Computer used as a PVR?

[PolarBearWY]

In fact, as we speak, we are capturing video. And connected to the Internet via DSL. And connected to the other machines via LAN. With espn.com, foxnews.com, the FOX News ticker, Outlook Express 6, and two different windows of Word open and running.

...

PolarBear is correct. And I noticed only programs that are not necessarily resource-intense/CPU-intense were included. I've never tried to burn a DVD during the other frivolities. Interesting...

Drive configuration can be a pretty important issue when it comes to multi-tasking and capturing. Having two different drives on the two different controller channels can make life alot easier.

And that can be the biggest factor. My capture drive is a dedicated, NTFS partition that covers the entire 30GB of one physical drive. With no IDE or ATAPI devices on the cable.

Exactly. My point wasn't to say that I could get my computer to rebuild my Honda's engine while capturing video. I was just trying to illustrate that just because you are capturing doesn't mean that you computer is suddenly made of ice, so easy to break.

(By the way, I was also connected to the LAN via wireless and most likely had eDonkey running with about 200+ connections. I didn't verify that eDonkey was running, but it rarely isn't.)

And again... the hard drives aren't necessarily breakable material simply because the computer is capturing. I'm using a 45GB HD (probably a 5400) as the system disc and have a 7200 120GB HD slaved on the same channel. I have about 7GB free on the system disc and about 9 GB free on the 120GB drive. If your computer can handle it, you don't need a separate monster drive. You don't necessarily need RAID. You don't necessarily need the drive to have its own channel. You don't necessarily need a 10000 RPM SATA drive.

Bottom line- Try before you buy. If your system can't handle the video capture you want it to do, then make some changes. But try first. You might be surprised.

Before I got my capture card, I read post after post after post where people said "RAID helps" and "buy a separate, large HD", etc. I'm really glad I didn't spend the money before I tried it. Shoot, even at 30 GB/hr, that's only 8 MB/s. A Pentium II should be able to handle that -- without RAID. But, let's not get into a RAID debate. I'm just trying to illustrate that there is no ONE ANSWER.

Of course, I seem to have one of the faster rigs in these forums. Most systems I see that people have are in the 1.2 GHz range, and there are a lot of AMD systems out there that are slower than that. So maybe that's why I'm having no problems ignoring all the system tips. Got me!

[indolikaa]

You don't necessarily need RAID. You don't necessarily need the drive to have its own channel. You don't necessarily need a 10000 RPM SATA drive.

I would agree with that. I see you noticed in my sentence I used the word 'can' and not 'is' when discussing the separate channels. Each situation is unique; there is not one fix for all situations.

I doubt a 200 GHz (yeah, GHz) computer with 632,246,563 GB of PC800,000,000,000 DQDQDQDR RAM could run Medal of Honor and capture video. I'd say the limitations are in our OS, not the computer.

I would agree with that. I wonder how well a Linux system would run Medal of Honor (if the game was available in Linux) and capture video?

But, let's not get into a RAID debate.

Oh, come on! We had so much fun last time.

[mracer]

I am into video, computers, DVD making, and video production like all of you, but I must say that using a PC as a PVR is a complete waste of time. The "best" PVR on the market is any one of the DirecTV PVR's (formerly known as DirecTivo's). Any other option or device is a compromise of the highest degree.

The Hughes DirecTV PVR with 35 hours of storage can be had at any time at Circuit City for $99, even for current subscribers. The picture quality is the same as the original DirecTV signal and the units can be upgraded to 200 hours of storage or more. You can record 2 things at once while watching or capturing a third. If you want to have the video in other formats on a PC or make DVD's, you can either capture analog from the DirecTV PVR or hack the unit to extract digital video over a network. For a a $500 investment (2 DirectTV PVR's, multiswitch, satellite dish, and hard drive upgrades) you could have a system that can record 4 shows at once, watch or capture 2 other shows at the same time, and store several hundred hours of video.

If you value your sanity and time, do not waste a moment trying to "make" a PVR with a PC, a stand alone Tivo, or ReplayTV unit. The integrated DirecTV PVR is the only way to fly and soon will be flying in high definition. There will be an HD DirecTV PVR in 2004 with 4, yes, I said 4 tuners. Two HD and SD DirecTV tuners and two "off-air" HD tuners. You will be able to record from any two of those tuners at the same time while watching a third HD program.

