ADVC-100 vs ATI Radeon - Screenshots

[proxyx99]

Wow, what a thread. Couple more days and you could print it in a book format. I've had hard time finding my post. Seems burried in the past.
Back to the subject. I was horrified to read about downstaires-upstaires issues. That is definitely not the way to capture and a horror when it comes to troubleshooting. Good to see miniDV introduced as well DVD.
Remark about DAC-100 for Fulci: no, it will not capture B&W as it uses chroma to sync audio (color burst).

Looking at other captured pictures shows pretty good color balance of ADVC-100 comparing to miniDV. As expected, it is a bit darker but not too much. Definitely acceptable. ADVC seems to loose when picture is close to monochromatic. Outside scenes are not good for troubleshooting. I would suggest recapturing your initial pics as they show extremes. This is the area that we want to be. If I may suggest: try to get the same pics from ADVC and miniDV (same as your initial post). Btw. say which miniDV cam you have.

I would say that as opposed to your first pics I do not see anything alarming here. You cannot expect a pro grade quality of single color screens from a device that costs 250 US bucks. I posted few times here and there that monochrome is one of the most difficult areas to handle for many video devices not only ADVC. This is also where MPEG2 encoding quality reveals many of its flaws (different on differnet devices). ADVC was designed to serve day-to-day amateur video buffs needs and not the true pro. So it is vital to set the expectations accordingly.

For troubleshooting you would need shortest cables, use always same set for all runs, and consistent methodology. Stick to a limited selection of most troublesome scenes. I wonder about miniDV ver. of your first post (go back to the beggining). As indicated by other participants ATI has a tendency to produce too light pictures that loose detail in bright areas. No wonder then, that it handles bleeds better as saturation level is not the same by default. Sticking to ADVC-miniDV relation seems to be most interesting here. Both are "brothers" and that could tell us more then comparing to ATI. This is no mystery that there is some fluctuation in capture characteristics of different devices, so 100% uniformity cannot be realisticaly expected.

Will, if I may, please keep it simple and consistent. Too many variables here (like floor levels) are not going to help. Let's see mini DV ver. By looking at pictures so far I know what the outcome will be, but would like to see it anyway, if not too much trouble.

I've read about Canopus DV codec and devices. Let's keep in mind that although it is good it's not perfect yet. ADVC is too much hyped and that was the reason why I did not buy it. Since ADVC, DAC, Sony and miniDV analog to digital passthrough in general are not so wide spread as many may think due to cost factor it is difficult to find unbiased, free of hype opinion and test results. I've seen it in few places though, that Canopus has some confirmed trouble with color handling and that transpires here. Question is only to what degree, how typical and whwter there is a better way to do that.

What we need is most objective and unbiased , to-the-point analysis. Facts not opinions. We can all draw our conclusions from that. Since you have started that storm I'm asking you to go one step further.
Good luck.

[trevlac]

Yep, I don't doubt s-video is far superior to composite, but I would have thought nothing could beat firewire until these tests
Will

Just to be clear... y/c is mucho better than composite if your source is y/c (like dvd, svhs, satilite receiver). If your source is composite, it's all about what seperates the signal and what junk you run the signal thru.

For example, I can run my CATV into a svhs deck and out the s-video to my capture card. However, there is little (if any) difference doing this vs just pluging the cable directly into my card. Maybe if my vcr had a really good comb filter, i'd notice the difference. Maybe.

--------- COLOR BARS ---------

It looks like the ADVC bars are 100% Full EBU bars. Will's post was a test of the ATI.

The bars are alternating colors that contain either 100% or 0% of Red, Green, and Blue.

White = 100% all
Yellow = 100% RG, 0% B
Cyan = 0% R, 100% GB
Green = 0% RG, 100% G
Magenta = 100% RB, 0% G
Red = 100% R, 0% GB
Blue = 100% B, 0% RG
Black = 0% all

You may notice that the Blue alternates 100 / 0 / 100 / 0 thru all the bars.

