ADVC-100 vs ATI Radeon - Screenshots

[FulciLives]

Here is a comparison I just did of the star.
Will

*IMAGE DELETED*

OK well now this is a slightly different story now isn't it?

Not only is the difference of the new STAR pictures not as dramatic but if you ask me the CANOPUS image looks better in that the RED looks RED (looks ever-so-slightly PINK to me on the ATI pic) and the detail in the white area (to the RIGHT of the STAR) actually looks better.

Oh wait ... I'm slightly color blind in my left eye. Now when I look at it with JUST my right eye the color of the ATI looks slightly better whereas the CANOPUS looks slightly too dark but still a decent shade of red. Damn ******* colorblinded bullshit.

Still think the CANOPUS image has slightly more detail in the big white area.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[thing914]

I think what they are asking for with the color bars is this. You hit the button for about 3 seconds like the manual says and the unit will generate color bars and put out on the output ports on back of the ADVC.

So you want to hook cables from those output ports back around to the input ports, in theory you should then get them over the firewire and capture to the computer. This would be the colorbars processes through the ADVC. I've never done this so don't know if it will actually work but should. I've got the output hooked to my tv and seen the colorbars there while still seeing the cablebox inputs going through my ADVC and on to the pc.

You could then hook the output through your capture card and do another capture and compare.

[rhegedus]

Another spanner in the works is this:



Produced by changing the gama correction with PSP7. Seems to show what was originally suspected - the AIW captures a bit brighter (bleached?) making it appear to have less colour bleed.

[FOO]

Damn ******* colorblinded bullshit.

Hey , it could be worse , you could have brain damage like me

[FulciLives]

Damn ******* colorblinded bullshit.

Hey , it could be worse , you could have brain damage like me

I'm afraid to imagine what goes on in your mind FOO :P

I really hate my eyes. It's like the tint is off on both of them. The left eye sees everything with the tint towards "red" whereas the right eyes sees everything with the tint towards "green" ... I'm not sure which one if either is 100% correct.

Also my left eye sees everything darker than the right eye ... or is it that my right eye sees everything brigher than the left eye?

Hmmm ... maybe my left eye is CANOPUS and my right eye is ATI

I don't think I'd like to take that replicant BLADERUNNER test myself.

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Will Hay]

Hmmm ... maybe my left eye is CANOPUS and my right eye is ATI

[rhegedus]

I don't think I'd like to take that replicant BLADERUNNER test myself.

You don't have to - jst go to the opticians or your doctor and have a test with some Ishihara plates.

[Will Hay]

I think what they are asking for with the color bars is this. You hit the button for about 3 seconds like the manual says and the unit will generate color bars and put out on the output ports on back of the ADVC.

So you want to hook cables from those output ports back around to the input ports, in theory you should then get them over the firewire and capture to the computer. This would be the colorbars processes through the ADVC. I've never done this so don't know if it will actually work but should. I've got the output hooked to my tv and seen the colorbars there while still seeing the cablebox inputs going through my ADVC and on to the pc.

You could then hook the output through your capture card and do another capture and compare.

Okay, the output of the ADVC didn't work when I put it into the front of the ADVC, so I've run the output into the ATI Radeon and come up with this (it's saved as an .jpg, is this correct):

[Will Hay]

I should encode them all with TMPGEnc right (8000CBR)?
Or should I/can I take screenshots of the initial avi's?
Will

I say initial avi's. Why throw mpeg in the problem. Also, am I gonna get my color bars? And if you keep posting pics, can you give us some skin shots ?

I couldn't take snapshots of avi's (at the same point each time) soI've encoded to mpeg2 8000CBR.
Will be ten minutes or so, stand by...
Will

[rhegedus]

I can't test it right now, but I think you can get the colour bars from the Canopus straight to the PC by holding down the selector while switching on - and then capture whilst holding the selector.

You might need 3 hands.

[FulciLives]

I don't think I'd like to take that replicant BLADERUNNER test myself.

You don't have to - jst go to the opticians or your doctor and have a test with some Ishihara plates.

Don't want to get too off-topic here as this thread is great stuff (and getting better as Will posts more pics) but yeah I've had those Ishihara plates done on me and I'm lucky if I can PICK OUT the number half of the time.

