Stand Alone DVD Recorder vs. Firewire Capture to Computer

[tommyoz]

I am interested in knowing if anyone has tried both methods of DVD Recording. Is there any difference in quality between stand alone recording and firewire capturing through S-Video of VHS tapes?

Like many others, I have a lot of VHS videos that I want to record to DVD.
I have tried the firewire method and am very pleased. It just takes a lot of time and I'm wondering if I decide to go with stand alone recording would I be losing quality in exchange for gaining time.

Thanks,

[Shannafey]

Just from what little experience I have doing it at home, it is, as you said, a long process. I have a Panasonic T3040 at work, and in the 2 hour mode, the copies are amazing. The recorder has a built in TBC that cleans up the video to a degree, and of course, the convenience of taking 2 hours for 2 hours of video instead of 2 hours to dump, 4-6 hours to render, and then authoring and burning. If you have a lot of material and don't need to edit any of it, and don't care about special menus, the set top recorder is the way to go!!

[tommyoz]

Shannafey,

Thanks for the reply. I thought that would be the case. I was a little afraid to ask cause now I have to spend more money.

[proxyx99]

Shannafey,

Thanks for the reply. I thought that would be the case. I was a little afraid to ask cause now I have to spend more money.

Hey, keep your questions to yourself then, coz asking them here may cost you. Or wait with the next one until your payday...

[Bob W]

Shannafey,

Thanks for the reply. I thought that would be the case. I was a little afraid to ask cause now I have to spend more money.

I bet you wind up spending as or more for a capture card that is worth having and software than the cost of a DVD recorder. Besides CompUSA has the LiteON DVD recorder for $250.

[proxyx99]

Agree, can't beat that deal.... until a new one comes out. Good Luck.

[apicella]

greetings to all, my first time here, so forgive me for any nonsense I could write...
my question seems to be connected to this topic, as I received as a present a new laptop (Pentium 4, 512 MB RAM, 2.5 GHz) together with a Dazzle DVC80 capture card....I was day-dreaming about converting my dozens of old VCRs to DVD-R or VCD in a fly...but, of course it took me about four weeks to work around Dazzle software bugs just to have a less-then-decent VCD, rather worse to watch on TV from a desktop DVD player than the VCR source movie...
I am assuming it is resolution problem (for example details totally lost when a red face of an actor is in front of some red background), as I tried to capture with VirtualDub and couldn't improve the quality...

I have been looking into this forum for a month before posting here, because I now want to get a better capture device and stay around 200 $. I was thinking about a FireWire card, but I have been told that I can get good results at 720x576 only going through a camcorder for the analogic/digital conversion...Same story for a USB 2.0 device (they told me it cannot manage the data flow at high resolution)...
I assume so that my cheapest option is the DVD recorder? that's too bad, I was having fun playing around with digital video, but I need to show some better result to my wife for all the time I "waste in front of that stupid computer" (her citation)...

[pbanders]

SA DVD recorders are the best for ease of use and excellent recording quality. I recommend them to "non-techie" people who simply want to capture live source and transfer existing analog source to digitial media.

PC/Capture setups are best for those who want to have more control over the size, quality, and production of digital media. I recommend this solution for people who are more technical and who want to create video productions. This setup enables the creation of VCD, SVCD in addition to DVD.

My recommendation for equipment for the PC/Capture route is to use a DV encoder (ADVC-100, ADS Pyro AV Link, DAC-100 - about $150 to $250) with a XP based 2+GHz P4 PC with 512 MB RAM, 200 GB HD. For basic productions, you can't beat Ulead MovieFactory 2, and for more complex productions, Ulead VideoStudio 7.

[Shannafey]

I just built a system around an AMD 2500+ processor, 1 gig of Ram, an 80GB USB 2.0 drive for video, and using my old Pinnacle Studio DV and DC10+ cards, along with a Sony DVD+ and - R drive. I love the control I have, but it takes the time to dump it in (that is, if the video is stable), 3 hours per hour to render with TMPGenc, time to author the menus, and burning time. After building the system, I love the control, but some projects, I just want a dvd copy of, and when the video is old and unstable, the system tends to drop frames. I just got a Samsung DVD-R4000 for $250 this weekend, and now I am in DVD heaven. I have both ways to capture, depending on what I want to do, or what I need to do! If you want just one system, the set top recorders are more cost effective, and easier to use!

