MESECAM recording

[User0]

Hello everyone,

This is my first post to this site and I hope you guys can help me. I have a bunch of VHS tapes (about 100 hours) which were recorded back when SECAM and MESECAM were still in effect in my country - upto about 1992. These tapes as I discovered later need a vcr that supports the MESECAM recording standard (MESECAM is not a broadcast standard - just a recording one) in order to play correctly (in colour that is). Don't ask me though what standard was the vcr that I used back then! It turns out that MESECAM tapes play correctly on any PAL tv BUT NOT through a PAL vcr. Also if I try to copy them from my MESECAM vcr to a PAL-only vcr the copy turns out black&white. With this in mind what do I have to do so that I can copy them to DVDs and in colour? If I judge from posts describing similar situations with PAL/NTSC I may need some kind of converter but since MESECAM is very close to PAL (you don't need a MESECAM tv for playback) maybe a PAL DVD recorder will somehow do the job right? These tapes are VHS and as you understand I have to act fast! Even if they don't deteriorate maybe it will be impossible to find a MESECAM vcr in a few years from now when my current machine will be dead...

Appreciate your help!

[Anonymous65]

MESECAM is basically the same as SECAM, so you need a VCR that will play SECAM (MESECAM) video tapes. The only thing SECAM has in common with PAL is the 625 line 50 field rate video. However, the color is totally different than PAL. So, look for a SECAM VCR or a multi-system VCR that will play SECAM. Any PAL VCR will only give you a black/white image.

[User0]

I didn't make clear that I already have a MESECAM vcr. The thing is what will happen if I hook it up to a PAL DVD recorder though... Will the dvd's come out black&white? I tried it with a PAL vcr and the copies were b&w.

[Dennis1968]

Your DVD as is will be Black & White. you need to convert your VCR output signal to PAL-B/G.

What is the standard for Greece now?
http://www.molesoft.co.uk/Klones/Conversion.html
http://www.3dresearch.com/video/Countries2.html
http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Contrib/WorldTV/broadcast.html
My research tells me that Greece adopted PAL-B/G.

The early days of signal conversion is MESECAM VHS playback on a MESECAM VCR connected to a scan convertor (PAL/ SECAM/ NTSC).

I own the Samsung SV-5000W Worldwide VCR. After reading the instruction manual, It can playback your MESECAM VHS and convert/ playback to SECAM, PAL, or NTSC. There is a side note about SECAM-L from France that is confusing. In theory, you can either do MESECAM to SECAM, PAL, or NTSC or the unit does MESECAM to SECAM only. I only have experience with PAL to NTSC conversion with this VCR.

[donpedro]

All DVD Recorders that I was reading their manual so far (mainly US versions) are talking only about PAL and SECAM (other than NTSC), if it is any help.

[User0]

Thanks Dennis!

I was looking at your Samsung just now when I got notification of your post. Seems like I have to get a converter vcr. Yes, Greece switched to PAL (B/G) around 1992 (unfortunately AFTER the Barcelona Olympics...). I did not understand the part about the scan converter though...

[User0]

Thanks Donpedro,

I know, info on the MESECAM system is almost impossible to find on the net. Apparently Greece was the only european country that used this system along with countries like Lebanon, Egypt, Iran and Iraq! Only God knows why....

[Dennis1968]

A scan convertor is just a technical term for a circuit that is built into a VCR or is an external box that changes from one TV standard to another.

Example PAL to NTSC, NTSC to SECAM, PAL to SECAM, SECAM to PAL, SECAM to NTSC and vice versa. Any convertor VCR that say it can change the input from the output has the Scan convertor ciruit. Beware, there is a different between VCRs some will play and convert whike others will only playback. Example a Multi-System VCR (throughput) can play PAL but you have to have a PAL TV, the same VCR can play SECAM but you need a SECAM capable TV, NTSC to NTSC TV, and so farth. You do not need to a VCR like that unless you want one for your project. From what i have read on your post you want a minimum of a Convertor VCR.

When i was in the army stationed in Nurnberg, Gemany 1990 to 1992, I purchased a Panasonic NTSC VCR that played NTSC VHS to a NTSC TV and PAL VHS to a NTSC TV. It had a early scan convertoer built in but it's limitation was that you needed a NTSC TV with Horizontal control. The PAL was in NTSC colour but the screen would roll horizonatlly.

Have seen the external box version (example MESECAM/ SECAM going in and PAL-B/G going out) but do not have any concrete information on the output results. They might stabalize everything but I do not know.

It appears you need a minimum of your old VCR (MESECAM/ SECAM) connected to an external convertor with an output of PAL-B/G that is connecteed to your PAL DVD recorder.

The Samsung SV-5000W stabalizes everything including horizantal control.

If your collection is small and money is tight, i would suggest seeing if you can use your old VCR that still operates and renting that external box if possible. If your older VCR is on it's last leg, then i can see purchasing a $400 US Convertor VCR.

[User0]

I guess the best solution is to get a machine like the Samsung SV-5000. You see I have at least 100 hours of recordings.... then I'll use that to transfer the tapes as PAL signal to a PAL DVD recorder.

Thanks a bunch!

[Dennis1968]

The decision is yours, We are here to help you understand your options. All the users information were technically related. When we converse using a single language universally, our grammar might not be structurally proper enough to translate into what our specific technical question is pertaining to. I personally was little confused with the initial question, but through patience, understanding and questioning (paraphrasing), we finally come to a solution for users residing in other countries.