Looking at the pics on the front page of that website link (the two at the very bottom) I see shit on the left hand side image (it says I should be seeing a number 5 in the image and even knowing that I can't see it) and the right hand side image looks like a 3 but should look like an 8 if my eyes were "color normal". So based on that I have "anomalous red/green colour perception"

Whatever the hell that means.

Interestingly enough the left hand image looks like the dominate color is RED (with just a hint of green spots) when I look at it with JUST my LEFT eye BUT looks like the dominate color is GREEN (with no hint of RED) when I look at it with just my RIGHT eye.

Guess I'll never get a job as a color specialist hehehe

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[trevlac]

Well, since it's kinda hard to compare only 1 shot, .... my test ideas are having a little trouble here.

Oh, an by the way, the bars are not SMPTE, I'm not sure how much one can tell. I'll post my WAGs. One should be able to tell if the hue and staturation are off by viewing on a properly adjusted monitor thru a blue filter. I believe the white is supposed to be only 75% white so it looks cranked up. I assume the jpeg looks the same as what you view on your monitor.

And since we are doing pics, here's the secret message to Fulci.

[Will Hay]

Don't want to get too off-topic here as this thread is great stuff...and getting better as Will posts more pics....

Well in that case you're gonna love the next ones
Will

[FulciLives]

And since we are doing pics, here's the secret message to Fulci.
*** IMAGE DELETED ***

Ummm ... Looks like a bunch of pretty colors. I'm told there is a number 5 in there somewhere but I'll vote on "a bunch of pretty colors" since that's all I see hehehe

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[rhegedus]

Well, the simplest way to compare captures with the original would be to rip a DVD (preferably less than 4.3Gb to avoid compression) and re-burn to DVD, then do captures from the DVD stream and compare to the original rip.

I'll try over the w/e.

[trevlac]

Ummm ... Looks like a bunch of pretty colors. I'm told there is a number 5 in there somewhere ....

The eyes are the first thing that you have to destroy ... because they have seen too many bad things.

[Will Hay]

Okay, as I mentioned (above) the next shots are as follows (and I beleive the best test yet as the source is flawless):

Pictures marked ADVC

This is my Sony MiniDV footage run through the ADVC-100 via the composite inputs on the front of the Canopus Unit, 'captured' using Pinnacle Studio 8.10 (using the only available codec; 'DV Encoder')

Pictures marked Firewire

This is my Sony MiniDV footage run through my Adaptect firewire card, 'captured' using Pinnacle Studio 8.10 (using the only available codec; 'DV Encoder')

Pictures marked Virtualdub

This is my Sony MiniDV footage run through my AI Radeon 64mb DDR ViVo, captured using (the superb) Virtualdub at quality setting 19/20 (PicVideo MJPEG codec ~ 720 x 576).

Your opinion is eagerly awaited
Will

Nb. The pictures are rather large so I've uplaoded them to my own webspace.
Sorry if you have a slow connection

[Will Hay]

Pictures marked ADVC

This is my Sony MiniDV footage run through the ADVC-100 via the composite inputs on the front of the Canopus Unit, 'captured' using Pinnacle Studio 8.10 (using the only available codec; 'DV Encoder')

Pictures marked Firewire

This is my Sony MiniDV footage run through my Adaptect firewire card, 'captured' using Pinnacle Studio 8.10 (using the only available codec; 'DV Encoder')

Pictures marked Virtualdub

This is my Sony MiniDV footage run through my AI Radeon 64mb DDR ViVo, captured using (the superb) Virtualdub at quality setting 19/20 (PicVideo MJPEG codec ~ 720 x 576).

[rhegedus]

I'm told there is a number 5 in there somewhere but I'll vote on "a bunch of pretty colors" since that's all I see hehehe

I think it's the number of beers needed before the whole DV codec thing begins to make sense..............

[Will Hay]

......my son with his grandparents by the way, earlier this year!

[tim254]

I also have an ADVC-100 and at first I was dissapointed with the captures. I had color and darkness issues. I had the color issues with TMPGEnc so I tried Canopus Procoder (demo) and the conversion was perfect. They have a new cheaper version called Procoder Express which should do the job for you. I suggest that you at least test the demo of Procoder and compare it to your TMPGEnc encodes and I think you'll be surprised.