[gcutler]

After building the system, I love the control, but some projects, I just want a dvd copy of, and when the video is old and unstable, the system tends to drop frames. I just got a Samsung DVD-R4000 for $250 this weekend, and now I am in DVD heaven. I have both ways to capture, depending on what I want to do, or what I need to do! If you want just one system, the set top recorders are more cost effective, and easier to use!

What will happen is the average user will probably go the DVD Recorder way, and the "Techie" will go the PC way.

[tommyoz]

some projects, I just want a dvd copy of

This is correct. I already have a system for capturing, editing, authoring and burning DVD's on the computer and like I said I am very pleased with it.

if I decide to go with stand alone recording would I be losing quality in exchange for gaining time.

That was my question.

I have both ways to capture, depending on what I want to do, or what I need to do

Like I said, more money out of my pocket, I will be casually looking for a SA DVD Recorder soon.

Hey, keep your questions to yourself then, coz asking them here may cost you. Or wait with the next one until your payday

It was my payday.

I bet you wind up spending as or more for a capture card that is worth having and software than the cost of a DVD recorder. Besides CompUSA has the LiteON DVD recorder for $250.

LiteON? I don't like what I'm reading on Liteon products.[/quote]

[gpwake]

tommyoz wrote:
if I decide to go with stand alone recording would I be losing quality in exchange for gaining time.

You will gain quality most likely! I have captured many ways over the past year and a half and have found that my stand alone DVD Recorder captures are HEAVEN sent. It is easy to use, and the video quality is indistinguishable from the source. I use my DVD Recorder to record my footage to a DVD+RW then i pop the disc into my PC and use DVD Decrypter to rip just the VOB files to my Hard Drive with NO file splitting.

This gives me one big VOB file instead of like 5 or 6 which is way easier to work with. You can use Nero to import the VOB files directly from your DVD, but i find it easier to rip the disc to the HD.

Then i use NERO 6 (as it will work with VOB files directly) to add my chapter points and menus. Works like a dream! There are other programs out there that will also work with VOB files directly, but i use Nero 6 because it comes bundled with many other GREAT tools such as Recode.

[tommyoz]

gpwake,
That's exactly how I was doing Audio (vinyl records) when cd recorders came out onto cd-rw then rip to HD and clean. It's also what I intend to do with the VHS tapes. Staight to dvd-rw or dvd+rw and if I need to, then rip to hard drive and author.
Thanks for the reponse.

[handyguy]

First of all VHS is very low resolution so don't expect much from it any way you capture it. Also most all dvd recorders have S-Video inputs.

[tommyoz]

First of all VHS is very low resolution so don't expect much from it any way you capture it. Also most all dvd recorders have S-Video inputs.

Yes, I'm aware of the fact that with VHS video you get what you put in. I'm not looking to better the quality, I just don't want to lose. So I can get rid of my VHS tapes. For me S-Video is the way i'm doing it. I have a VCR with S-Video out as well.

[pbanders]

I just built a system around an AMD 2500+ processor, 1 gig of Ram, an 80GB USB 2.0 drive for video, and using my old Pinnacle Studio DV and DC10+ cards, along with a Sony DVD+ and - R drive. I love the control I have, but it takes the time to dump it in (that is, if the video is stable), 3 hours per hour to render with TMPGenc, time to author the menus, and burning time.

I've got my "no editing" time for DVD authoring down to 10 seconds over the length of the recording (e.g. 2 hours and 10 seconds for a 2 hour source), by using Ulead MovieFactory 2's "on-the-fly" authoring. Even creates basic menus and chapters, and if you're recording to RW, you can go back and re-edit the menus and chapters later. No dropped frames, no A/V desynchronization, excellent video quality.

My configuration is a 2.5GHz P4, 512MB memory, 200 MB disk, XP Pro. I'm using an ADS Pyro A/V Link for capture/DV conversion (~$150), and a Sony multiformat DVD burner for disc creation.