If you view the bars thru a filter or take them into Photoshop and use "Image/Adjust/Channel Mixer" and set Red and Green to 0%, the bars will be alternating bright blue and black.

All of the blacks should be the same, all of the blues should be the same and of the same brightness. You can adjust hue/saturation/brightness/contrast to make the blues the same brightness and the same color and to keep the black black and not grey.

Here are Will's bars with the red and green removed. The cyan, magenta, and blue are not bright enough, vs the white. They also have noise due to the capture.

Here is a version of Will's ATI bars with the contrast up'd in photoshop by 20 and the brightness dropped by 10. I came up with these by experimenting with both the color bars and the ATI 'DV' pics. I think those numbers look better by making the black darker and the colors brighter in the people pics.

Here are bars from an Avia test DVD I have. There is no black bar in this run. I'd call these a standard to compare to.

Here are bars produce by my Sony miniDV. I grabbed them via firewire. The are darker than the ADVC and Avia bars. Their supposed to be 75% bright vs 100% bright. You can also see the blue bleed into the black. I used the Mainconcept DV codec to grab this pic. The sony one is what compressed the file.

Here are the Sony bars capped thru my Aver card. I left the driver Hue/sat/bri/contr values where they were at. They look good to me. Sometimes I goof with them, but it gets to be a pain. These settings might be the default of the BTwincap driver. These bars are clearly not as sharp as the firewire version. They also have other artifacts. I used morgan mjpeg.


Hope some finds this interesting.

My conclusion is that Will's ATI needs it's contrast and brightness adjusted. This of course may not be to Will's taste and it may make TV source look bad because it may already have it's white level (contrast) cranked up.

BTW: I'm just learning this stuff. My method is probably not professional and has flaws. Maybe someone can point them out.


PS: My links are a javascript work around because my web space does not allow direct links to pictures. If they do not work for you, you can just put http://pics.trevlac.us/<picname>.jpg in a browser address bar.

[indolikaa]

trevlac,

Would adjusting the Gamma control on the ATI capture software help with the issues Will is having?

I noticed my version of MMC (8.1) has a Gamma control in addition to RGB controls.

[trevlac]

@proxyx99

Will has a TRV-14 no inputs on the thing.

I'd like to see some color bars capped by the ADVC.

One of his problems seems to be the connector he uses to get the signal out of his TV.

This is a great thread.... lots of fun.

@Fulci

Do you have Eps 4&6? You selling your DVDs on ebay?

[FulciLives]

BTW: I'm just learning this stuff. My method is probably not professional and has flaws. Maybe someone can point them out.

Actually as usual this is a great post. I so wish we would get into the more technical shit like this on this here forum.

So ... let's say I hook up my DVD player to my capture card and use a test disc (I happen to have VIDEO ESSENTIALS myself) and capture the color bars I will be able to figure out "roughly" how to set my capture settings like GAMMA and SATURATION and BRIGHTNESS/CONTRAST etc. based on having a "perfect" clean signal. Basically the same way you do it for your TV.

However ... we run into problems here don't we?

A computer MONITOR displays things different than a TV with a computer monitor being 0-255 and a NTSC TV being 16-235

So how do we account for that?

And if you have a PAL TV or Japanese NTSC which uses 0.0 IRE BLACK how does that play into it if at all?

So ... We need some sort of "test disc" like VIDEO ESSENTIALS etc. for our computer monitor.

I seem to recall having an Nvidia GeForce 256 (a long long time ago) that came with a program that helped you to do this ... I wonder if there are freeware versions of stuff like that you can download etc.

But even then what about the difference between TV SCALE and PC SCALE.

Also this doesn't really help Will with the Canopus ADVC-100 since the controls for color and brightness etc. cannot be adjusted at the capture stage (as you can with the ATI or a PCI TV tuner type card) but it could help him with figuring out perhaps how to adjust those picture controls afterwards during the encoding stage using ... say ... the custom color controls in TMPGEnc.

