VCR Question Reguarding Firewire vs. S-Video

[wheezer210]

I have been looking into a decent S-VHS to to VHS transfers to DVD by capturing via S-Video to my Radeon 9700 AIW.

I was in Best Buy a few days ago and the sales person told me that they did not carry any S-VHS but he did have one machine left that was similar to this one: http://www.1-electronics-store.com/replaytv-and-tivo-systems/JVC-HM-DH30000L-D-VHS-B00005RI9I.html
it has a Firewire out on it and he told me that this would be better for capture than S-Video. true or false?

[Bob W]

I don't know for sure however I bet that ilink thing is just for a digital tape recording not old standard VHS tapes. Anyway I bought a JVC VCR with a built in time bas corrector ans s-video out which works well for recording directly to my DVD recorder and should also work for capturing.

BTW here is the VCR I bought only I paid $150 for it now I see they are asking $250.
http://www.ecost.com/ecost/shop/detail.asp?dpno=971986

[racerxnet]

The answer is no, firewire will not increase the amount of information stored on the magnetic tape of the VCR. Your post regarding the salesman at Best Buy. FIRE THE GUY, HE DON"T KNOW SHIT!! SVHS delivers 400 lines of resolution whereas VHS delvers about 230 lines. If you like I'll give you an indepth technical explanation of how SVHS accomplises this feat. How can you capture better quality to the VCR if the VHS stanadard is not capable of the added information?

[indolikaa]

www.crutchfield.com has a bunch of S-VHS VCRs for sale. They start at $99.00.

The Best Buy salesperson needs to be publically flogged for his ineptitude.

The VCR you linked to is a Digital VHS VCR and sheer overkill for what you are trying to accomplish. It should work beautifully, though.

I do an average of three recordings from VCR and/or satellite through an ATI AIW 9000 Pro on a daily basis. No complaints. Check out lordsmurf.com for helpful information on how to get the most from your recordings.

[trevlac]

If you like I'll give you an indepth technical explanation of how SVHS accomplises this feat. How can you capture better quality to the VCR if the VHS stanadard is not capable of the added information?

Are commercial tapes SVHS or VHS? Maybe wheezer was thinkin about doing some of those? How can you tell from the box?

I for one would like to hear some cohearent information on the topic. I rarely capture tape, so I hardly know squat about them. I once read that even on VHS the y/c are stored seperately. True? Wouldn't that give you better resolution if the capture card limited the bandwidth when it did the color seperation?

When is it worth it to use SVHS s-video, assuming the devices are the same quality level machines?

Thanks

[racerxnet]

Sorry I double posted

[racerxnet]

Hi Trevor,

Here is a link to the technical specs regarding VCR's and info storage.

http://www.ee.washington.edu/conselec/CE/kuhn/vcr/vcr.htm
http://videoexpert.home.att.net/artic2/211vcrw.htm
http://www.ntsc-tv.com/ An excellent source of info
http://www.cs.tut.fi/~leopold/Ld/FilmToVideo/
http://www.repairfaq.org/REPAIR/F_vcrfaqd.html#VCRFAQD_001



Note the end statement "The higher resolution reproduction features of the formats such as SVHS and superbeta formats are obtained by retaining larger spectral regions of the sidebands." I'll look for others, or write an essay when time permits. Hope this helps

MAK

[racerxnet]

VHS specifications

Tape width: 1/2 inch

Tape length: 240 meters, T120 - 120 minutes at SP speed, most common.
Other lengths up to T160 and perhaps more.

Tape speed: SP 1-5/16 ips 1.3125 ips 33.3375 mm/sec
LP 21/32 ips .6563 ips 16.6688 mm/sec
EP 7/16 ips .4375 ips 11.1125 mm/sec

Track pitch: .058 mm (SP)
.039 mm (LP)
.019 mm (EP)

Min wavelength: 1 micrometer

Writing speed: 4.83 m/sec.

Recording density: (SP) 34 K transitions/sq. mm

Recording time: SP 120 minutes 2 hours
(T120 cassette) LP 240 minutes 4 hours
EP 360 minutes 6 hours

Drum diameter: 2.45 inches (VHS VCRs).
1.63 inches (VHS Camcorders).