[gcutler]

Of course, I seem to have one of the faster rigs in these forums. Most systems I see that people have are in the 1.2 GHz range, and there are a lot of AMD systems out there that are slower than that. So maybe that's why I'm having no problems ignoring all the system tips. Got me!

And for me that is the problem...Most people out there as you say do not have rigs as fast as yours. So by telling people they can possibly ignore the system tips is leading them in the wrong direction (unless they have similar powerful systems to you). It is fine to define your system and say you can do this or that, but the way you worded your statements you could also have people believing that they can get away with the same ignoring of system tips with Rigs not as fast as you. You may not see it that way, but thats how I read your statements.

Most people out there can't differentiate between most systems, so they see two statements. One listing potential system problems, and then the other saying that those potential system problems are not really worth considering because you in your Superrig can get away with ignoring them. If the original poster had posted his PC specs then alot of the theorhetical argument goes out the window, but which is wiser to assume, that the person has a system like yours or has a system in the middle of the bell curve when trying to make recommendations to them.

[handyguy]

Sure & play through your PS2 with Qcast which comes with all you .

[indolikaa]

Here we go!

I am into video, computers, DVD making, and video production like all of you,

Fun hobby, isn't it.

but I must say that using a PC as a PVR is a complete waste of time.

I disagree.

The "best" PVR on the market is any one of the DirecTV PVR's (formerly known as DirecTivo's). Any other option or device is a compromise of the highest degree.

I completely disagree. On both counts. There are many others who would disagree also.

The Hughes DirecTV PVR with 35 hours of storage can be had at any time at Circuit City for $99, even for current subscribers. The picture quality is the same as the original DirecTV signal and the units can be upgraded to 200 hours of storage or more. You can record 2 things at once while watching or capturing a third. If you want to have the video in other formats on a PC or make DVD's, you can either capture analog from the DirecTV PVR or hack the unit to extract digital video over a network. For a a $500 investment (2 DirectTV PVR's, multiswitch, satellite dish, and hard drive upgrades) you could have a system that can record 4 shows at once, watch or capture 2 other shows at the same time, and store several hundred hours of video.

True.

But we have not established if the original poster even has DirecTV or DiSH Network. You have just written a thesis for a poster who may have digital cable, for all we know. Or maybe even analog cable, or an off-air antenna.

If you value your sanity and time, do not waste a moment trying to "make" a PVR with a PC, a stand alone Tivo, or ReplayTV unit.

I value my time. My sanity went out the window years ago; it's disappearance had nothing to do with my PVR habits.

I don't feel the two computers I have now for satellite PVRing are a wasted investment. Considering I paid far less than $500 for two systems capable of recording programs and burning DVDs at nearly a 2:1 timesplit, I think I'm doing pretty good.

The integrated DirecTV PVR is the only way to fly and soon will be flying in high definition. There will be an HD DirecTV PVR in 2004 with 4, yes, I said 4 tuners. Two HD and SD DirecTV tuners and two "off-air" HD tuners. You will be able to record from any two of those tuners at the same time while watching a third HD program.

A link, please?

[lordsmurf]

I've got an Intel P2 200mhz, 64 MB SDRAM (think it's SD, maybe EDO, not FP), ATI (non-AIW) graphics, 8GB HD, LAN, SB sound, AVerMedia EZ DVD Maker I can put in and not sure on software yet (WinDVR?) ...

... gonna see if it will capture or act as PVR!

Why? Hell, I don't know. Why not?

It's currently a shelf that my 2nd computer sits on, between my desk and the wall. I may as well play with it.

Currently runs Win98SE and Linux

Whoever's talking nonsense about 4 tuners in one receiver needs to remember the limitations per LNB (thing on the dish on the roof).

[gcutler]

I wasn't trying to show that you didn't know what you were talking about. I was thinking more along the lines that you get the cable box that you get. It's not like you can shop for them at your local cable company. Most cities in the US only have one cable company available to residents. Either your cable needs a descrambler or it doesn't. Digital cable requires a descrambler, no? And the issue with satellite capture is moot, too, no? I don't know of any video capture cards that can tune to Dish Network or DirecTV channels without the receivers. That's what I was thinking about.