[gpwake]

I too used Ulead Movie Factory 2 for capturing and authoring DVD's before I picked up a DVD Recorder. Ulead Movie Factory Worked great, but it is still dependent on how fast your system is. Unless you drop the money for an ADVC100 or something comparable.

Even with a pretty good system you will still loose some video quality when capturing analog to MPG2. (At least I always have)

For VHS I would seriously save myself the headache and go with a stand alone recorder.

It is way faster when you are transfering large amounts of video because you can:
Record one full DVD disc, pop it in the computer, rip it to your HD, then start setting up menus while you start recording your second disc.

In short....It is easier to multitask with a stand alone DVD Recorder! You don't completely tie up your system every time you start a capture process.

[pbanders]

re: gpwake's comments...

While I've got a PC-based setup, I sure see the attractiveness of the DVD recorder, I think it's a much better solution for most people. Especially when you can get the versatile LiteOn LW-5001 for only $249. Hard to beat.

As for video quality, the ADS Pyro A/V Link I have is essentially the same as the ADVC-100, and by paying attention to the incoming signal (still on analog cable) quality and my cabling setup, I get very good video quality at source, and my recorded quality is excellent.

[gpwake]

re: gpwake's comments...

While I've got a PC-based setup, I sure see the attractiveness of the DVD recorder, I think it's a much better solution for most people. Especially when you can get the versatile LiteOn LW-5001 for only $249. Hard to beat.

As for video quality, the ADS Pyro A/V Link I have is essentially the same as the ADVC-100, and by paying attention to the incoming signal (still on analog cable) quality and my cabling setup, I get very good video quality at source, and my recorded quality is excellent.

Very true pbanders! I used a PC based setup for like 2 years and it worked great for me, but with the low prices on DVD Recorders it sure is hard to justify going any other route at this point. When i first got my DVD Recorder i was a little skeptical, in fact i almost went back to a ADVC100. After playing around with the Recorder and getting the process down, i can now never go back to the PC capture device.

[donpedro]

Best is to have both methods available.

1. DVD Recorder for fast copy without problems from any source that does not require a lot (some is OK) editing. Be aware that most ef the editing functions are available only on RW or RAM media. So you might want to have PC Writer to make copy to R media after you are done.

2. FireWire (DV-AVI) is best way to go if you like to play with your video a lot. Cutting/Titles/Moving scenes around/adding bacround music/ Cool DVD Menus with multiple levels.... But this tkaes time... a lot of time

[tommyoz]

Best is to have both methods available.

1. DVD Recorder for fast copy without problems from any source that does not require a lot (some is OK) editing. Be aware that most ef the editing functions are available only on RW or RAM media. So you might want to have PC Writer to make copy to R media after you are done.

2. FireWire (DV-AVI) is best way to go if you like to play with your video a lot. Cutting/Titles/Moving scenes around/adding bacround music/ Cool DVD Menus with multiple levels.... But this tkaes time... a lot of time

Well said, this is the exact assumption i am going under word for word.

The thing that bothers me is, a lot of people like to go cheap when it comes to equipment and media. It's like the saying goes "you get what you pay for" I wouldn't go with a lot of the name brands that are being kicked around here. It's too risky. Now I know that some people have had some good luck with let's say "LiteOn" products. I wait around a little bit and research what I'm investing in. In the past I have purchased products from LiteOn, Cyberhome, Apex and Daewoo. With the exception of Apex all have come with probelms. I'm still a little sceptical of Apex though. I would look into Panasonic, Pioneer etc.... These guys have been around a long time and wouldn't sell crap or else. This is only my opinion of course.

As far as media goes, it kills me to see people discussing their problems with ritek, princo memorex etc.... Do you ever see any problems with Taiyo Yuden, Ricoh, Mitsui etc..... Yes, it's more expensive but there's a reason for it. Figure it out.

[pbanders]

Update: a friend of mine acted on the information in this thread about the LiteOn LW-5001 from CompuUSA being $250 and bought one. He returned it the next day (yes, he's still talking to me). I'll post his comments on it tomorrow, but IIRC, he said it's not possible to add material to any RW disc recorded to by this system, nor is it straightforward to edit the content. Too bad, sounded like a great deal.

