VirtualDub what program should I use to convert the MPEG-2 output files to DivX?

Is there anyway to schedule records in VirtualDub? That is the easiest solution I guess.

[presto]

go to the virtual dub forum and search information on the version of virtual dub that allows scheduled captures. It is a modification that someone made. I used it for a while but now I use MMC.

[lordsmurf]

Hmmm so if the problem is within VirtualDub what program should I use to convert the MPEG-2 output files to DivX?

Is there anyway to schedule records in VirtualDub? That is the easiest solution I guess.

Dr DIVX did fine for me the one time I used it.

[huntingtheasphyx]

I use Gordian Knot for all MMC Mpeg2 Captures and encode the audio seperately with BeSweet - making it possible to edit out adverts easily (if you set it up right).

Never had any problems with it.
Since it uses DVD2AVI to demux the audio there is greater flexibility.

However it is tricky for beginners, the plus side being accurate output file sizes.

For convenience and simplicity Lord Smurf is right with Dr DiVX. Not sure how it is with getting an exact file size, say 700Mb.

[rb26dett]

Thanks for all of the ideas guys!

I got the trial version of Dr DivX and it worked perfectly. I don't plan on spending $40 US on it though or trolling around for a 'free' version. I just wanted to confirm the problem was with the encode and not the capture.

I will try the Gordian Knot (hopefully like the legend I'll be able to cut down this problem with a knife as this program's name suggests. I love references like this :P ) and BeSweet programs. I'd rather fiddle around a bit with some powerful freeware then fork over my hard earned cash.

[rb26dett]

Yikes these are a little complicated!

Any guides or anything out there?

I'm having trouble even getting my .mpeg file imported into Gordian! Have to spend some more time going through docs I guess!

[rb26dett]

Steps:
1) Used vstrip to get a .vob file from my .mpeg file which plays perfectly fine.
2) Made a .dv2 file and a .mpa sound track with DVD2AVI

Now what do I do? When I try to encode I just get an uncompressed .avi file??

Below is my log file. Sorry about length!

16/12/2003 5:01:08 AM: Job "Test" started.
 
o  DivX5-First Pass:          C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avs
o  DivX5 - Pass 2:            C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avs
x  Mux Audio (disabled).
End of Job 1 (Test).
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________
 
Gordian Knot -
Encoding Job Data:
 
Type:               EncD5_All
Number:             1
Name:               Test
Platform:           WinXP (5.1.2600).2

Files:
VirtualDubModExe:   C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\VirtualDubMod\VirtualDubMod.exe
NandubExe:          C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\nandub\Nandub.exe
AviFinal:           C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avi
AviMovie:           C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj_Movie.avi
AviCredits:         C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj_Credits.avi
MovieFS:            C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avs
CreditsFS:          
Log :               C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.log
Stats:              C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.stats
Ecf :               C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.ecf

Options:
Quality/DRF:        0
CreditsStart:       0
UseEcf:             1
CreditsIVTC:        0
CreditsAppend:      0
DeleteInterm.:      0
EnforceBitrate:     0
AntiShit:           0

Calculator:
VideoSize:          6431 kbyte.
Audio1Size:         1724 kbyte.
Audio2Size:         0 kbyte.
Overhead:           106 kbyte.
AviSize:            8262 kbyte (8 mbyte).
FilesSize:          0 kbyte.
TotalSize:          8262 kbyte (8 mbyte).
Interleaving:       1stream
Bitrate:            717 k(=1000)Bits/s
Frames:             2203
FPS:                29.970
Duration:           01:14
Quality:            0.078 bits/(pixel*frame).
CompCheck3:         0.000 bits/(pixel*frame).
CompCheck5:         0.000 bits/(pixel*frame).
Resolution:         640 x 480

Audio 1:            
none.               

Audio 2:            
none.               
 
5:01:08 AM: Audio 1, calc:           1724 kb
5:01:08 AM: Audio 1, disabled, no recalc. - you probably want to add this track later.