So trevlac you are good with this shit ... figure it out!

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trevlac]

trevlac,

Would adjusting the Gamma control on the ATI capture software help with the issues Will is having?

I noticed my version of MMC (8.1) has a Gamma control in addition to RGB controls.

Watch out with questions like that. I tell you I'm not sure I know what I'm talking about. Really.

-------

Changing Gamma allows you to maintain essentialy fixed levels in the shadows and highlights while adjusting the midtones up or down. So, droppping the gamma on a 'washed out' picture will give it a richer color. This may also be a 'fix' for Will. I'm not sure he wants to fix his ATI

However, I believe TV, PC, & Mac display devices have different gamma's based upon how they physically convert a voltage signal into light. I make the assumption that the gamma for video is correct for TV viewing, and messing with it without testing on a TV may be a problem. In other words, I don't know enough to do it right. Changing the over all levels should be more streight forward. I think.....

Trev

[FulciLives]

@Fulci

Do you have Eps 4&6? You selling your DVDs on ebay?

Why I have never ever run a bootleg business for hard to find horror/cult/exploitation titles. Nope. Not me. I would never ever sell bootleg VHS/DVD on eBay or through a website or at fan conventions :P

Anyways ...

As for STAR WARS I never did convert my LaserDiscs to DVD but maybe I will. Unfortunately somewhere along the way I lost my LD of JEDI but I still have my THX THEATRICAL VERSION LaserDiscs of EPISODE 4 and EPISODE 5 (or 1 and 2 if you are "old school").

The real trick is trying to get the AC-3 audio off of those suckers but truth be told I'd be happy with PCM or 2.0 AC-3 even if it is just plain stereo but if it still has the non-digital Dolby Pro Logic still then that would be a plus but at my age ... having lived through a time when nothing was even stereo little alone surround on TV/Video ... I'm not overly impressed with surround sound ... give me clean quality MONO or normal STEREO and most importantly an EXCELLENT image and I am happy.

As for my first comment in this post I have been retired for the most part from that stuff and anways it was all a joke :P

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[indolikaa]

Hey Trev,

I've read many of your posts. And I've come to two possible conclusions.

1) You know what you are talking about, and are just too bashful to admit it.

2) Your bullshitting abilities have reached a level which no human being could ever hope to exist.

I happen to believe Number 1. I know just enough about video that what you say makes sense. Well, most of the time. For starters, you spell NTSC the same way I do. :P

.indolikaa.
NTSC for Me

And with that thought, I'm signing off for the night!

[trevlac]

A computer MONITOR displays things different than a TV with a computer monitor being 0-255 and a NTSC TV being 16-235

So how do we account for that?

Well, I stuck the test disc in my PC dvd drive and adjusted my monitor as best I could using the controls on the front and settings I can change in my video driver.

After that, I ran the disc into my card from a dvd player. However, I think this was overkill and I'm not sure it gave me good results.

Now to me, it seems that a properly adjusted monitor does not matter when working with alot of the color patterns. What is important is having a sample to compare to. If you match it, you got your card right.

The funny thing about all of this is that there are soooo many factors, not even professionals do more than get in the ballpark.

For example, your TV matters. If you adjust it, another TV will not look the same, so it the disc for your 1 TV or for general crappy TVs? Also, the light level in the room makes a big difference. Even the wall color matters. Will likes the 'bright' ATI because it matches his TV and his eyes have become desensitized to it. Your brain adjusts for you.

And if you have a PAL TV or Japanese NTSC which uses 0.0 IRE BLACK how does that play into it if at all?

I'd guess the Japanese know alot more about video than us. Have you ever poked around a Japanese website? Who wrote TMPGEnc when he was in school?

Them damb europeans are SOL! Oh, except Will

Also this doesn't really help Will with the Canopus ADVC-100 since the controls for color and brightness etc. cannot be adjusted at the capture stage (as you can with the ATI or a PCI TV tuner type card) but it could help him with figuring out perhaps how to adjust those picture controls afterwards during the encoding stage using ...