[donpedro]

Update: a friend of mine acted on the information in this thread about the LiteOn LW-5001 from CompuUSA being $250 and bought one. He returned it the next day (yes, he's still talking to me). I'll post his comments on it tomorrow, but IIRC, he said it's not possible to add material to any RW disc recorded to by this system, nor is it straightforward to edit the content. Too bad, sounded like a great deal.

I guess that I will have to wait for your post... but isn't that case of all DVD Recorders ? Maybe details will explain what do you mean.

[pbanders]

re: gpwake's comments...

While I've got a PC-based setup, I sure see the attractiveness of the DVD recorder, I think it's a much better solution for most people. Especially when you can get the versatile LiteOn LW-5001 for only $249. Hard to beat.

As for video quality, the ADS Pyro A/V Link I have is essentially the same as the ADVC-100, and by paying attention to the incoming signal (still on analog cable) quality and my cabling setup, I get very good video quality at source, and my recorded quality is excellent.

Very true pbanders! I used a PC based setup for like 2 years and it worked great for me, but with the low prices on DVD Recorders it sure is hard to justify going any other route at this point. When i first got my DVD Recorder i was a little skeptical, in fact i almost went back to a ADVC100. After playing around with the Recorder and getting the process down, i can now never go back to the PC capture device.

What you say sounds great, but I wonder if you can do what I did tonight on my PC with a standalone DVD recorder. Took a 1 hour show on my Tivo and piped it over to my PC, recording on the fly to 2000 kps 480x480 MPEG-2 (SVCD format). Edited all the commercials out, bringing it down to 44 minutes 20 seconds. Burned to SVCD (on a TDK CD-R that I paid $0.07 per disc for), playback quality is extremely near source quality (very good quality analog cable, recorded on Tivo at "high quality" resolution). Total time from when I started the recording process to when I had the disc in hand was 1 hour 20 minutes.

For these kind of jobs, the PC kicks butt. For nuts-and-bolts recording, the standalone is the best. As it was said in this thread, the best solution is simple - have both!

[donpedro]

Common pbanders, what are you talking about... Standalone DVD Recorder can not do a lot... for example I can't write this post on it...

[pbanders]

RE: LiteOn LW-5001 issues...

Here are my friend's comments:
----------------------------------------
… so I bought this Liteon recorder yesterday at CompUSA… It is a great unit but I had to return it. You can record DVD Video but you can’t edit it. I mean, there is no way to split a title and delete something or cut commercials. In addition, if you aren’t using the timer recordings, there is no way to set it to record for a certain length of time. This means you must be there at the unit when recording. For example, if you want to record a 30 minute video from your Tivo you press play and either come back in 30 minutes or fill up the entire disc with no way to delete any time after 30 minutes… bummer

Other than that, this is a very nice unit. The video imports nicely into Ulead Moviefactory since the audio is not dolby digital.
----------------------------------------

Being able to edit and add material to discs is something that I expected that a typical DVD recorder could do - if they all can't do that, then I'm much less interested in them. I like to record multi-part series to disc, and with a PC-based setup, there's no problem in recording one hour to disc, then adding the subsequent episodes to the DVD (e.g. MF2 and MyDVD support this). Also, on this particular unit, the lack of a fixed interval recording timer (instead of an absolute timer, i.e. "record from 3:30PM to 4:00PM) is a BIG drawback for me, as my most common recording task is to pull down material from my Tivo for permanent archiving. If there are DVD recorders that permit editing/appending of disc content, and interval recording, I'd like to know what brands they are so that I can check them out.

[handyguy]

"Being able to edit and add material to discs is something that I expected that a typical DVD recorder could do "

Panasonics do this, its called a PLAY LIST

[donpedro]

Well.... I never had LiteOn LW-5001 in my hands so I am not sure... but there is nothing in manual that would sugest the it can DEVIDE, HIDE or CUT OUT.

Majority of DVD Recorders can do that on rewritable medias.