Drum speed: 30 RPS 1800 RPM

Rotation: Counter-clockwise viewed from above.

Tape movement: Left-right viewed from front.

Heads (typ): 2 for normal recording/playback.
1 to 3 optional for SP freeze frame/slow motion, etc.
2 optional for HiFi audio.
1 or 2 optional for flying erase.

End sensing: Clear leader and trailer.

Brake torque: Supply forward = 450 - 650 g-cm
Supply reverse = 70 - 130 g-cm
Takeup reverse = 450 - 650 g-cm
Takeup forward = 70 - 130 g-cm

Back tension: 20 - 25 g.

Takeup torque: Play - 80 - 160 g-cm
FF - greater than 350 g-cm
Rew - greater than 400 g-cm

Lum. Carrier: 3.4 Mhz

Color sbcrrier: 629 KHz

Azimith angles: +/- 6 degrees

Frame length: 7.7 inches 196 mm

Field length: 3.85 inches 98 mm

Line length: .0147 inches .3723 mm

Skew: SP - 1.5 H (sync tips align)
LP - .75 H
EP - .5 H (sync tips align)

Color Vector A head is + 90 degree/H
rotation: B head is - 90 degree/H

Luminance Specifications for various VCR technologies:

Type Video Resolution FM Deviation Freq. Range
--------------------------------------------------------------
VHS (240 lines) 1.0 Mhz 3.4-4.4 Mhz
SVHS (*) (400 lines) 1.6 Mhz 5.4-7.0 Mhz
BETA1 (250 lines) 1.3 Mhz 3.5-4.8 Mhz
BETA2/3 (240 lines) 1.2 Mhz 3.6-4.8 Mhz
SuperBETA (285 lines) 1.2 Mhz 4,4-5.6 Mhz
ED BETA (500 lines) 2.5 Mhz 6.8-9.3 Mhz

(*) The tape for SVHS must have a higher coercivity since the frequency is
higher (information more dense) and the demagnetizing forces are greater.

Linear audio .0384 inches 1 mm (mono, along top of tape)
track width: .0138 inches .35 mm (L or R stereo, R at top of tape,
.3 mm guard band between L and R)
Audio bias: 67 KHz

Control track: .0288 inches .75 mm (along bottom of tape)

Guard bands: .0059 inches .15 mm (linear audio track to video)
.0059 inches .15 mm (video to control track)

[trevlac]

@racerxnet

Thanks for the links. So Y and C ARE seperate in a VHS recording. The machine just puts them back together so your TV can break them a part again. What are they thinking? Maybe that is what quasi svhs is. VHS bandwidth thru an svideo out.

Anyway... What are the tapes I rent from my local Block Buster? Not that I would ever think of copying them...Just wondering.

[racerxnet]

I believe the majority (99.9%) are regular VHS tapes. I think a good starting point to look regarding signal seperation of Y/C is google. Search for "comb filter". It should help clarify the seperation of the input source and its uses.

[trevlac]

I believe the majority (99.9%) are regular VHS tapes. I think a good starting point to look regarding signal seperation of Y/C is google. Search for "comb filter". It should help clarify the seperation of the input source and its uses.

That's amazing. Shows how important good original source is.

On the y/c thing, I found this to be a good link if anyone out there cares:
http://www.cybertheater.com/Tech_Reports/Comb_Filter_Tut/guide_comb_filters.html

[racerxnet]

Hi Trevor,

A quote from your source "Since VCR's record video in separate Y and C frequency bands, the VCR's Y/C output should always be used to connect to a monitor, or another VCR for dubbing. This avoids summing the Y/C signals in the output stage of the VCR to create a composite signal, and splitting them again with a Y/C separation filter in the other product." I would apply this to any other source as well. This applies to Will's problem regarding over saturation of the magenta. I THINK he is recombining the signal back into composite and then trying to seperate the signal once again. Definitely a NO NO.

[wheezer210]

thanks for the help. you guys are a great source of information. What I plan on doing is to capure home movies and such. I was kinda suspicious of the guy when he told me that, I have been doing extensive reading at lordsurf's site what a wealth of info there....wow. Anyway thanks again, and I hope you all have a good holiday!!!!