Maybe he can determin if the ADVC is ok and everything else he has is Junk. That's why I don't drink good beer. I don't wanna know.

So trevlac you are good with this shit ... figure it out!

Yes Sir! Glad your interested. Maybe I'll start ranting about capture frame size...

Don't they sleep in PA?

[proxyx99]

Seems that beyond the basic issues such as how to burn a good DVD, ABC of system transfer and encoding the only thing that is still left is quality of such. Looks like all the participants really strive to get the max out of whatever they own. True pro analysys is beyond the scope and capabilities nevertheless it is always good to share experiences. I'm tempted to post some captures from my DAC-100 vs. my DV cam (miniDV Sony DCR-PC1). Let's just agree on how do we do it.
Question: the source is DV material or mpeg2 high bit from it (interlacing)? What image capture method and resolution? What tool? I'd like to be consistent with what Will has done so far.
I seem to have some of my old test material captured via svideo-DAC and the same via iLink directly from my cam. That would give you the idea how svideo-DAC affects the picture. I'm open to suggestions.

Trevlac, good post and a lot of work. Hats off.

Don't know whether it will clear up anything but I'm willing to do that tomorrow night. The reason is not to show whats good or better, but to have some fun and learn in the process.
Seems like there are so many posts speculating about how good or bad some devices are (especially ADVC vs, DAC), that it is for the benefit of all to take some steps forward here. Independent from the outcome I have to say that nothing will make me abandon my DAC-100. Served me well so far. I have to admit that I'm doing something indecent at the moment (not what you may think...!!!) to better address the main issue of quality discussed here. Hopefully soon I'll have something more to say.

[lordsmurf]

I'd guess the Japanese know alot more about video than us. Have you ever poked around a Japanese website? Who wrote TMPGEnc when he was in school?

Thanks to world.altavista.com... yes!

Don't give them too much credit. Bill Gates started Microsoft when he was in school. Some of my friends worked on early Internet ventures when we were in high school and college (many got rich, most re-lost it later). I've been learning about video since junior high school, and I've been out of college for a while now.

[proxyx99]

Seems that beyond the basic issues such as how to burn a good DVD, ABC of system transfer and encoding the only thing that is still left is quality of such. Looks like all the participants really strive to get the max out of whatever they own. True pro analysys is beyond the scope and capabilities nevertheless it is always good to share experiences. I'm tempted to post some captures from my DAC-100 vs. my DV cam (miniDV Sony DCR-PC1). Let's just agree on how do we do it.
Question: the source is DV material or mpeg2 high bit from it (interlacing)? What image capture method and resolution? What tool? I'd like to be consistent with what Will has done so far.
I seem to have some of my old test material captured via svideo-DAC and the same via iLink directly from my cam. That would give you the idea how svideo-DAC affects the picture. I'm open to suggestions.

Trevlac, good post and a lot of work. Hats off.

Don't know whether it will clear up anything but I'm willing to do that tomorrow night. The reason is not to show whats good or better, but to have some fun and learn in the process.
Seems like there are so many posts speculating about how good or bad some devices are (especially ADVC vs, DAC), that it is for the benefit of all to take some steps forward here. Independent from the outcome I have to say that nothing will make me abandon my DAC-100. Served me well so far. I have to admit that I'm doing something indecent at the moment (not what you may think...!!!) to better address the main issue of quality discussed here. Hopefully soon I'll have something more to say.

[Will Hay]

Back to the subject. I was horrified to read about downstaires-upstaires issues. That is definitely not the way to capture and a horror when it comes to troubleshooting.

No, I now know this.

Btw. say which miniDV cam you have.

I did already, it's a Sony MiniDV TRV14.

If I may suggest: try to get the same pics from ADVC and miniDV (same as your initial post).