Adding this script to C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\VirtualDubMod\LastJob.vcf :

// $job "DivX5-First Pass"
// $input "C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avs"
// $output "C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avi"
// $state 0
// $start_time 0 0
// $end_time 0 0
// $script

VirtualDub.Open("C:\\Documents and Settings\\Chris Sjostrom\\Desktop\\VCR\\Test\\ukj.avs",0,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetDepth(24,24);
VirtualDub.video.SetMode(1);
VirtualDub.video.SetFrameRate(0,1);
VirtualDub.video.SetIVTC(0,0,-1,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetRange(0,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetCompression(0x78766964,0,10000,0);
VirtualDub.video.filters.Clear();
VirtualDub.subset.Delete();
VirtualDub.SaveAVI("C:\\Documents and Settings\\Chris Sjostrom\\Desktop\\VCR\\Test\\ukj.avi");
VirtualDub.Close();

// $endjob
//
//--------------------------------------------------
// $done

5:01:08 AM: Started   DivX5-First Pass: C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avs
5:02:03 AM: Finished  DivX5-First Pass: Duration: 54 seconds.
5:02:03 AM: Trying to open Log-file.
5:02:03 AM: Error: Could not open C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\vdenc.log
5:02:03 AM: Error: Could not count encoded Frames.
5:02:03 AM: Speed:    211493.009 Frames per Second.
5:02:03 AM: WARNING: Number of counted frames differs from settings!
5:02:03 AM: WARNING: Settings:      2203
5:02:03 AM: WARNING: Counted:       0
5:02:03 AM: WARNING: Difference:    2203
5:02:03 AM: Correcting Bitrate...
5:02:03 AM: Original Bitrate = 717 k(=1000)Bits/s
5:02:03 AM: Error: Correction impossible.
5:02:03 AM: Now encoding at 717 k(=1000)Bits/s

Adding this script to C:\PROGRA~1\GORDIA~1\VirtualDubMod\LastJob.vcf :

// $job "DivX5-Second Pass"
// $input "C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avs"
// $output "C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avi"
// $state 0
// $start_time 0 0
// $end_time 0 0
// $script

VirtualDub.Open("C:\\Documents and Settings\\Chris Sjostrom\\Desktop\\VCR\\Test\\ukj.avs",0,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetDepth(24,24);
VirtualDub.video.SetMode(1);
VirtualDub.video.SetFrameRate(0,1);
VirtualDub.video.SetIVTC(0,0,-1,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetRange(0,0);
VirtualDub.video.SetCompression(0x78766964,0,10000,0);
VirtualDub.video.filters.Clear();
VirtualDub.subset.Delete();
VirtualDub.SaveAVI("C:\\Documents and Settings\\Chris Sjostrom\\Desktop\\VCR\\Test\\ukj.avi");
VirtualDub.Close();

// $endjob
//
//--------------------------------------------------
// $done

5:02:03 AM: Started   DivX5 - Pass: 2: C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avs
5:02:57 AM: Finished  DivX5 - Pass: 2: Duration: 54 seconds.
5:02:57 AM: Speed:    0.000 Frames per Second.

5:02:57 AM: Done.
5:02:57 AM: Movie = C:\Documents and Settings\Chris Sjostrom\Desktop\VCR\Test\ukj.avi
Total Encoding Time: 1 minute, 48 seconds.
16/12/2003 5:02:57 AM: Job "Test" finished.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

[huntingtheasphyx]

OK you're capturing Mpeg2 right?

Firstly you dont need to use vstrip to convert the file to a vob,
all you need to do in DVD2AVI is in the open window, change the default file type to open to "all files (*.*)" - then you can open the MPEG2 file directly.

Secondly, from that log file Gordian Knot could not open the log file to do the second pass, which suggests it couldnt do the first pass properly. The only thing I can think of right now is that after converting it using vstrip it couldnt be read properly with VirtualDub.