The darkness issue is not really an issue because when you view your video on your TV, it will be brighter. I didn't realized how much brighter my TV was until I viewed my captures on my monitor and TV simultaneously (Matrox G450 TV Out).

I capture with Scenalyzer Live "Type2 DV-AVI file" so I can edit them in virtual dub (direct stream copy). If you do it this way, you don't recompress them using another DV Codec, it stays in it's original codec (Canopus).

[Will Hay]

Are those last pictures too big, should I reduce them for easier veiwing on the (colourblind) eye?
Will

[rhegedus]

......my son with his grandparents by the way, earlier this year!

Lovely kid! I was expecting the Leeds strip on him

[rhegedus]

Nah, pics are fine - just viewing them blown up in PSP.

First impressions: firewire looks less sharp than the other two, and the Canopus colours look more vibrant - VirtualDub capture looks slightly paler/washed out.

I might have had some doubts with the other shots you posted, but I'm with the Canopus on this one.

[Will Hay]

......my son with his grandparents by the way, earlier this year!

Lovely kid! I was expecting the Leeds strip on him

.........he's only four months old in that shot, the kit was a gift from a pal
Will

[FulciLives]

Well now that we have found out that my eyes are for shit since I'm color blind I will give my opinion (however worthless) of the new images Will just posted

I'm having a really hard time seeing a difference between the ADVC pics and the FIREWIRE pics. They look very nearly identical to me.

The ATI does look different though. It appears to be brighter (almost too bright ... though this was shot outside in daylight).

Looking more close just now I get the "sense" that maybe the ADVC pics have a "hint" more saturation than the FIREWIRE capture. I don't know if that is my mind playing tricks on me or not. If the ADVC is more saturated in color then it is by a VERY small amount. Again the ADVC and FIREWIRE pics look pretty much identical to me.

As for as these pics go I don't like the ATI pics. They look too bright. Lack of contrast I'd say more than the "brightness" being too high.

Curious what you non color blinded people think

- John "FulciLives" Coleman

[Will Hay]

Yep, same here...
....there's nothing in the ADVC and Firewire shots, and that sure is impressive.
The ATI is sure the weaker of the three shots (but not by a huge amount).
The next test for me is hooking up a VCR directly to the ATI and ADVC-100, but I won't be able to do that for a day or so.
If the Canopus is the better of the two then it's clearly an issue of either my TV or the cables/scart adapters.
Will

[trevlac]

The colors are better on the ADVC.

The ATI is washed out.

The bleed is there for both the sony and the ADVC. I think that is due to the DV codec on your machine. If it was DV in general, it would show on the ATI. If it was only the ADVC encoding, it would not show as a problem for the sony.

Here's a test. Play the Sony analog out on your TV. Does the yellow bleed in the trike? Too bad you can't even go DV-In. Damb the politicians! You know, I think people hack these to get the function back.

[racerxnet]

Hi Will,

Just thought to ask you if you had done an A-B comparison with your composite and Svideo cables. I had done this recently just to see the effects of reproduction on the TV screen. It could be done just as easily while viewing the image on your monitor. I ask this because you are still using a composite cable. In my comparisons, I used the inputs of my TV which are both composite and Svideo. I took the output from the DVD player (both composite and Svideo) and connected both cables to the input of both respective connections on the TV. There was a straight lead from the DVD without any other breakout box or connector to the TV. From there I selected the source on the TV to look at the A-B comparison. I can tell you without a doubt that the composite source looked much more red in color and saturation overall. I did this also with a recorded SVHS movie recorded from a DVD to do another A-B comparison of seperating the YC signal from the VCR deck to the TV. Same results were appearant when viewed from the selectable input source of Svideo or composite. Svidoe was brighter, less color saturation, and overall better at the Svideo capabilities of 400 lines.

I am not exactly sure of your Scart connector with the input/output capabilities . I have never used one. But, I suggest that you might try the straight cable compairison in your input/output connections without mixing cable types.

Hope you resolve the issue.

[ovs27]

just thought I'd make an observation, if you look at the 2nd set of pics and look at your son's hair it is more detailed in the Canopus shot than in the Firewire so there looks to be a slight bit of difference between the two

and great thread btw