I can't do this.
This is the entire purpose of the thread and whilst I can see the immense benefit I'm providing (if I do say so myself) in making these comparisons please do not lose sight of my what was my initial aim...
...my initial problem, in my limited knowledege of all things video, was that I was having colour bleed with 'capturing' my TV signal and VHS tapes.
Yes, I appreciate my setup isn't ideal but I don't care, it has been created using the tools open to me as I don't have unlimited funds to practise my hobby.
Yes, I would love to buy a second VHS player with s-video connectors but I can't (you know what the season is, right?).
I can't recapture my initial pictures because that would involve the very same process of running the TV signal into the ADVC again, what is the point of that?

I would say that as opposed to your first pics I do not see anything alarming here. You cannot expect a pro grade quality of single color screens from a device that costs 250 US bucks.

I don't.

Will, if I may, please keep it simple and consistent. Too many variables here (like floor levels) are not going to help. Let's see mini DV ver. By looking at pictures so far I know what the outcome will be, but would like to see it anyway, if not too much trouble.

Look, I am perfectly happy to try as many variables as I can but please, be patient.
I don't have unlimited time and all the family are ill thsi week

What we need is most objective and unbiased , to-the-point analysis. Facts not opinions. We can all draw our conclusions from that. Since you have started that storm I'm asking you to go one step further.
Good luck.

Thank you.
I'll try my best.
Will Hay

[Will Hay]

My goodness, Fulcri, I've just read your last post!
I thought you about my age man, 30-ish
Will

[Will Hay]

Okay, the plan for the next 48 hours.

VHS Capture

I'm going to bring my JVC upstairs (no s-video connector unfortunately) and hook it up directly to...
a) the ADVC-100 and
b) the ATI Radeon

For the benefit for Fulcri I'll probably capture The Empire Strikes Back, twice.

Once using the ADVC and again with the ATI via Virtualdub at 19/20 PicVideo.
Should I capture at 704 x 576 and not 720 x 576 trevlac?

For the purpose of this excercise I'll then encode certain parts using TMPGEnc at 8000CBR and post the results.

Live TV Capture

Now I'm 99.9% sure the problem doesn't lie with the ADVC-100, I need to master the flaws I have with capturing the signal from my TV.
Assuming that once I hook up a VCR directly to the ADVC (and everything is fine, ie. no excessive colour bleed) I'll run a compsoite cable from the VHS player and input the TV signal to
a) the ADVC-100 and
b) the ATI Radeon
...........and see what happens.

Let me make one thing clear.
Bearing in mind trevlac's comments/assistance regarding all thia technical colour bar stuff, I'm pretty happy with the results I get from the ATI.
Hell, I supose if I don't solve the saturaton from my composite I can simply use the ADVC for VHS and the ATI for TV capturing.
After all, one of the main benefits of the ADVC is it's audio/video sync facility, but fingers crossed I won't run into this problem with live TV recording.

As for the colour bar option trevlac, as you can see I haven't been able to capture the colour bars wen run through the ADVC.
If anyone can help me on this I'd be very grateful.

Also, I can't seem to figure how to output any captures I've made using the ADVC back to the TV (so I can view them and see how they will effectively look once burnt to DVDr).
I'd be quite interested in doing this.
If anyone can help, again, I'd be very grateful.
Will Hay


.....If I don't post in the next 48 hours you know this bug has killed me

[Will Hay]

........Let's just agree on how do we do it.
Question: the source is DV material or mpeg2 high bit from it (interlacing)? What image capture method and resolution? What tool? I'd like to be consistent with what Will has done so far.

I hope I've at least partly answered this, let me know what else you need to ensure we're all comparing like for like.
Personally I don't want to have to use a program I'm not familiar with (bearing in mind my limited knowledge) and if you could adopt my methods I'd be more than happy.
Will

[racerxnet]

Hi trevor,

There are no VCR's with a comb filter for the fact that all maufacturers know that the end product (picture) will be displayed on the TV or in some cases the PC. So when you double the comb filter on the VCR and then the TV the degredation is even more so appearant. I explained in an earlier post on what the high end VCR's use in circuitry to eliminate color degredation. The seperation of the YC signal is going to be dependant on whether the signal is recombined as it passes thru whatever device is using the signal regarding quality. My service manuals show no filter in the tuner or amplifier schematics regarding the comb filter. I am not saying it has not been incorporated into others though. All TV's manufactured today have them.