Also on this small test you've done you've set a credits point, try not having one for the time being, see if that helps, cos I only see one .avs file, not 2 (movie and credits).

[lacywest]

I do have the ATI AIW 7500 works nice.

But I also have the Canopus ADVC 50 installed too.

For video capture ... I use Intervideo WinDVD Creator 2 ... no audio sync problems.

Both capture cards appear for me to choose from.

Check your PM posts ... I sent you a personal message.

[rb26dett]

Thanks for the responses guys, I posted before that I fixed the problem but I guess it didn't go through.

Turns out when I uninstalled Dr. DivX it messed up the DivX codec, a re-install solved the problem.

So right now I'm using MMC to capture MPEG2 (which seems to not have any problems, unlike capping in AVI or MPEG) and then using GordianKnot to convert to DivX. Results are always great, I'm trying to learn now how to edit out commercials with DVD2AVI and BeSweet before I encode (huntingtheasphyx sent me a good PM on this), it's a little tricky.

[huntingtheasphyx]

I decided that it may be useful to others to try my method for commercial editing using Gordian Knot, so....deep breath......



I actually do all editing in DVD2AVI.

Say its an hour show and there are three ad breaks, I have 3 seperate encodes to do through Gordian Knot.

DVD2AVI works very similarly to VitrualDub to edit bits out, ie the start and finish poits of a selection.

I make sure that I leave a couple of mouse clicks into the adverts to avoid audio synch problems (just trim the end off each avi output after encode and before joining all three).

When you save each part you get the associated .mpa audio file to go with it with a delay amount. this is important for getting your synch right.

Also the way DVD2AVI seeks is via I frames, like Keyframes in an avi file, (generally the block goes IPPBPPBPP-I.......)
so if your ad break finishes and your show begins again on a P frame or a B frame, you'll want to discard those first few that'll look horrible in the middle of your final product.

To do this I use the "Set Credits Start" option in the GK preview window, just set the start of "credits" to the opening frame of part 2 of your show, then at Save and Encode, select "Credits Only"
I generally rename what would be "*_Credits.avs" to "*_part2.avs"
After this the Add job window comes up, make sure your "*.part2.avs" appears in the Frame Server selection (top right).
Do not add the audio - this will be done seperately with BeSweet.

Add all parts in a similar way, editing when necessary...start encoding..


For the audio side you'll need to manually change the delay for each part of the show.
If you did trim a few frames for a part you will need to calculate the correct delay for that part, otherwise you'll get severe synch issues again.

Say Audio_part1 has delay of -80ms and you had to trim a few frames off the start because of lingering adverts, open up the associated .avs file in notepad and look at line 21, just under TRIM, usually it says #trim(startframe,endframe), but if your credits start at frame 5 it would read #trim(5,endframe).

To calcualte the actual delay for this part is pretty easy, using the numbers here (current delay -80ms and trim 5 frames)

For PAL = 25fps
(trimmed frames / 25)
5/25 = 0.2
(-80ms = -.080 seconds)
-0.080 - 0.2 = -0.280

For NTSC = 29.970
(trimmed frames / 29.970)
5/29.970 = 0.167
(-80ms = -.080 seconds)
-0.080 - 0.167 = -0.247

So the number to enter into BeSweet for Delay is either

280 for PAL or 247 for NTSC (note - do not include decimal point in the GUI)

then convert it to wav or mp3 and join each of the audio to their respective video parts...

you can then combine them in VirtualDub, I actually use Nandub to avoid error messages, remembering to trim the end off each part before joining the next one.

Output should be exactly what you wanted, edited to perfection.


By the way...to get the file size right...simply open each .d2v part in GK and note its length, then add them up and manually enter in the time, and you should see the correct bitrate to set each part to.

When doing each part make sure you enter this bitrate into each of Gk profiles and not just leave it in "Calculate Average Bitrate Mode".

[lordsmurf]

ATI MMC 8.8 does MPEG-4 capture now. I've not tested, but maybe you should.