I was strictly talking about Tuner cards that cannot change the channels on a required Cable Box, Dish or DTV reciever.

And that is when a stand alone TiVo or ReplayTV would be a better choice than a PC PVR. Since a TiVo or ReplayTV will work with just about any cable box or descrambler. I believe that most people are looking for the simplest solution (as opposed to the cheapest solution, up to a point) so my point was that there are times when a PC PVR won't do as well as a Retail PVR.

I'm not locked into recommending only one solution, and feel the poster should know where the PC PVR becomes more a hobbyist toy then a properly functioning PVR. And for the average user, a fully functional PVR involves going into the guide, clicking on the program, and selecting to record and walking away. manually having to change the cablebox/sat reciever or having to also duplicate the steps a 2nd time on the cablebox/satellite does not equal a fully functioning PVR. If the PC PVR does not allow the one step process, I would not recommend it. If you find that acceptable, then that is more the hobbyist than the AVERAGE person looking for a PVR (Lets beat up the original poster for not telling us what he really wants, is he happy at hobbyist level or does he want average user functionality!!! )

[indolikaa]

Why? Hell, I don't know. Why not?

Because you can!

[gcutler]

Whoever's talking nonsense about 4 tuners in one receiver needs to remember the limitations per LNB (thing on the dish on the roof).

But with a Dual-LNB install and the proper multiswitch, 8 recievers, (or 4 Dual Tuner DirectTiVos or Two of those theorhetical 4 tuner machines) is not very exotic these days. Goto DBSforums.com and you will find several 4 DirectTiVo (8 tuner) households (they got the $99 units for every room in the house)

Until recently the satellite companies limited the # of recievers to 6 or so, but now with the DirectTiVos 4 recievers with 8 tuners and 8 cables out of the multiswitch is not very exotic.

This is a link from dish network (can't find the DirectTV one) but it illustrates the capability of 8 tuners (wiring nightmare that it might be)

http://www.dishnetwork.com/downloads/pdf/technology/installation/install-5.pdf

But here is a typical DTV multiswitch that easily allows 8 tuners, wiring diagram a few additional components would still be required to get it all working http://www.dishstore.net/popup_image.php?pID=106

[indolikaa]

I believe that most people are looking for the simplest solution (as opposed to the cheapest solution)

I would think that's the case more often than not. But those standalone PVRs with no satellite tuners are awfully expensive.

Whoever's talking nonsense about 4 tuners in one receiver needs to remember the limitations per LNB (thing on the dish on the roof).

That's why I asked for a link to the forthcoming technology. I was curious to see what kind of dish new owners will get with their 4-tuner IRD.

[gcutler]

I would think that's the case more often than not. But those standalone PVRs with no satellite tuners are awfully expensive.

And that is probably part of what keeps most people (and it is a big majority) from even considering a PVR. Either it is real expensive or too many steps involved to record than they want.

Thats why I agree with the other poster (up to a point), that if

1) You are a DirecTV subscriber
2) You are looking for the cheapest solution
3) You don't have a major need to archive your recordings to DVD via a PC hard Drive

The $99 DirectTiVo is the best solution available.

If a Dishnetwork subscriber, their $200 combo reciever/pvr is also a pretty good deal as well. (Quality control issues, recent PVR fee changes, etc) make it less a deal but still I believe better than a PC PVR.

[mracer]

Lordsmurf, Please do not comment about things of which you know NOTHING!.

You obviously don't know jack about LNB's, DirecTV, or Multiswitches. I currently use a 4x8 DirecTV system multiswitch to send the output of one dual LNB dish to 2 double tuner DirecTivo's and 2 single tuner DirecTV recievers. When you understand how that works get back to me.

As far as 4 tuners in one reciever, yes that is what I said, but your reading comprehension needs some practice. If you re-read my post you will see that I said 2 Hi-def DirecTV tuners and 2 "off-air" Hi-def tuners.

Not that any company would bother making one, but with a multiswitch, there is no reason other than $$$ that there couldn't be an 8 tuner DirecTV reciever connected to a single dual LNB dish.

[indolikaa]

Lordsmurf, Please do not comment about things of which you know NOTHING!.

Oh shit. Here we go...