I'll give an example here for all from my perspective of writing a program.


I take a signal from the input from a DVD using a composite source. I am going to decode in real time here in MPEG2. As the signal is streaming in to the chipset, the program needs to dichiper the information to machine code and pass it to the HD.


Composite: Y is for Yams and C is for Cabbage in this outline. We have a belt with yams and cabbage where we need to seperate the cabbage and yams from all the other information coming down the belt and write this into code . The instructions to decode what is a yam and cabbage have to do extra work to interpret this.

Svideo: Now I seperate the signal with Svideo. Or in this case the yams and cabbage are on a seperate belt.I also incorporate the capability to recognize a seperate line for yams and cabbage. Now the program does not have to seperate the YC signal and can better write pixel interpetation. There is little degredation due to filtering of yams and cabbage at the same time.

You can substitute anything else for the yams (yyuck) and cabbage (ok sometimes)......

[trevlac]

There are no VCR's with a comb filter for the fact that all maufacturers know that the end product (picture) will be displayed on the TV or in some cases the PC. So when you double the comb filter on the VCR and then the TV the degredation is even more so appearant.

MAK,

When I said VCR, I ment s-vhs vcr. AKA CATV-->SVHS-->s-video-->TV. No comb filter needed in the TV here.

What you say above is exactly why going CATV-->(seperate)-->y/c-->(combine)RCA-->(seperate)y/c-->TV is not a good thing. This may happen in the active signal path you control or even be in the source signal. So y/c is not always better, but when it is, it's great!

Yummy yams and cabbage..... I like it.

Actually, when I tested my CX 10-bit card, I was very surprized that I did not see an improvement in the color seperation. On some further (limited unscientific) testing, I noticed my svhs dec (with a comb filter) also didn't do much better than my BT878 card. The BT878 is supposed to use a notch filter. Maybe my test material is so band limited, there is no difference. Damb cable company!



@Will

I must commend you. You have created an excellent thread. They hardly ever get this long unless it's a big pissing match.

Can I post samples too? I have 2 DV devices (cams). A really cheap sharp, and a not so cheap (but old) sony. What's the test source? Do I need to run out and let a VHS copy of StarWars5?

[rhegedus]

Seems that beyond the basic issues such as how to burn a good DVD, ABC of system transfer and encoding the only thing that is still left is quality of such.

So true - DVD2One made things a lot easier for everyone, but also 'dumbed down' the quality of threads.

Also, I can't seem to figure how to output any captures I've made using the ADVC back to the TV (so I can view them and see how they will effectively look once burnt to DVDr).

I think you need a different firewire cable i.e. needs to go into the lerger of the two on the Canopus for output from PC.

[racerxnet]

Trev,

You and I would not know how the actual signal processing is handled unless we had the spec sheet on the hardware and the code for the software. You could reverse engineer the stuff, but who has the time for single application/curiosity sake. I could measure the output and test using test disks like you, which I already have with the scope. But, it does not tell me how or what has happened within the hardware chipset regarding signal processing. This is where it counts most.

[trevlac]

You are absolutely correct. You never know until you test, and even then be careful with the conclusions you draw.

Hell my JVC HRS3911U may have a low pass filter as far as I know. I hope not. They do advertise the models above as having 3d comb filters.

Here is a link to the specs on the BT878. The driver source is also out there....

Here is a description of the chip in my MSI card. They say it has a "Adaptive multi-line 2-D comb filter". I also have more detail specs if you want them. The bastards who wrote the driver may not have used the comb filter functionality. May be my problem....