I have learn valuable info from users from the European countries and Australia.

[Zuhel]

I used to be in the same situation: MESECAM tapes to be transferred to DVDs.

1. Samsung SV-5000 does not provide satisfactory results, alas. You will see quite noticeable picture quality degradation.

2. You will need either digital standard converter (not analog one!), for example this one: http://www.220giftcenter.com/cmd850.htm
or this one:
http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/product/technical.asp?dept%5Fid=106&sku=185

with built in TBC function for signal synchronization, and 12Mb memory.

OR

to use Pioneer DVR5100HS DVD recorder:
http://www.futurehomeuk.com/html/buy_dvd_hdd_recorders_2.html

which has MESECAM compatibility:
Tuner DVR-5100H-S
System PAL-B/G, I, D/K
SECAM-L/L', B/G, D/K

In this case all your DVDs will be recorded in MESECAM.

3. I would prefere to use some standard converter which might be useful in the future. Do not buy cheap one!

Good luck!

[VideoJockey2002]

2. You will need either digital standard converter (not analog one!), for example this one: http://www.220giftcenter.com/cmd850.htm
or this one:
http://www.lektropacks.co.uk/product/technical.asp?dept%5Fid=106&sku=185

with built in TBC function for signal synchronization, and 12Mb memory.

Just a bit of added information. Those units are actually manufactured by Cypress Technology of China.

In the United States, those same items are sold under the AVToolBox brand name. In Europe, they get the Lektropacks brand name. According to Cypress, you can buy their product and silk screen any brand name onto it that you wish.

See: www.cypress.com.tw/product.php?PId=26209&CId=002&CName=Video%20System%20Converters&SR=0

Maybe this information would help when shopping for a low price if you decide to try one. This information might also give you more detailed specifications on the items.

I'm also wondering, if you are able to view with color on a PAL TV, shouldn't you be able to record from the TV output? Do you, perhaps, have a PAL TV that has video output?

Your problem intrigues me. What's on your PAL TV? A SCART input? Does it have a SCART output?

I just ordered the Samsung SV-5000W. Should be here on 5 May 2004. I have looked at the operation manual.



I guess they are saying it can output MESECAM only from tape.

I wonder what Zuhel refers to as picture degradation? I wonder if this type of "degradation" could be overcome in software if the Samsung SV-5000W was fed to a PAL capture card or PAL capture device for transcoding to MPEG2?

Most of all, I'm wondering what happens if you feed MESECAM to your TV using that PAL output VCR and record PAL from your TV using another PAL VCR.

--vj2k2

[spiderman2k1]

Look at JVC PAL VCR's and Samsung. Samsung some time's has blue line's in the video. There's some kind of bug in there World Wide VCR's.

[VideoJockey2002]

Just got the Samsung SV-5000W VCR a few hours ago.

At this point in time I'll have to say: It sucks !

EDITED Original post.


Now, today, is two days later. I'm editing my original post. Part of the problems was me, I guess. Other VCR's I have will automatically detect S-VHS tapes and adjust accordingly. I expected this same auto-detect mode for S-VHS when S-VHS was enabled in the SV-5000W menu.

This Samsung has a menu option to turn on the SQPB (SuperVHS Quasi Play Back.) Once this function is turned on in the menu, it seems that it is not in "automatic detection" mode. It is in S-VHS mode continuously.

Therefore, the white flecks and the herringbone patterns (patterns seen mostly on red objects) was a result. Once I turned off the SQPB function, all returned to normal.

NTSC tapes played to a NTSC TV look good.

PAL tapes played to a NTSC TV? Not so good so far. At this point in time, however, I have only one PAL tape. The problems I'm having might be related to that one tape.

I've ordered a few other PAL tapes with which to test the SV-5000.

Viewing this one PAL tape, however, renders a slight flickering in the image on a NTSC TV.

Maybe the flicker is due to the frame rate disparity (25 vs 29.97) of PAL and NTSC as the built-in scan converter renders the image.

Or, maybe, the flicker is simply the result of a bad source tape.

I'll let you all know when the other tapes arrive.

Even with the flicker, I'll probably keep the SV-5000W because I have no choice. I purchased it from a dealer who doesn't take returns. All in all, it's the lowest priced option I could find for playing PAL to a NTSC TV.

--vj2k2

[Dennis1968]

I have owned and used the Samsung SV-5000W VCR with many PAL tapes from the UK. I hook my Samsung directly into my computer through my Dazzle DVC II PCI capture card. I have not noticed any thing off with the PAL 25 fps @ 50 Hrtz video to NTSC 29.97 fps @ 60 Hrtz.

You might want to get the SCART to S-Video (colour) adapter. It might improve your ouput if you want to use S-Video input on your capture device.

Thoerectically, it is possible to ripp the MESCAM reorded VHS to DVD transfer and convert the video file into NTSC.

[sadbugger]

This is probably a bit late for user0 but I was in a similar situation when I wanted a recorder to transfer secam L tapes to dvd.

In the end I got the Philips DVDR75 which records secam in colour as long as a secam vcr is playing the tape.

I am not sure if the resulting dvds are pal or secam as I have only played them on a pal/secam tv. Results are very good, with no discernable loss of quality.