[mracer]

The $99 DirectTiVo isn't just the best solution available for DirecTV users, it is a reason for those without DirecTV to get it. It really is that good, that cheap, and that awesome.



Please read this everyone. The new HD DirecTV PVR's coming in 2004, will have 4 tuners, but not 4 satellite tuners.

They wiil have 2 high definititon satellite tuners and 2 "off-air" or "broadcast" high definititon tuners.

They will be able to record from any 2 of those tuners at any one time, in any configuration. I.E, 2 satellite programs at once, 2 "off-air" programs at once, or one of each.

The 2 DirecTV tuners will work with standard DirecTV channels as well as high definition DirecTV channels.

The 2 "off-air" tuners will be for digital "high definition" channels only

There will be no NTSC analog tuners

There will be no analog inputs

There will be no built-in DVD burner.

Is everyone clear on this now?

[mracer]

Links, Links, you want links???


http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148525



http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=148545

[indolikaa]

The $99 DirectTiVo isn't just the best solution available for DirecTV users, it is a reason for those without DirecTV to get it. It really is that good, that cheap, and that awesome.

Please leave your DirecTV paystubs at the door, comrade. You need permission from Baldrick before you advertise on this forum.

Please read this everyone. The new HD DirecTV PVR's coming in 2004, will have 4 tuners, but not 4 satellite tuners.

As I requested previously, please post a link so I can learn more about this product.

And I don't want links to some forum, where anonymity and innuendo run rampant. I want links to a manufaturer's website.

Is everyone clear on this now?

No. Please speak in Russian next time.

[gcutler]

I would agree with that. I wonder how well a Linux system would run Medal of Honor (if the game was available in Linux) and capture video?

Actually that is another point for some of the Standalone PVRs and some of the PC PVRs. I feel safer with a PVR that runs Linux, or better yet, I feel safer with a PVR that DOES NOT RUN a MS OS. So a TiVo or PC PVR designed for Linux makes we worry less than others. I'm an MCSE & MCT, I make my bread and butter from working with MS systems, so I know how much better a Linux based PVR should be

"Sorry little Timmy, we can't record Sponge Bob Squarepants, Daddy has to download the 21 newest security patches from MS"

Only problem is a Linux Based PC PVR makes it even more Hobbyist as I would not trust the average user to be able to install and support Linux (they can barely support W9x or W2K or XP)

[mracer]

I don't work for DirecTV or Tivo or any company in the TV or video business. If I worked for DirectTV, I would be in big trouble for speaking publicly about unreleased products on an internet forum.

I am just a regular American guy that enjoys video, computers, and my DirecTivos.

I am not your "comrade" but thanks anyway for that additional insult.

When you find incorrect information or something that turns out to be incorrect information in my posts, please feel free to correct me publicly, right here on this forum. Asking questions, getting answers, and getting corrected by those who know more about a subject is the way we humans learn. There is nothing bad about being corrected.


I found a FAQ post on a forum, no official press releases.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1563320#post1563320

[lordsmurf]

@gcutler
Well, sure you can run switches, I've seen up to 56 boxes off one dish ... but we're talking the average joe here. Most of them have no idea what an LNB is, and even 4-mount switches (at least good ones) start at $99. I can't imagine squeezing 4 wires down the one wall and paying four subs just for one tv.

@mracer
Oh wow. Look at me. I've been told.
Anyway, while you're mouthing off, maybe look up information on receivers and how they work. They cannot support that many signals at once. In fact, they can only handle one. The box would just be double-stacking boards and antenna, and would basically be no different than two receivers... and Indolikaa has already said it GIVE SOME REAL SOURCES on such information.

Sorry dude, I don't believe it.

@myself
I need to recheck this, but I believe that each signal decode needs one smartcard ... so a system accessing two different LNB or signals (even in the same little box) would need two smartcards...

[mracer]

Lordsmurf, The current DirecTivo boxes have 2 tuners. They can record 2 different channels at once. They have one smartcard. I have been using this setup everyday since 2001. What part of this do you not believe? Would you like to come to my house for a visit to see for yourself this "amazing"/"impossible"/"new fangled" technology.


I have 2 DirecTivos, so I can record 4 things at once if I wish. Each unit has 1 smartcard. I have one DirectTV subscription and one additional reciever fee ($4.95) for the other DirecTivo.