I like to say "you never know until you test" seems to have held true for me. I try to keep from spouting off about things I read, and drawing conclusions too far from my experience. It's hard you know. A bad habbit of many of our friends here.

[Will Hay]

Okay, I don't have a lot of time here, but I've hooked up my JVC to the ADVC-100 and the examples following are a marked improvement on the former proceedure.


Please bear in mind they're taken from a (pretty good quality) VHS tape, so aren't goingto be anything like the pictures I posted of the MiniDV footage.
But don't have to tell you experts that, do I?

However, can you believe my VCR doesn't have compsoites out?
What kind of shit is that?

Plus, it has two scart leads, one in/out and the other in only, which means I can't watch the footage on the TV at the same time as I 'capture' it to the PC (and ultimately compare as I 'capture').
Bastard thing.

So, I've had to stick one of my 'scart to composite' adapters in, and run the composite leads from there into the ADVC.

You'll notice there is a definate tinge of red still, but I'm leaning more and more towards the fact that this is a result of the shitty scart adapter I'm been forced to use.

More later.
Will

[Will Hay]

The last one looked very red anyway, although Fulcri, our resident Star Wars expert, might be able to confirm this

I'm of the firm belief my scart to composite adapter is to blame.
Will

[rcb]

Will -
Also agree with your thinking on the scart being a major culprit.

I've got an advc 100 and for the past week have been cappin a series of analog tapes thru my vcr with component leads. Tapes were shot by my daughter - typical home stuff and a number of scenes with red items (xmas lights, baby faces, etc.).
Having been monitering the caps and then following this thread, I actually started to look for red shift.
After some 20 hrs of capping, can honestly say that I haven't seen anything close to a red shift like that which shows up in your setup/examples.
Sure hope you can soon beg/borrow a decent vcr with component out jacks and maybe put the question to rest.

[racerxnet]

Interesting Will,

regarding the vcr not having a composite out. I assume this means you have a RCA out (coax). Do all European TV's use a scart adapter? How about another TV with the appropriate input/output from Santa? HO HO HO HO

I did a search some time ago regarding cable lenghts vs signal degredation. Unless you are sending BIT information (digital-spdif) you should try to keep the lenghts as short as possible. I had mentioned this in the past post, but to rehash, keep them under 12ft or 4 meters. Remember, you are supplying an analog signal to the tv as well as from the VRC. I would not run extended cable lenghts with my Belle's/Bryston amps as well as to the speakers in fear of signal loss and interference.

A little tip for you purists out there.

I use ferrite cores on the power cords of the DVD, Amps, and VCR, as well as the cabling inside my PC to help with the interference. They can be used as well on the input output of your cable system for the cleanest signal possible. Do a google search if you are interested. They are cheap. You can get them at Radio Shack.

[FOO]

racer , have no fear of running audio anywhere.
Audio is 20Khz and video is 4 MHz a ratio of 200:1

[racerxnet]

Hey Foo,

Thanks for the info.

You are absolutely right, but, I do not want the Bi amped speakers 40 ft from center of the amps. Cable is expensive and I'm cheap as hell. Thats why I bought the VCR for $20.00!!!!! (another thread regarding this)

[Will Hay]

There's £20 ($35-ish) off a JVC S-Video VHS recorder at the local store.
Might have a wander down tomorrow, although I'd like to know for sure it is the adapter.
Hmm, the chances of me knowing someone with a VCR with S-video is remote, but I think I'll make some calls
Will





I've just realised this new black (infra-red) keyboard I have doesn't have a light for caps on/off.
Am I destined to buy nothing but utter crap?

[Will Hay]

Sure hope you can soon beg/borrow a decent vcr with component out jacks and maybe put the question to rest.

What, you sick of the thread already?
Will

[Will Hay]

One other question...
..if I do plump for an new VCR (with s-video out), will I be able to output the live TV signal and record via the Canopus?
oR WILL THE S-VIDEO ONLY OUTPUT WHATEVER IS PLAYING ON THE vcr?




Shit, damn this keyboard
Will