[gcutler]

@gcutler
Well, sure you can run switches, I've seen up to 56 boxes off one dish ... but we're talking the average joe here. Most of them have no idea what an LNB is, and even 4-mount switches (at least good ones) start at $99. I can't imagine squeezing 4 wires down the one wall and paying four subs just for one tv.

100% FACT: Both Dish and DirectTV do not charge PER TUNER, but PER RECIEVER, so the you would not pay 4 subs for one TV. Only if you had 4 pyhsical recievers or DTiVo boxes would you pay 3 additional reciever fees. 4 DTiVos on account = 3 additional reciever fees but use of 8 tuners.

And most professional installers are now well versed on these type of multiswitch installs, has nothing to do with Average Joes. If up to 4 cables needed (4 recievers or 2 DTiVos) then they typically get one install, if they need 5-8 outputs, the installer gives them a slightly more expensive install with the 8 port multiswitch. Most of the people I've known lately who got DTV (and these are very much average joes) have at least 3-4 cables going thru their walls. Either 3 recievers or 2 regular recievers and a DTiVo. If you look at Dish and DirectTV vendors they often have 3+ reciever specials, so the more than 2 reciever household is becoming very common.

To be honest everything mracer has said in relation to Satellite technical information I have witnessed as 100% true, Except for the HD-DTiVo info. But I have heard from people who have impeccable rumor reputations exactly what mracer has said about the HD-DTiVo. I can't back it up with a link, but the IMHO the right people are repeating it. And if you look at Dishnetwork's soon to be released model 921 HD-PVR reciever, the specs are not that far off from the HD-DTiVo... http://www.dbstalk.com/forumdisplay.php?f=73 (While technically a independant forum, it is an OFFICIAL Dishnetwork Support avenue for the 921)

[indolikaa]

I don't work for DirecTV or Tivo or any company in the TV or video business. If I worked for DirectTV, I would be in big trouble for speaking publicly about unreleased products on an internet forum.

If anybody could prove you did work for DirecTV, well, in that case you would be correct. This is the Internet. You exist in anonymity. You can't prove you have a DirecTiVo system. We have to take your word for it. Hell, you might work for Space Systems/LORAL or SeaLaunch for all I know, and you'd still be hard-pressed to prove it here.

I am just a regular American guy that enjoys video, computers, and my DirecTivos.

And your enthusiam for your hobby did not go unnoticed. Nor is your enthusiam unappreciated.

I am not your "comrade" but thanks anyway for that additional insult.

You're welcome, zampolit!

When you find incorrect information or something that turns out to be incorrect information in my posts, please feel free to correct me publicly, right here on this forum.

Where else are you suggesting we may have discussed this matter? My Outbox is empty...

Asking questions, getting answers, and getting corrected by those who know more about a subject is the way we humans learn.

No disagreement there.

There is nothing bad about being corrected.

You are not too proud to admit that fact.

My respect for you has increased. That is not an insult, either. Judge it for what it's worth, but there's A LOT of people in the world who will NEVER admit to having made a mistake.

I found a FAQ post on a forum, no official press releases.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?postid=1563320#post1563320

Fair enough.

I don't trust most things that are discussed in any forum unless I have build a rapport with the poster. Otherwise, without direct links to facts and information, how am I to judge the validity?

[PolarBearWY]

The "best" PVR on the market is any one of the DirecTV PVR's (formerly known as DirecTivo's).

Is it still a waste of time for people that don't use DirecTV?

[mracer]

If you don't use DirecTV and don't want to switch, the next best thing out there is the stand alone Tivo's. They can record from cable TV, composite, or s-video analog inputs. Pioneer even makes a Tivo with a DVD burner built-in, which is a darn nice feature.

The problem with the stand alone Tivo's is picture quality and disk space. If you record at the lower quality settings to get more space the video looks like crap. If you record at high quality it eats up the disk space at an alarming rate and still isn't that great. Either way you must rely on a low cost realtime MPEG encoder that's built into the stand alone Tivo.

When you use a DirecTivo or DirecTV PVR (same thing) there is no quality setting. You get exactly the same quality DirecTV was sending down from the satellite, no encoding or re-encoding of the MPEG2 bitstream.

Since DirecTV can afford to use very expensive realtime MPEG encoders at their headend, you end up with higher picture quality and more recording time than stand alone Tivo's can manage.

The biggest problem with DirecTV is that they are trying to fit too many channels into their limited bandwidth, and so the picture quality does not live up to the potential that it could be. In other words, DirecTV is overcompressed. Despite this overcompression, the end result with a DirecTivo is still better than any stand alone PVR.

[PolarBearWY]

Of course, I seem to have one of the faster rigs in these forums. Most systems I see that people have are in the 1.2 GHz range, and there are a lot of AMD systems out there that are slower than that. So maybe that's why I'm having no problems ignoring all the system tips. Got me!

Most people out there as you say do not have rigs as fast as yours. So by telling people they can possibly ignore the system tips is leading them in the wrong direction (unless they have similar powerful systems to you). It is fine to define your system and say you can do this or that, but the way you worded your statements...

Most people out there can't differentiate between most systems, so they see two statements.

You're right. Most people can't.
You're right. They see two statements.

They see yours --- "need to"
They see mine --- might need to, might not

Which one is more accurate? That was my point. I just wanted to keep things as true as possible. Which one leads them "in the wrong direction?" The post you made, where it is cut and dry and everyone "needs to" or the one I made where I said "possibly?" If someone takes your advice, then they go out and buy a hard drive and reconfigure their system without thinking twice. If they take my advice, they try first, and if they can't write to the disks fast enough, THEN they buy the hard drive if that might fix the problem. I don't know about you, but I'd rather not spend $100s on a new HD if I don't have to.

That was exactly my point in every one of my posts. I haven't gone back to reread what I posted, but my intent in EVERY FREAKIN' POST was to illustrate that it isn't BLACK AND WHITE, and that a person's system needs to be considered. And of course, even identical systems can behave differently.

In every single guide...
In every single thread...
In every single post...

I RARELY see anyone ever say that it is dependent on a person's system. Sure, people mention recommended minimums, but that's the extent of it. No one (except me) ever posts the simple rule of thumb "If it works, don't fix it."

Go ahead. Read the guides. Read the "how to tweak your system for capture thread." Read LordSmurf's guides on the website. You will read things like "RAID is better," "use a dedicated drive," "put the dedicated drive on its own IDE channel," etc, etc, etc. People who don't know much about it or are just getting into it may read these posts and think that's what's necessary. It isn't. Each computer is different. Just because one person may need a dedicated drive to capture doesn't mean every will. Just because one person needs to consider a tuner doesn't mean everyone will. The general population is stupid and will go with whatever they read first. I just wanted to step in and say "hey, it's not a "necessity" unless it's a necessity. I wasn't telling anyone they were wrong. I was just trying to keep the thread as honest as it should be.

[gcutler]

They see yours --- "need to"
They see mine --- might need to, might not

Where did I ever say "need to"??? Those words only appear in your posts. Your turning my posts into Cut and Dry and that is not how I wrote them either. I wrote them as things they should consider.

But now We're into symantecs, lets just end it...

[PolarBearWY]

Here's your post, quoted in entirety. I took the pleasure of putting the words I'm talking about in bold lettering.

And symantecs are what this is about. There is a HUGE different between "need to" and "possibly need to" for a newbie or someone that is getting ready to buy a capture card.

First question is, will this be your primary PC as well as your PVR. Bacause if you have to share the machine with others, it will be a problem. Little Timmy might not be able to play his games or write his report while the PVR is doing it's work. A stand alone PVR may be more cost effective than having a PC do the function.

If you don't have to share, make sure you find a PVRcard that will connect with your cable system. Some of these units do not have the ability to change cable box or satellite box channels. And with more and more digital cable systems requiring cable boxes, that can be an issue.

If you buy the right hardware and SW you should be able to record to DVD. But there are some standalone combo PVR/Recorder boxes out there that will do everything out of the box.

Will be? It may not be a problem. Everyone's needs differ. Several of us have already shown that a system can support Word, internet, some light games, and even a DVD burn while we are capturing FULL D1. That's what I originally brought up. You used an example of Little Timmy, then used an example of Medal of Honor. I hope "Little" Timmy isn't playing MoH anyway, or the parents will have bigger problems than dropped frames.. lol.

A generic statement like "get a dedicated computer for your PVR" can be dangerous. Are you trying to say everyone needs a dedicated computer? Not everyone plays 3D games. There are an enormous number of people that use their computers strictly to check email. Do you really want to tell those people they need a 2nd computer just for video capture? Sounds like a waste to me. Sounds like a bad generalization.

Make sure you find? If someone is using digital cable or a satellite receiver, there isn't a PVR card out there that will change the channels for you. We wouldn't want newbies to look for a nonexistant product, right?

Those were the only points I made in my responding email. Those were the points that you argued about in your response.

---------------------

Now here is my post that you didn't like.

Many of the things gcutler mentioned don't have to be an issue of concern. Most, if not all, digital cable or satellite receivers have tuning timer capability, so you don't need a capture card that will tune to the channel for you. Simply set the satellite or cable box to go to a channel at a specific time and it will. Set your PC PVR timer to start recording at about the same time, and it will.

Also, it really depends on your computer resources as to whether or not you need to worry about the PC being a primary or family unit. I built a system last summer and can capture full DVD-compliant audio/video from my Dish Network receiver, burn a DVD at 4x, have several Internet Explorer windows open, and even play a game of Freecell. If you have a fast enough CPU and enough RAM, you can certainly multitask your capture as well. (I haven't dropped a single frame yet)

I won't tell you to buy the card I had, but I will tell you that I'm very pleased with it. The picture and audio are as good as the source, after I have written to DVD... or at least as good as I can tell. I have yet to drop a frame, I can multitask during capture, and I don't have to go to the extremes of having a dedicated hard drive, disconnecting the network, setting up RAID, or any of that other nonsense. Frankly, this card performs flawlessly no matter how I use it.

Could you get away with buying a $150 WinTV card? Probably. Possibly not. I don't know. But there is a difference of $200 between that card and the card I just bought for some reason. In almost everything in life, you get what you pay for. Did I get an extra $200 worth of stuff? I don't know. But I do know that I don't see many people in the forum with the 9800 Pro, and I see even fewer people that can multitask their capture without losing a single frame. So, you tell me?!

(Some of my success could be due to my fast computer with lots of memory.)

I really tried to remain as neutral as possible and go a tad further into what you brought up, trying to help readers decide whether they "had to" get a PVR capture card that tunes the cable box. I would have been pretty ticked if I took your words, bought a tuning PVR card, only to find out that it didn't work with digital cable. But, you mentioned nothing of that. You just said "make sure you get one that works with your cable."

[gcutler]

Make sure you find? If someone is using digital cable or a satellite receiver, there isn't a PVR card out there that will change the channels for you. We wouldn't want newbies to look for a nonexistant product, right?"

Granted these are SW or HW add-ons, but they do exist!!! 15 minutes of proper research would have brought them to these sites...

http://store.freytechnologies.com/Merchant2/merchant.mv?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=SOS&Pro...tegory_Code=HD

http://www.usbuirt.com/

http://www.freytechnologies.com/developers.html

http://www.pcmx.net/dtvcon/

http://www.girder.nl/

Hopefully the person would see that there is not alot of options and a DirectTiVo or SA TiVo (for DTV or Cable Box respectively) would be better for them.

We can continue to nitpick each others posts forever...Lets End This...I don't think we are helping newbies with this continuation...And there is still the other argument going on as well involving other people.

[PolarBearWY]

Yup. I have no issues with you. I just wanted to make it clear that pretty much the only thing "necessary" in the capture world is a capture card, and I wasn't trying to change your opinion --- just clear things up for others. I was almost one of the ones that I'm trying to protect. While waiting the 4 days between order and delivery of my capture card, I almost bought a 250 GB WD HD because of the overwhelming # of posts from people saying it was necessary to have a dedicated drive. I'm glad I didn't. I was going to sell a ton of my DVDs to get the money for it, and that would have been a bummer -- especially since I don't need one. Heck, I want one anyway

Over and out. hehehe.

gcutler, I'm getting ready to post a new topic in the capture forum. Would you spend a moment giving your opinion on it? If I remember right, you like AVI capture, so I'd like some input from that side of the line as well. Thanks!!